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Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)


Toro

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Poorly executed onerous efforts to save minuscule amounts of money when the real elephants in the room continue to smash the furniture and walls

So, sidebar, one of my Chiefs went to the base pool to get a workout (he's a PJ) but the 18 year old girl there told him he couldn't go in because he must have let his membership expire. Surprised, he asked her what on God's green earth she was talking about, it's the base pool. He is military, even has swimming in his PT test for Heaven's sake! She said that things were getting tight, and the base couldn't afford it... The cable, forty tvs that were all on the same news channel, and the three services Airmen sitting at the front counter sucking their thumbs were all mission essential though!

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The irony.  Promo boards never see the FEF!  And many of those deployment Q3s were viewed as spiteful by the home unit, so... those just make for interesting airline interview stories.

SWA inteviewer: TMA your Q3. 

Dude: I wore a baseball cap while flying troops from A to B.  Commander Douche saw it and didn't like it. 

SWA: Yeah, what a douche.  Say, what was his name so we can blackball it?

Out

 

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Since they are offering ACP out to 20 years for all pilots now, does anyone know if they are considering extending this option to those coming up on the end of their 5 year commitment who didn't have the same 20 year option?(The folks that signed up in FY11, 12, 13)

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20 minutes ago, Jaded said:

Doubt it. Why would they? You're not going anywhere.

Pretty much.  Big Blue is obviously lacking in many facets, but one thing they'll never fuck up is knowing when they have someone by the balls.

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Since they are offering ACP out to 20 years for all pilots now, does anyone know if they are considering extending this option to those coming up on the end of their 5 year commitment who didn't have the same 20 year option?(The folks that signed up in FY11, 12, 13)

Not sure about signing up after completion of a five year contract, but I did notice that the offer for "all pilots" (removing the TIS limit) paid $15K/year versus the standard $25K. Not enough, in my opinion.

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Doubt it. Why would they? You're not going anywhere.

That's what I figured as well....

But if the logic says you aren't going anywhere after 5 years of bonus pay, then why are they offering up to 9 years now versus sticking with the old 5 year construct?

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8 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

Some places use the Q3 like an LOR.

Any home-station CC worth the title would (a) call the deployed commander and tell him he's a douche and (b) accidentally misplace the Form 8 so that it regrettably could not be included in the FEF going forward....

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The NDAA only allows $25k/yr currently, so a longer contract is the only way to offer a greater financial incentive.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, GoNiners said:

That's what I figured as well....

But if the logic says you aren't going anywhere after 5 years of bonus pay, then why are they offering up to 9 years now versus sticking with the old 5 year construct?

Because the jig is up and people are seeing through all the smoke and mirrors.  Most people see little to no value in signing for 5 years just to have Big Blue yank the rug from underneath you once your contract is up with 17 years TIS.  At least offering $25k/yr and a "guaranteed" retirement sweetens the pot a little bit for those on the fence.

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Some places use the Q3 like an LOR.

Any home-station CC worth the title would (a) call the deployed commander and tell him he's a douche and (b) accidentally misplace the Form 8 so that it regrettably could not be included in the FEF going forward....

No, we'd never do that. You'd be hard pressed to find a CC with large enough testicles to do that.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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12 hours ago, Gazmo said:

No, we'd never do that. You'd be hard pressed to find a CC with large enough testicles to do that.

Uncommon, no doubt--but, I was fortunate enough to have just such a CC back in the day.  It wasn't me in the hot seat, but a fellow pilot & crew was in the spotlight for something they were being threatened with total BS Q-3s for; our CC told the OG point-blank (I was in the room) that any such Form 8 would never make it into the members' FEFs so long as he was commanding the squadron.

My respect for the man went way up, and I filed it for future reference (fortunately, never used).  I just wish the mid-level captain I was at the time had had enough savvy to realize just how rare this was....

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Question for the old guys:

 

In 99-01 the take rate averaged in the mid 30%s... how does the culture and complaints then compare to now? Same gripes? It seems that bonus take rate is directly proportional to airline hiring, but were people this bitter and jaded too? Has it gotten worse, or is this just history repeating itself?

 

This Duffel Blog article always makes me laugh: http://www.duffelblog.com/2015/04/jcs-dont-care-youre-resigning/

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Question for the old guys:

 

In 99-01 the take rate averaged in the mid 30%s... how does the culture and complaints then compare to now? Same gripes? It seems that bonus take rate is directly proportional to airline hiring, but were people this bitter and jaded too? Has it gotten worse, or is this just history repeating itself?

 

This Duffel Blog article always makes me laugh: http://www.duffelblog.com/2015/04/jcs-dont-care-youre-resigning/

I really don't think the ops tempo and climate was as bad then as it is now, but I could be mistaken.

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This Duffel Blog article always makes me laugh: http://www.duffelblog.com/2015/04/jcs-dont-care-youre-resigning/

The satire was almost too subtle. Good thing it was on Duffleblog, otherwise a lot of people wouldn't get it

It has never been easier to publish a scholarly article on the profession of arms, whether in one of our many journals or on any one of numerous military blogs. All of you managed to find venues to publish your resignation letters talking about all the great ideas you couldn’t find ways to circulate. None of us can figure out why you couldn’t just publish your actual ideas instead.

Love it.

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Anyone have a staffer friend?! Like on any of the subcommittees working the NDAA....perhaps drop a hint. BRO-net!?

JK...this isn't how any of that works. Does anyone know btw?* (sarcasm)

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On 1/30/2016 at 9:38 AM, xaarman said:

Question for the old guys:

 

In 99-01 the take rate averaged in the mid 30%s... how does the culture and complaints then compare to now? Same gripes? It seems that bonus take rate is directly proportional to airline hiring, but were people this bitter and jaded too? Has it gotten worse, or is this just history repeating itself?

 

This Duffel Blog article always makes me laugh: http://www.duffelblog.com/2015/04/jcs-dont-care-youre-resigning/

The only thing that saved the Air Force from the late 1990's low bonus take rate was 9/11, the airlines stopped hiring and there was an obvious rise in patriotism. 

IMHO today is a perfect storm of intense hiring pressure from the airlines (partially do to increased demand but also a function of age 65 retirement kicking in), combined with a force that is fed up with the relentless ops tempo and constant trips to the desert. 

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30 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

IMHO today is a perfect storm of intense hiring pressure from the airlines (partially do to increased demand but also a function of age 65 retirement kicking in), combined with a force that is fed up with the relentless ops tempo and constant trips to the desert. 

You left off all the additional duty bullshit, makework queep, the Social Justice Warriors running rampant, nauseating careerism, and the abuse/mismanagement of the pilot career field.

Active Duty is so fucked, yet it was all so preventable.  

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On January 30, 2016 at 10:38 AM, xaarman said:

In 99-01 the take rate averaged in the mid 30%s... how does the culture and complaints then compare to now? Same gripes? It seems that bonus take rate is directly proportional to airline hiring, but were people this bitter and jaded too? Has it gotten worse, or is this just history repeating itself?

 

Probably helped that the AF actually had more reasonable manning, while the requirements were less: 

- FY 99: 70k officers/286k enlisted/356k total

- FY 15: 61k officers/246k enlisted/307k total

Aside from surges like Allied Force, the deployment rate was reasonable (ONW & OSW), and there were some pretty sweet deals out there (C-21 fleet was twice as big then and had some great locations, for instance). RPAs existed, but there were nowhere near as big of a thing as they are now. In the SUPT squadrons & ops flying squadrons, my experience in the latter part of the 90s was that the older heads had genuinely enjoyed their flying careers & were getting out because of the even better opportunities on the outside, rather than trying to get away from the suck which is the AD today. I don't recall any SUPT or Altus IPs in the late 90s who vol'd to teach at Laughlin to get away from the ops tempo in their MDS. In later years, I knew lots of guys willing to go to Laughlin or Altus to get away from the soul-crushing tempo.

TT

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