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Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)


Toro

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Two words: lifetime annuity.

That is why people sign the bonus. I'm paid six figures to fly (and do lots of other stupid stuff--see: What's wrong with the AF thread), I've already done a 365, and I get free health care.

By time I can get out all my friends who were hired by airlines in the past 24 months will be excellent internal recs for me (I hope).

I'm a path-of-least-resistance kind of guy.

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So.. are you offered the ACP every year if you don't take it the first year available?  It's not a single offer to your year group?

 

Thanks.

For my year group the first year eligible was offered at $25k/5 years and if you didn't take it that year you could later sign up for $15/3 years. I know people who didn't take the initial offer and took the $45k after getting a school slot. I'll happily keep my $125k.

All number before taxes.

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There's also currently the early eligible and then initial eligible.  Early basically means you sign the bonus before your ADSC is up and then you start getting paid once your ADSC expires.  Best deal for you if you know 100% that you're in for 20.  The initial eligible is the FY that your ADSC expires, which means you could be a free agent (thus not getting any extra money) between the day your ADSC expires until the bonus is released and they process your paperwork.

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That's so.. strange.  Does the early eligible get more money?  You'd think they'd throw more at the on the fence/more experienced (even if only a year) guys who didn't take the other ones.  

 

I guess more people could wait it out then for more cash.. but you'd get an easy crop for 365's and the like.  Unless I'm thinking stupid, which is always possible.

 

Thanks for the info!

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That's so.. strange.  Does the early eligible get more money?  You'd think they'd throw more at the on the fence/more experienced (even if only a year) guys who didn't take the other ones.  

 

I guess more people could wait it out then for more cash.. but you'd get an easy crop for 365's and the like.  Unless I'm thinking stupid, which is always possible.

 

Thanks for the info!

You only get more money if you are taking the "9" (long bonus) year bonus instead of the five (short bonus). The short bonus is five years from signing. So you get $125k no matter what. The long bonus is until 20 years of aviation service. Depending on when AFPC gets the bonus out and how long the process takes, it could be 6-12 months between your initial ADSC ending and starting the bonus (either one). By doing the early eligible program you avoid this delay and your new commitment starts immediately after your initial ADSC expires.

For the short bonus that means taking the early option will reduce your mandatory AD time by whatever the processing delay is for the on-time bonus. But since damn near everyone who takes the short bonus stays until retirement, this isn't as big a deal.

For the long bonus your earliest retirement date won't change since it is based on when you started flying, not a set time after signing the bonus paperwork. But by signing early your bonus starts immediately after the initial ADSC ends, instead of 6-12 months later, and you get bonus money for those months.

So TL;DR: For the short bonus, early eligibles can get an earlier separation date. For the long bonus, early eligibles get more money.

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  • 3 weeks later...

 

So you think the guy who is the mission commander for a 100 aircraft, led the planning and/or the actual mission execution isn't utilizing multiple types of leadership skills?  This is MDS agnostic, but being a mission commander (100 was a large example, but the point still stands for the guy running 20-30 assets) in training and combat is a huge leadership role and by far shadows a lot of other "leadership" roles out there.  Budha made great points above.

Absolutely. My point isn't that flying is devoid of any leadership, but that the idea that what makes one a great leader at the tactical level necessarily translates to being great at the organizational level, is flawed. 

Look at Welsh. Seemingly a great leader at the wing-and-below level (according to others, I was not around in those days), but not making a huge dent at the top.

Sure, I'd love to have AF leaders from the squadron up who are shit-hot in the jet and organizational wizards. I'd choose that guy ten out of ten. But wherever they are, we can't seem to find them. And the military system of job-jumping and hole-filling doesn't lend itself to identifying and positioning those officers who have the skills and experience to manage massive organizations. There's a reason airlines aren't run by pilots and sports teams aren't run by the best athletes. Of course, we like to argue that the military is too different to the civilian world to compare, but the pilots that lead the AF have to deal with cyber, maintenance, acquisitions, space, finance, etc. All areas which they are not tactical experts. 

I think a squadron commander of a flying squadron should be a flying expert, because the squadron is narrowly focused on that task, and it matters to the majority of the people under him/her. I'd rather have my Group/Wing and above leadership allow me to focus on being a flying expert while they deal with the actual purpose of their position. 

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This seems pertinent - 

Why ‘Charity vs. Selfishness’ should replace the ‘Management vs. Leadership’ dichotomy in our thinking about leaders.

 

https://medium.com/the-bridge/the-three-streams-of-leadership-d76c13d18538

 

Not Related to the thread but to the link posted. I would highly recommend The Strategy Bride (linked above), Military Writers Guild and Defense Entrepreneurs Conference as some great sources of current events, military strategy and leadership. It is an amazing group (of which I'm a member) of military members and civilians that are trying to change things on the ground floor and having some success at it. Check out the link below from the Economist, the group mentioned used by Col. Starr is from the DEF Conference.

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21665008-department-defence-can-neither-close-bases-nor-keep-them-working-catch-2015?fsrc=scn%2Ffb%2Fte%2Fpe%2Fed%2Fcatch2015

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  • 2 weeks later...

It's 30 Sep, so thought I'd update everyone really quickly:

FY15 initial pilot take rate = 55.2% (slightly better than last year's 53%, but force management was also in effect last FY)

-- According to last year's report, the take rate would have been 59% without force management. Also, don't forget many folks were given the 20YAS option that wasn't offered to many in the prior FY 

FY15 early pilot take rate = 29% (significantly less than last year's 38% early take rate)

-- This seems an early indicator that take rates will really suck next year

The two communities with the lowest take rates are: Fighter (47.8%) and C2ISR (55.3%)

-- The two communities with the lowest early take rates are: Bomber (17.6%) and Fighter (19.6%)

-- Bottom line, the retention outlook looks really bad for the CAF, but realistically is pretty bad across the board. 

Maybe a whole lotta folks are furiously working their computers and signing the bonus as I write this, and the numbers will significantly change. I suspect not.  

TT

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That, and/or the unfortunate perception that getting civilian flying jobs is difficult without significant fixed wing time.

Funny--all (yes all) of my helo buddies who have separated or retired have found civilian flying jobs who wanted one.  There's more than just the airlines/cargo carriers.  

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Not sure if this belongs here or if we should start a Modernized Retirement thread...

Anyone seen the particulars of the 5% TSP match and retention payments at 12 years of service? Payments are current base pay X 2.5 + base pay X a # of months determined by the secretary. This added to the pilot bonus may make me rethink future plans.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Not sure if this belongs here or if we should start a Modernized Retirement thread...

Anyone seen the particulars of the 5% TSP match and retention payments at 12 years of service? Payments are current base pay X 2.5 + base pay X a # of months determined by the secretary. This added to the pilot bonus may make me rethink future plans.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My understanding is that the retention payments would replace all career specific bonuses, but they might have changed it.

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My understanding is that the retention payments would replace all career specific bonuses, but they might have changed it.

Figures, why would they do anything that might actually help retain people?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  • 4 weeks later...

Final numbers have been posted...55% take rate. They also have the end of year report up if you want to read it.

 

What's alarming (to everyone but Big Blue...nothing to see here) is the fact that the overall pilot loss rate was 61.7%, with almost 71% of eligible mobility pilots leaving (if I'm reading that right). This also leaves the mobility pilot force the youngest out of all the types. What could possibly go wrong?

Edit: I think the percentages of pilots leaving is based upon those eligible to leave during that FY.

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Final numbers have been posted...55% take rate. They also have the end of year report up if you want to read it.

 

What's alarming (to everyone but Big Blue...nothing to see here) is the fact that the overall pilot loss rate was 61.7%, with almost 71% of eligible mobility pilots leaving (if I'm reading that right). This also leaves the mobility pilot force the youngest out of all the types. What could possibly go wrong?

Where is this posted?  Thanks..

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Final numbers have been posted...55% take rate. They also have the end of year report up if you want to read it.

What's alarming (to everyone but Big Blue...nothing to see here) is the fact that the overall pilot loss rate was 61.7%, with almost 71% of eligible mobility pilots leaving (if I'm reading that right). This also leaves the mobility pilot force the youngest out of all the types. What could possibly go wrong?

Edit: I think the percentages of pilots leaving is based upon those eligible to leave during that FY.

A few notes from the final ARP report that seem interesting:

- It doesn't mention the fact that overall take rate decreased significantly from last year (59% in FY14 to 55% in FY15), despite lots more money being thrown at the problem. In FY14, only fighter bubbas were offered the 20 YAS ($225k) option, whereas this year all pilots were. 

- It makes no mention of the fact that the early take rate was significantly lower this year--28.9% (217/751) than it was last year--38.0% (283/745. This would seem a leading indicator of even-lower final take rates next year 

- Separations were way up as well; there were 73 normal separations out of 82 total separations in FY15--the last time this number was so high was in '99/'00 during the last big airline hiring boom

- On an optimistic note, the 71% loss rate among eligible mobility pilots was a marked improvement from the previous year. In FY14, it was 101% (due to force shaping, I'm sure)

Can't wait to see what the rated force managers do with the bonus next year. 

TT

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Can't wait to see what the rated force managers do with the bonus next year. 

TT

I think the writing is on the wall ( i.e. The 2016 NDAA). My prediction is bonus goes up to $35K for RPA drivers, stays the same for everyone else. Maybe they delete the 16 year TIS restriction for early/initial eligibles, but I doubt it. Maybe they increase opportunities/amounts for uncommitted eligibles. They are currently processing 15 ETP packages for ineligible pilots requesting the bonus. I do not know if this is normal or not, nor if there is a precedent for approving bonus related policy exceptions, so I can't say if the outcome of those ETPs will have any impact on next year's policy.

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I know a guy (11U) who got his ETP approved a few months ago, so the precedent is there.

Not sure how that's possible since AFPC doesn't even send them up the chain until after the end of the FY and all eligible applications have been processed (they just sent them up late this week). It may have been sent up by his leadership, but nothing has been approved by HAF/A1P.

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