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CSAR-X


craino21

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Yep, the AF can still screw it away. This gets us a couple DT birds and maybe a quarter of the money needed to do the development. I wouldn't count out anything at this point, other than it seems there is congressional support to keep a dedicated Rescue mission in the Air Force.

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Yep, the AF can still screw it away. This gets us a couple DT birds and maybe a quarter of the money needed to do the development. I wouldn't count out anything at this point, other than it seems there is congressional support to keep a dedicated Rescue mission in the Air Force.

If the funding isn't there for FY15, then the program doesn't continue on schedule, even with the $300+ million for FY14. We should find out in mid/late Spring is my guess.

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  • 1 month later...

Sikorsky awarded $15 billion contract* for new CRH.

I'm assuming these will be new-build -60s with moderate bells and whistles; details of the aircraft are pretty much nonexistent in the article...

* subject to budgetary/sequestration whims, of course.

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Sikorsky awarded $15 billion contract* for new CRH.

I'm assuming these will be new-build -60s with moderate bells and whistles; details of the aircraft are pretty much nonexistent in the article...

* subject to budgetary/sequestration whims, of course.

I know you put your asterisk comment, but just to reiterate, nothing has been awarded as of yet as the Milestone B Decision has to be officially made, which must be done prior to contract award.

As for the actual aircraft, the 160th SOAR is already flying MH-60M models...my bet is that it will be similar to that design, just finely tailored for the Air Force and its PR mission.

I think we'll know for sure here pretty soon!

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Probably something like this with an EGMS and some PR avionics. Hopefully they won't have the 400lbs of old wiring that the current -60G's have.

1269269_10100217072442273_725436100_o_zp

Q13_1507a-L.jpg

Edit: And be painted like this:

DSCN2532.jpg

Edited by Breckey
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Part of their RF countermeasure system. CRH will not be related to the 160th birds other than being based on the UH-60M.

UH-60M = no AR probe

MH-60M = AR probe

(just one example, which you're obviously aware of...not saying it will have the exact same probe or specifications)

I think there will me some more similarities to the MH-60M vs just being similar to a slick UH-60M. I'm pretty sure I know you what meant though.

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  • 2 months later...

well this is a though-provoking read. The author starts out asking why, if the S-92 just go awarded to be the next presidential helo, can't the same platform act as the bones for the CRH. He then goes on to argue for a mixed fleet (which is a discussion we've already had, when AFSOC proposed it last year)...

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/s-92-is-the-next-marine-one-what-about-combat-search-1542333610/1574474700/+ballaban

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Read that last night. Had some good points that my friends and I have been discussion since getting out of Rucker. Something a little smaller than an H-3 with modern avionics and a drive train that we are used to would be nice. Also, having more room in the back would open up a bunch of options. A couple guys that have been the Afghanistan said some contractors used them up there, but they were power limited like the 60G even without guns, a probe, countermeasures, PJ's, and aux fuel. Pro's and Con's, but it seems like the Con's can be fixed with better engines and a stronger transmission/high speed shafts, flight controls.

Edited by Hodor
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They're already been having cracking issues on the -92 transmission beams and surrounding structure, with the current power & gross weight limits. There's currently an Alert Service Bulletin to do a bunch of rework on/around the transmission beams to alleviate stresses in that area, and hopefully allow the airframes to make it to their predicted SLL (15k hrs, IIRC... but don't quote me on that number). Not to mention the long-running main gearbox issue, which, in Sikorsky's defense, may finally be solved (at current power and GW limits).

Add more power and a shit-ton of .mil mission equipment, and Sikorsky will have to scab on a couple hundred extra pounds of aluminum/stainless/titanium just to make the cracks go somewhere other than around the MGB.

Bristow is operating several S-92s in an offshore SAR configuration in the North Sea. Lots of .civ SAR mission equipment, aux tanks, dual hoist, etc. It would be interesting to see how those aircraft are holding up in that environment...

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The problem is that no matter what helicopter we pick as CRH it's basically a gen 4.5 platform. Sure it'll have better avionics and might make up for some deficiencies that the G has, but at the end of the day it's still a slow ass helicopter. The Osprey is much faster, but is still a crappy vertical lift aircraft.

If we really want to get serious about CSAR and even long range SOF infil/exfil, we should be focused on the next generation. The future vertical lift platform is currently lead by the Army, who knows what they'll pick, but in my opinion both SOF and CSAR are best served by a fast(relative), high flying rotary wing platform that is primarily a vertical lift asset. Something like the X2, but Blackhawk sized and capable of pressurizing, with radar signature reduction measures along with a radar jammer and stand off weapons and sensor.

  • Upvote 2
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The Hawk is and should be the last pure medium lift (medium being generous) that we operate. The driving force behind hat design was to carry an 11 man infantry squad within the confines of the combined arms model.... An Army model based on linear warfare. That means the thing is only designed to work within 30K of the FLOT.

That's where these constant make it do more ideas are fucking us, and you guys specifically. Even the SOAR guys have realized the 60 is really just a short range platform. The ranges you can expect an OCA/DCA mission to go down its just insane that all we have to go with is a heavier, fatter, heavily armed 60. Jump FARPs and Air refuel theoretically extend that range but we haven't really don't anything different with the model of what your bringing to the fight. Either you need a huge package of aircraft to put any effective ground force on the dirt or you need a shit load of escort to keep those handful of super medic/snake eaters from being over run trying to defend the isolated personnel.

FVL is coming... But it's at least a decade out if we start today. The Army isn't even defining the requirement till 2019 with an expected implementation around 2025 (not holding my breath). Hell we aren't even going to be done buying E model Apaches and M model Hawks until something like 2022 according to the current plan.

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The Hawk is and should be the last pure medium lift (medium being generous) that we operate. The driving force behind hat design was to carry an 11 man infantry squad within the confines of the combined arms model.... An Army model based on linear warfare. That means the thing is only designed to work within 30K of the FLOT.

That's where these constant make it do more ideas are ######ing us, and you guys specifically. Even the SOAR guys have realized the 60 is really just a short range platform. The ranges you can expect an OCA/DCA mission to go down its just insane that all we have to go with is a heavier, fatter, heavily armed 60. Jump FARPs and Air refuel theoretically extend that range but we haven't really don't anything different with the model of what your bringing to the fight. Either you need a huge package of aircraft to put any effective ground force on the dirt or you need a shit load of escort to keep those handful of super medic/snake eaters from being over run trying to defend the isolated personnel.

FVL is coming... But it's at least a decade out if we start today. The Army isn't even defining the requirement till 2019 with an expected implementation around 2025 (not holding my breath). Hell we aren't even going to be done buying E model Apaches and M model Hawks until something like 2022 according to the current plan.

That's discouraging. I hate being out of the loop...

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

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  • 1 month later...
Sikorsky Aircraft Corp., Stratford, Connecticut, has been awarded a $1,277,618,606 fixed-price-incentive-firm at target price/firm-fixed-price contract for the initial engineering, manufacturing and development Combat Rescue Helicopter (CRH) program.

http://www.defense.gov/Contracts/Contract.aspx?ContractID=5316

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