Jump to content
Baseops Forums
Orbit

COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Waingro said:

I'd be happy if these people died because I don't agree with their politics.

 

  • Thanks 2
  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, torqued said:

I like to gobble on cocks and make up quotes

How'd you conflate politics with having common sense? Not happy with anyone dying but if people are going to willfully flaunt rules designed to protect lives, then I'm ok if they end up paying the price for it. 

  • Downvote 13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guess I’m OK with a bunch of self-righteous, fear-driven, incapable of critical thought, bubble dwellers having no means to support their family while willingly handing over their freedoms like lambs to slaughter. But, despite their own dumbassery getting them there, I’ll still do my role to help pull them out of the shithole they gladly jumped into. Because that’s what Americans do. Good Americans don’t say, “well I don’t agree with you, so I totally have no problem if you just fuck off and die.”

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, brabus said:

 Good Americans don’t say, “well I don’t agree with you, so I totally have no problem if you just fuck off and die.”

Ok, so we are all in agreement for more robust social safety nets and a baseline of healthcare to keep people alive and out of bankruptcy?

 

Lots of pearl clutching here.  Play stupid games, win stupid prizes...regardless of which political party you are part of.  Luckily these people are a very small group of folks and most have enough sense to social distance to help end it faster.

 

I saw this on twitter...I enjoyed it.

EV4zR1_XQAE4F7H.jpg.6c1cc2b1f8a91845eee028cb8380839b.jpg

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, drewpey said:

Luckily these people are a very small group of folks and most have enough sense to social distance to help end it faster.

That’s a good point. I think the majority have done a good job, there are whackos everywhere and they don’t represent the majority. But an alarming trend is the false dichotomy so many people appear to be clutching - if you don’t blindly support total destruction of liberties or policy making based on unreliable data, then you 100% don’t give a fuck about health or safety and are a window-licking idiot dumber than the dirt on my boots.
 

What if there’s a middle ground where people do care about health/safety, liberty, and don’t want decisions made based on knee jerk data, but instead acknowledge there is a moderate approach to problem solving. All three of those areas of concern can reside in one person, but the far left/right zombies following their “leaders” and wielding online pitchforks refuse to acknowledge it. The “my way is the only way” crowd needs to pull their heads out of their asses. 

Edited by brabus
  • Like 6
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This seems relevant to the discussion.

To me, there was never an agreed upon strategy from the top down, so it's natural that some people feeling cheated based on what your expectations were when this all kicked off. All of these (and more!) were messages from various leaders/experts/etc., yet no one can definitely say which one is/was the plan.

Example: a lot of people here are dying on the hill of, "We were told #10 or #11!!" and yea, you were told that. But you were also told to prepare for #2, #3, or #5, and worst case #1.

IMHO the President's plan (if you can call it that) has been start with deny, deny, deny, deny, make counter-accusations (classic strategy!), now we're in #4 (delay is also one of my fav tactics), with a sprinkling of #7 and eventually probably end up at #6 because we have no other plan.

List originally taken from here.

image.thumb.png.1605c4e1ef3b661d527a83c2598f8366.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

When it comes to nurses & some of the protests to open things back up, I think we need to show some compassion. 5% toward those protesting because freedom of association and movement and work are important, and 95% to frontline healthcare workers who are going through hell right now. The endgame solution is a balance...feel free to pick from the above options and call your Congressman.

Back to nurses and the (joke) cards running around for people to sign away their right to healthcare if they get the Rona: how many random soldiers recommended glassing the entire Middle East after seeing their buddies get killed or maimed in Iraq/Afghanistan/et al? I know more than a few personally and I also know there are several examples I could pull from this august body of spear-throwers.

Nurses and doctors likely feel about the same right now toward people they see as making the their jobs harder. If I were them I'd be pretty damn angry too; hell, I can get angry at people not doing the right thing and I'm just sitting on my couch. In other news, get off my lawn.

I have great certainty that 99.9% of healthcare workers would treat any patient rolling through the door with COVID-19 regardless of the circumstances, just like 99.9% of soldiers wouldn't murder innocent civilians on the battlefield.

Edited by nsplayr
  • Like 3
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Waingro said:

I'm OK with this, gotta clean out that gene pool!

2f46fdf.jpg

What’s wrong with you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

it's rich that the people screaming "STAY HOME" the loudest are the ones with the steady paychecks continuing to come in like clock work every two weeks

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/20/amid-pandemic-unemployment-checks-can-take-longer-to-arrive.html

 

https://medium.com/@jbgeach/changing-the-goalposts-four-more-reasons-it-is-safe-to-open-america-560cfc0ab4c3

Edited by BashiChuni
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Apologies on the username confusion boys, that was an old account somehow still signed in on my phone.  Not trying to Russia troll farm anybody into changing their minds.  I'll shack myself accordingly.  

Now back to our regularly scheduled bitch sesh

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Almost every politician has been a panicky shit sandwich.  Organizations have twisted the truth (with good intentions in their hearts) in an attempt at modifying people's behavior, but it's still bullshit.

The media is behaving like a cat chasing a laser pointer, knowing they want to craft a narrative but can't figure out what it should be other than A: Trump is evil and Fox News sucks or B: Trump is awesome and CNN is evil.

The people need to be told the truth, then allowed to make decisions.  If the people can't be trusted to act responsibly of their own free will, what's the point of having a free society?  Yes, I realize that statement is lacking in a lot of the nuance that is actually necessary in making a functional government. 

Then again, telling people who lost their jobs because the government shut down their employer to just fucking stay at home and stop bitching is pretty fucking obtuse.

The reality is this will continue in waves until a vaccine is developed or the pandemic has run it's course, either way ending in herd immunity or a virus mutated for lower mortality that we just learn to live with.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Danger41 said:

motorcyclists

I think this is what I'm signing when I log off my annual briefing in MUSTT, no? 😄

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, dream big said:

I am personally terrified that someone that deranged and devoid of logic is allows to be a nurse and work with other’s health. 

Uh, have you ever met a nurse?

 

Break break

 

Are we ready to stop pretending like this thing is a threat to healthy people? We flattened the curve, forestalled the infections long enough to get ventilators and hospital beds ready. There's no cure or vaccine coming soon, so let's just stop pretending like the world stays paused for however long that will take.

 

We are going to open up, and more old/unhealthy people are going to die. That was never, ever going to be avoided. We didn't flatten the curve to keep people from getting sick forever, we did it to make sure there would be a bed for them when it happened. We're there now, so let's stop ****ing around. 

 

The world doesn't stop just because a disease exists. We had to adapt our medical system to this new reality, and that required social distancing. We're close enough to go back to living again.

Edited by Lord Ratner
  • Like 3
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Are we ready to stop pretending like this thing is a threat to healthy people? We flattened the curve, forestalled the infections long enough to get ventilators and hospital beds ready. There's no cure or vaccine coming soon, so let's just stop pretending like the world stays paused for however long that will take.

We are going to open up, and more old/unhealthy people are going to die. That was never, ever going to be avoided. We didn't flatten the curve to keep people from getting sick forever, we did it to make sure there would be a bed for them when it happened. We're there now, so let's stop ****ing around. 

The world doesn't stop just because a disease exists. We had to adapt our medical system to this new reality, and that required social distancing. We're close enough to go back to living again.

I think you're exactly right.  What's going to be really irritating is months from now when politicians and talking heads point to the curve and say "Look how it flattened after the lockdowns were put in place."  Watch for that, because that argument is going to be made until people accept it as truth, without any discussion of what else may have caused the flattening.

You know what other infectious disease curve looks like COVID's and also "flattened out?"  EVERY SINGLE ONE EVER.  That's how a new/novel disease works.  It hurts/kills the most frail and vulnerable early when it initially hits, and then it flattens, because the weakest and most vulnerable are no longer around to be infected.

Here's my stab at a logical conclusion that sounds a bit harsh, but seems like reality:  A lockdown doesn't make the frail or immunocompromised somehow stronger or less compromised.  So the purpose then is to slow the spread until the virus is irradicated or a cure/vaccine is found, which means a lockdown for at least one year by current estimates.  But, if we're not prepared for a lockdown until there's a cure or irradication, then the lockdown is again pointless because when lifted, absent a cure or irradication, it will still spread to those who are frail or immunocompromised and they'll end up however they would've ended up anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



Here's my stab at a logical conclusion that sounds a bit harsh, but seems like reality:  A lockdown doesn't make the frail or immunocompromised somehow stronger or less compromised.  So the purpose then is to slow the spread until the virus is irradicated or a cure/vaccine is found, which means a lockdown for at least one year by current estimates. 


Flattening the curve to slow the virus isn't just to slow the spread, it's to slow the spread to allow the hospitalization rates to stay within the capacity of the medical community to treat them.

A vaccine reduces would reduce the number of people getting infected and needing treatment, but it's not the only solution. You could also attack the other end of the problem, increasing healthcare capacity to meet the demand. (Or hopefully, do both). But that requires significant investment ASAP, with some things having long lead times. I guess another solution is "sucks to be you if you get sick, you shouldn't have been so weak."

That includes beds at the hospitals, doctors and nurses to treat patients, specialized equipment (not just ventilators) and the parts to maintain them, medications and PPE on hand and the ability to produce and distribute, as well as all the other support to make a hospital run.

If non-medical companies retool to build medical equipment, how are they inspected to ensure what they are producing is safe? Or will standards be thrown out?

So it looks like we're doing okay now, though PPE is being heavily rationed, and a lot of safety procedures and best practices regarding PPE for healthcare workers have been waived. Small sample size, but both of my family members in medicine are surging already at their hospital/clinic.

We can't stay locked down indefinitely, my gut says late summer for easing up. But I don't think it'll go back to how it was in Jan/Feb either for a long time.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, jazzdude said:

We can't stay locked down indefinitely, my gut says late summer for easing up. But I don't think it'll go back to how it was in Jan/Feb either for a long time.

 

 

Americans won't take being locked up that long.  People are already getting antsy and fed up with being stuck at home, as evidenced by numerous protests.  So as to not lose my mind I've been going on a 150-200 mile drive about every other day (gas is $.99 to $1.10 here...why not) and it damn near seems like business as usual in this part of the country.  Went for a $100 hamburger yesterday and aside from the restaurant requiring take out, business seemed steady with at least 4 other planes flying in while I was there. 

The governor of Georgia has already announced some businesses may open up as early as Friday.  Restaurant dining rooms and Movie theaters to open next Monday and the stay at home order ends 30Apr.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, jazzdude said:


We can't stay locked down indefinitely, my gut says late summer for easing up. But I don't think it'll go back to how it was in Jan/Feb either for a long time.
 

 

Some data from Texas. A huge chunk of the state pretty much never even went into social distancing if you ask me. I never stopped heading into work, the highways and everything were bustling everyday. Grocery stores ran like normal. Gas stations full of people. Customers certainly were dying to come to our business, frustrated with the quarantine. People were on the trail running every morning (definitely within 6 ft) etc etc. If I somehow avoided the news completely (and man I tried) I would've have never known anything had changed.

Anyways from my little slice of the world, like @SocialD said, this shit show won't last the end of the month in Texas.

Not here to argue the validity of these choices by any means, just spread some perspective from the good ole lone star state.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, jonlbs said:

Some data from Texas. A huge chunk of the state pretty much never even went into social distancing if you ask me. I never stopped heading into work, the highways and everything were bustling everyday. Grocery stores ran like normal. Gas stations full of people. Customers certainly were dying to come to our business, frustrated with the quarantine. People were on the trail running every morning (definitely within 6 ft) etc etc. If I somehow avoided the news completely (and man I tried) I would've have never known anything had changed.

Anyways from my little slice of the world, like @SocialD said, this shit show won't last the end of the month in Texas.

Not here to argue the validity of these choices by any means, just spread some perspective from the good ole lone star state.

 

This can't be true...people would be dying by the tens of thousands and your hospitals would be overflowing.  😁

 

A pilot I follow on youtube made a few videos talking about his experience with getting the rona.  Btw, if you like to geek out on planes that were built 70-80 years ago and have the wheel in the back, check out some of his other videos.  

 

 

Edited by SocialD
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dewey makes some good flying videos. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Here is an actual plan for coming out of this crisis from Dr. Scott Gottlieb, Trump’s first FDA head, and others at AEI.
 

https://www.aei.org/research-products/report/national-coronavirus-response-a-road-map-to-reopening/

Key takeaways are the triggers/conditions to move from one phase to another. We are in Phase 1 now.

They write:

A state can safely proceed to Phase II when it has achieved all the following:

  • A sustained reduction in cases for at least 14 days,
  • Hospitals in the state are safely able to treat all patients requiring hospitalization without resorting to crisis standards of care,22
  • The state is able to test all people with COVID-19 symptoms, and
  • The state is able to conduct active monitoring of confirmed cases and their contacts.23

Some states, including mine, seem ready to move to Phase II in the next week or two, without meeting any of the above triggers. I’m hopeful we can make some progress toward these kind of benchmarks before the state-wise stay at home order expires, but we truly are in a “Ready, Fire, Aim” situation because it’s not a conditions-based plan, it’s a “I’m sick of this lockdown so press” plan, IMHO.

Edited by nsplayr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

Some states, including mine, seem ready to move to Phase II in the next week or two, without meeting any of the above triggers. I’m hopeful we can make some progress toward these kind of benchmarks before the state-wise stay at home order expires, but we truly are in a “Ready, Fire, Aim” situation because it’s not a conditions-based plan, it’s a “I’m sick of this lockdown so YOLO” plan, IMHO.

Exactly.  People are far too eager to declare a premature victory over this thing and return to normalcy without any semblance of a structured approach.  I think it's partly frustration with the lockdown and partly desensitization.  Mortality numbers like we're seeing today would have been unimaginable in January, but when CNN jams them down your throat 24/7, eventually it stops being alarming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting the public to trust the decisions being made would be a helluva lot easier if our elites hadn't totally thrown their credibility in the toilet long before. We now live in a world where there is no penalty for failing or being wrong if you are in the elite class.  Yet they expect us to do as they say without question....

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Pooter said:

Exactly.  People are far too eager to declare a premature victory over this thing and return to normalcy without any semblance of a structured approach.  I think it's partly frustration with the lockdown and partly desensitization.  Mortality numbers like we're seeing today would have been unimaginable in January, but when CNN jams them down your throat 24/7, eventually it stops being alarming.

The mortality numbers are being artificially inflated.  If you’re in hospice for cancer at 82 years old and contract COVID, your cause of death is listed as COVID.  Not legitimate.  Speaking of unimaginable in January— police drones made in China enforcing social distancing (absent any proof it works, BTW) enthusiastically employed on the US populous fits that category.  Protestors arrested for peacefully protesting government violations of the first amendment while our national media cheers.  
 

I get it: we disagree.  Let’s revisit this conversation at years end to see if states like GA and TN are struck by devastating second waves of the virus.  That’s something lacking in our national dialogue on issues as we jump from crisis to crisis in the news cycle: follow up to see, in retrospect, what the right answer really was.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jonlbs said:

Some data from Texas. A huge chunk of the state pretty much never even went into social distancing if you ask me. I never stopped heading into work, the highways and everything were bustling everyday. Grocery stores ran like normal. Gas stations full of people. Customers certainly were dying to come to our business, frustrated with the quarantine. People were on the trail running every morning (definitely within 6 ft) etc etc. If I somehow avoided the news completely (and man I tried) I would've have never known anything had changed.

Anyways from my little slice of the world, like @SocialD said, this shit show won't last the end of the month in Texas.

Not here to argue the validity of these choices by any means, just spread some perspective from the good ole lone star state.

And yet Texas has one of the best effective reproduction rates, with some of the highest fidelity data. https://rt.live/#learn-more

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...