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These horror stories of police arresting people on the beach or dragging people out of church are way overblown.  The media is going to over-report anything that will get views and outrage--similar to

The Crozier situation has sparked many illuminating conversations up and down the chain.  No, we don’t know all details but the core issues ring true to anyone who has experienced mid-level authority

You went from making a reasonable point to saying religious people should all get together and give themselves coronovirus because they’re stupid.  Not sure why or how you made this leap, but maybe yo

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On 3/23/2020 at 4:59 PM, brickhistory said:

I think your math is inflated by several digits, but as I premised, what is the cut line?

Some, worst case in my opinion, 20,000-30,000 in the U.S., another 50,000 worldwide deaths or a literal stopped economy, both ours and Western Europe?  BTW, China is cranking its factories back up and Russia never stopped.

We are printing money by the non-metric sh1t ton-load and the stock market is still tanking.  Small businesses do not have the reserves to stand more than 1-2 weeks of not getting customers.  Even if we opened for business tomorrow, thousands of mom-and-pop's are gone.  They'll eventually be replaced assuming there's still an economy to make it worthwhile to try.

As I said, I don't have the answer(s).  More/gooder medical supplies/meds, yea!  Shutting everyone up behind closed doors?  Not so sure.

And I'm (using the royal "I," not me personally) losing my first, second, fourth, sixth, and seventh amendment rights because somebody said so.  Is that us?

I'm agin that.

 

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On 3/28/2020 at 8:21 PM, kaputt said:

Even Texas, a state that allegedly prides itself on upholding civil liberties, has said they intend to make surprise visits to people who are known to have traveled from New York, just to make sure they are adhering to the rules. 
 

“Unannounced visits”
https://www.dps.texas.gov/director_staff/media_and_communications/pr/2020/0327a

To me, some of the erosion of civil liberties during this crisis is alarming. We’re teetering on the edge of going past smart compromise to flatten the curve, to just straight fear. 

Amazing how fast the fake cowboys abandon their civil libertarian "freedom ain't free" bullshit persona once even the slightest threat shows up (that can't be blown up or shot out of existence).

Edited by joe1234
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6 hours ago, joe1234 said:

Amazing how fast the fake cowboys abandon their civil libertarian "freedom ain't free" bullshit persona once even the slightest threat shows up (that can't be blown up or shot out of existence).

No, we are just tired of New Yorkers and Californians escaping their gutter trash of  states and finding refuge in Texas only to bring their politics (or now Coronavirus) to this state.  FYI I grew up in New York and my parents still live there, it sucks. 

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24 minutes ago, dream big said:

No, we are just tired of New Yorkers and Californians escaping their gutter trash of  states and finding refuge in Texas only to bring their politics (or now Coronavirus) to this state.  FYI I grew up in New York and my parents still live there, it sucks. 

Uhhh wait.... "what's good for me is not for thee?" Is that your take on this? 

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1 hour ago, dream big said:

No, we are just tired of New Yorkers and Californians escaping their gutter trash of  states and finding refuge in Texas only to bring their politics (or now Coronavirus) to this state.  FYI I grew up in New York and my parents still live there, it sucks. 

I have a theory that mutual prosperity (for most) was the glue holding this whole thing together. When we lose that, the suspicion, blame, finger-pointing, and devolution into tribalism will threaten to tear the country apart.

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8 minutes ago, torqued said:

I have a theory that mutual prosperity (for most) was the glue holding this whole thing together. When we lose that, the suspicion, blame, finger-pointing, and devolution into tribalism will threaten to tear the country apart.

That’s it for every group of people in the world. 

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12 hours ago, M2 said:

Jeez, overreacted much?  Did Abbott say he was sending a DPS SWAT team after them?  No, all the order says is that random check-ups will occur.  Texas has ever right to ensure those New Yorkers (and other suspected contagious individuals) stay in place as the law requires.  

https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/governor-abbott-issues-executive-order-mandating-14-day-quarantine-for-travelers-arriving-from-new-york-tri-state-area-new-orleans2

Plus, inasmuch as New York feels it can meddle in Texas' business, for all we care they can stay the fuck there!

And did I mention Texas? Rhode Island law enforcement and the National Guard are doing door checks to see if there are any New Yorkers in the residence. New York has already said they'll sue and the ACLU is suing. If you actually read the link to the order you posted it states that:

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A covered person shall remain in the designated quarantine location for a period of 14 days or the duration of the person’s presence in Texas, whichever is shorter, leaving only to seek medical care or to depart from Texas.  During that period, a covered person shall not allow visitors into or out of the designated quarantine location, other than a health department employee, physician, or healthcare provider, and shall not visit any public spaces.

DPS Special Agents will conduct unannounced visits to designated quarantine locations to verify compliance by confirming the physical presence of covered persons.  Any failure to comply with this order to self-quarantine shall be a criminal offense punishable by a fine not to exceed $1,000, confinement in jail for a term not to exceed 180 days, or both.

So, what if DPS shows up at my door and I don't answer? Am I fined up to $1,000 and/or sent to jail for 180 days for not opening and talking to DPS? What compels me to even open the door?  Individual's constitutional rights aren't suspended due to a pandemic. Governors can pass whatever order they want, they'll never get past that whole Supremacy Clause thing and that whole 4th Amendment. If law enforcement conducts a "Terry Stop" on someone and finds out they should've been quarantined due to the order, they could face the fine and/or jail, that's legal. However, saying probable cause is based on someone having a New York license plate and/or randomly just knocking on doors inquiring about the individuals in there the domicile without a warrant or rights waived by the domicile owner, that's not fine.

https://turnto10.com/news/local/new-yorks-governor-cuomo-threatens-to-sue-ri

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2 hours ago, dream big said:

No, we are just tired of New Yorkers and Californians escaping their gutter trash of  states and finding refuge in Texas only to bring their politics (or now Coronavirus) to this state.  FYI I grew up in New York and my parents still live there, it sucks. 

Your capitol is insanely liberal and votes blue (65% for Clinton in the 2016 Presidential Primary).

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2 hours ago, dream big said:

No, we are just tired of New Yorkers and Californians escaping their gutter trash of  states and finding refuge in Texas only to bring their politics (or now Coronavirus) to this state.  FYI I grew up in New York and my parents still live there, it sucks. 

Yeah, fuck California and it’s fifth largest economy in the world. We don’t need those fuckin’ libs. We’re way better off without all the trade that comes through their ports. We certainly don’t need their winter vegetables in our grocery stores (who wants avacados anyway?). Hollywood is a liberal, corrupt industry that we really don’t make any money off exporting right?  And the tourism industry there is overrated......it can’t be bringing in much cash. I’ve got an idea. Let’s just split the country into blue and red. How’s that saying go? United we.....tear ourselves apart?

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8 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Yeah, California and it’s fifth largest economy in the world. We don’t need those in’ libs. We’re way better off without all the trade that comes through their ports. We certainly don’t need their winter vegetables in our grocery stores (who wants avacados anyway?). Hollywood is a liberal, corrupt industry that we really don’t make any money off exporting right?  And the tourism industry there is overrated......it can’t be bringing in much cash. I’ve got an idea. Let’s just split the country into blue and red. How’s that saying go? United we.....tear ourselves apart?

Yeah, living in Nevada with the option to visit a successful neighboring state does sound great!

#stateofjefforson

ETClarify: not down with splitting the union

Edited by jice
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2 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

Your capitol is insanely liberal and votes blue (65% for Clinton in the 2016 Presidential Primary).

Austin isn't Texas.  If you did a little research, you would find that a lot of its residents are California transplants who are trying to ruin this great state as badly as they did their old one.  In fact, they exemplify why Texans don't like Californians moving here! 

Any state that continues to re-elects Pelosi, Schiff, Waters and the rest of that bunch gets what they deserve. 

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2 hours ago, Prozac said:

Yeah, fuck California and it’s fifth largest economy in the world. We don’t need those fuckin’ libs. We’re way better off without all the trade that comes through their ports. We certainly don’t need their winter vegetables in our grocery stores (who wants avacados anyway?). Hollywood is a liberal, corrupt industry that we really don’t make any money off exporting right?  And the tourism industry there is overrated......it can’t be bringing in much cash. I’ve got an idea. Let’s just split the country into blue and red. How’s that saying go? United we.....tear ourselves apart?

In 2017, Texas grossed more than $264.5 billion a year in exports—more than California ($172 billion) and New York ($77.9 billion) combined.

There is also a significant difference between the cost of living in California and Texas. Housing costs in Texas are 54% less than in California, while a family with kids may save over 60%.  There is an 18% difference in food cost, 8% less expensive health insurance, and 14% lower spending on entertainment.

But the biggest indicator is which direction people are moving.  in 2018 almost 700,000 Californians moved out of that state, of which 86,000 ended up in Texas.  In fact, Texas was the second most popular state for moving to in 2018, with over half a million newcomers.  You could count the number of Texans moving to California on one hand.

This sums it all very nicely!

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/the-truth-about-the-california-exodus/605833/

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California’s crisis isn’t that people don’t want to be there. Lots of people want to live near the Pacific coastline, but expensive housing has drawn a velvet rope around that economy for the richer, more educated, and old. 

So yeah, sorry if the rest of the nation doesn't weep for California!  They are responsible for their current situation, especially due to the politicians they keep re-electing.  When they put illegal immigrants and sanctuary cities above the needs of their own constituents, it should be clear it's time for someone else; yet they continue to keep the same idiots year after year...

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1 hour ago, M2 said:

Austin isn't Texas.  If you did a little research, you would find that a lot of its residents are California transplants who are trying to ruin this great state as badly as they did their old one.  In fact, they exemplify why Texans don't like Californians moving here! 

Any state that continues to re-elects Pelosi, Schiff, Waters and the rest of that bunch gets what they deserve. 

I live in the PNW. There are Californians moving everywhere, and have been, however continue your state-based xenophobia. You also left out that in 2019 there were 37,810 Texans that moved to California, which was the second most behind Washington state. If you did your research, you'd know the north-central and north east part of California is historically Republican. Before you respond with some Boomer'esqe "libtard" insult, I'm born and raised in Wyoming. Which I would argue is more conservative than Texas. Also, with your comparison of exports, which you conveniently didn't respond with a GDP comparison (which Texas is second to California by a $1.2 trillion difference), Texas had $330 billion in exports in 2019. About $106 billion of it was oil. We'll see how well that much they lead in exports due to the price of oil currently being $20 per barrel. 

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/state/data/tx.html

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/11/04/691145-californians-left-last-year-what-state-did-they-go-to/

Edited by Sua Sponte
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1 hour ago, M2 said:So yeah, sorry if the rest of the nation doesn't weep for California!  They are responsible for their current situation, especially due to the politicians they keep re-electing.  When they put illegal immigrants and sanctuary cities above the needs of their own constituents, it should be clear it's time for someone else; yet they continue to keep the same idiots year after year...

What exactly is their current situation? Last I checked, they were running a $7B budget surplus. https://www.kcra.com/article/california-dollar7-billion-budget-surplus-legislative-analysts-office-report/29865751#
Not arguing that people aren’t leaving due to high cost of living. Certainly not arguing that anyone has to agree with the politics that are seemingly (but not always/every city) prevalent there. But to suggest that the biggest economic state in the union has little to offer and should be cast aside along with its citizens is a bit disingenuous and every bit as insulting as if I were to say “the state of texas is full of deplorables who can do little but cling to their guns and bibles.....who needs those simpletons?” That kind of commentary is not helpful on either side of the red/blue divide in the best of times and borderline dangerous when the nation is in crisis like, you know, now. 

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5 hours ago, M2 said:

Austin isn't Texas.  If you did a little research, you would find that a lot of its residents are California transplants who are trying to ruin this great state as badly as they did their old one.  In fact, they exemplify why Texans don't like Californians moving here!

Except for the fact that....it is Texas? Literally right in the middle and also its capital? 

 

5 hours ago, M2 said:

In fact, Texas was the second most popular state for moving to in 2018, with over half a million newcomers.

Fertile ground for the revolution, comrade.

95WVN.png.49a227f9110b9a7c6d431b31c1285c83.png

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Betting average Texans are better armed and better shots than average Californians.

 

But this brings up an interesting not quite so philosophical question as it once was:

If the military is activated to quell domestic disturbance(s), will it?  Would you if still in uniform and/or a Guardsman under state orders?

Setting up field hospitals, running logistics and the like, sure.

Knocking on doors for 'trespassers' or ultimately firing on fellow Americans who don't take much to having their Constitutional rights infringed upon for very long?

Define 'lawful' order under those circumstances.

 

 

And to those coming to Texas, welcome!  But why, oh why would you then start voting to make it exactly like where you fled from?  Where you gonna go when you f it up here?

 

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2 hours ago, brickhistory said:

Betting average Texans are better armed and better shots than average Californians.

 

But this brings up an interesting not quite so philosophical question as it once was:

If the military is activated to quell domestic disturbance(s), will it?  Would you if still in uniform and/or a Guardsman under state orders?

Setting up field hospitals, running logistics and the like, sure.

Knocking on doors for 'trespassers' or ultimately firing on fellow Americans who don't take much to having their Constitutional rights infringed upon for very long?

Define 'lawful' order under those circumstances.

 

 

And to those coming to Texas, welcome!  But why, oh why would you then start voting to make it exactly like where you fled from?  Where you gonna go when you f it up here?

 

History doesn’t give much reason for optimism.  Trail of Tears, NY Draft Riots, Wounded Knee (understand that many would consider this one a battle in a war), forcible Bonus Army dispersement, Japanese Internment in WW2, Kent State shooting etc.  probably some I can’t think of off the top of my head.

FWIW, I think it’s pretty sad that, unlike the national unity following 9-11, there’s undercurrents of resentment towards some of the states that are currently hardest hit by this pandemic.  My wife’s a nurse dealing with this shit, nobody in her clinic asks what state a patient claims residency in when they come in coughing their lungs out, they just treat them.

  I’m truly hoping that we as a country come out of this stronger and maybe in the short term a little more unified.  Every time I think that I’m also reminded of a prior Sq/CC I had who’d always say “hope is not a tactic”.

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5 hours ago, joe1234 said:

Except for the fact that....it is Texas? Literally right in the middle and also its capital? 

Fertile ground for the revolution, comrade.

95WVN.png.49a227f9110b9a7c6d431b31c1285c83.png

Bless your heart.  You're not too bright, are you?

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On 3/29/2020 at 11:48 AM, M2 said:

What's more alarming is the amount of hyperbole occurring...

You’re so right!  We are number one at hyperbole.  Easily the best in history. Nobody has us beat. We make the most, the best hyperbole of any nation ever. 

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