Information on PCS/moves/moving (DITY, TMO, DLA, storage)

[Guest PilotKD]

http://dodtravelregs.hqda.pentagon.mil/pro...e.htm?view=main

The above link is your mecca of travel regulations and it has allowed me to receive literally thousands of dollars of entitlements that finance tried to screw me out of because one person said this and the other said that. Bottom line, look up the reg yourself, print it out and when some airmen basic with his/her infinite finance wisdom tells you he or she doesn't think you're entitled to something when you think you are, you can hand them the reg and say, "According to this, it says I am.". Typing in "Dislocation Allowance", I came up with Chapter 5, Part G of the 2007 JFTR that says:

U5610 ELIGIBILITY

A. Member with Dependents. A member with dependents is authorized a DLA when dependents:

1. Relocate in connection with a PCS,

2. Move in connection with the closure or realignment of a military installation (see par. U5630-B12),

3. Move to a designated place incident to an evacuation (IAW pars. U6012 and U6059), or

4. As otherwise authorized in this Part.

B. Member without Dependents. A member without dependents is authorized DLA when:

1. Relocated in connection with a PCS to a PDS where Government quarters are not assigned, or

2. Ordered to, and actually does, move in connection with the closure or realignment of a U.S. Installation. See par. U5630-B12.

So, from what I gather out of that is, no, you are not entitled DLA because you were in government quarters.

[Bergman]

Originally posted by pcgoeken:

Should I receive DLA as a single guard guy with no dependents that PCS'd to UPT then PCS'd home afterwards? If it matters I lived in the duplexs at DLF. I read the DLA facts that is linked from the baseops homepage and I couldn't determine if I was eligible or not. Finance back home is giving me the runaround as well by saying they aren't sure if I should receive it either.

Haha...I started this argument with Arlene Simon up there over 3 years ago; even appealed to the DoD "Finance committee" and never got a response. The long and short of it is that the way they read the reg, you should get DLA going TO UPT but not back. The reasoning is that you are "separating from the AF" (i.e. your orders end) when you return home. It's a loophole in the reg...the AF originally intended it to mean that they don't have to pay you DLA if you separate (from AD) but the ANG finance weenies have spun it for their benefit apparently. I love the first line of the JTFR, "Dislocation allowance is intended to offset the cost of a PCS move" Ummm...isn't PCSing from DLF to SUX a PCS move?! WTF! Bottom line...they should have paid it going to UPT at least. PM me for more specific info...many of the guys up there have fought this battle before.

Good luck. Let me know how it works out.

[trailmix]

Originally asked a question regarding the DITY move but then found this great website, check it out if you have any moving questions:

http://afmove.hq.af.mil/Default.asp

Edited February 26, 2007 by trailmix

[Guest Pike]

I just heard that in the guard you could PCS to UPT, UNT, etc, and still get BAH for the area you PCS'd from. Any idea how this works or how to make it happen? I think it may only be for married or dependent type folks, but I'm not exactly sure.

Anyone...?

[Guest phil413]

I had my Liason call the National Guard Bureau regarding this. It is not legal to live on base at your PCS location and receive BAH (from any zip code). Some that were receiving both will have to pay it back... Basically, some units were abusing the system and now they're cracking down on this finance issue. If you have dependents that stay back home while you go to your base, that's a different story - then you can live on base and receive original HOR BAH.

[Guest ACJ7464]

If you have dependants and are PCSd around during UPT make sure you get DLA on every move, except for the final one back to your HOR. I got DLA for both my move to Columbus and Corpus and would have been entitled if they had PCSd me to Little Rock (which they threatened and have cut orders for others following me through the pipeline.)

[Techsan]

PCS Advice

...found on baseops.net

[Guest Hydro130]

When going overseas, be sure to ask your sponsor very specifically what the best way is to get your pro gear & LS gear (helmet, etc) "over there" in a timely fashion - you would like to have it waiting for you upon arrival, and you probably don't want to bother with hand-carrying it on the trip. You can get reimbursed for some shipping options (I don't remember the details), but some methods are significantly slower than others. This burned me when I PCSd to Yokota. IIRC, I did Parcel Post (not sure) because, at the time, that's what I understood would be reimbursed. Big mistake. Took 2-3 months for my gear to show up. In hindsight, I would have paid for it all out-of-pocket to get it sooner, if necessary. You'll be making good coin overseas anyway; don't skimp on smart shipping...

Cheers, Hydro

EDIT: Mambo makes a good point below - my HHG and UAB all showed up well before my pro gear ever did. Ugh.

Edited March 11, 2007 by Hydro130

[Mambo]

...to add to Hydro's post, when you PCS overseas you should get two shipments. Unaccompanied baggage and your household goods. Unnaccompanied I think runs around 300-500lbs allowable (may depend on rank/destination) and is supposed to arrive within 30 days. This is typically things you will need quickly upon arriving at your new duty station...ie, kitchen stuff, sheets, blankets ect. You can ship your pro-gear with unaccompanied and it won't count against your weight allowance. And you can get creative on what counts as pro-gear. Two trips to Kadena and my unaccompanied has always arrived within 2 weeks.

[Herk Driver]

...to add to Hydro's post, when you PCS overseas you should get two shipments. Unaccompanied baggage and your household goods. Unnaccompanied I think runs around 300-500lbs allowable (may depend on rank/destination) and is supposed to arrive within 30 days. This is typically things you will need quickly upon arriving at your new duty station...ie, kitchen stuff, sheets, blankets ect. You can ship your pro-gear with unaccompanied and it won't count against your weight allowance. And you can get creative on what counts as pro-gear. Two trips to Kadena and my unaccompanied has always arrived within 2 weeks.

If you want to mail stuff to yourself, you can send it through the good ole USPS. It can be sent priority mail and insured. You will get reimbursed up to what the gov't would have paid for the same weight through your Unaccompanied baggage (which is normally all of it). They will not reimburse the insurance though. All of this weight counts against your overall weight allowance as well (unless it's pro-gear).

Same topic...different twist

When PCS'ing back to the states from Europe (I presume, all overseas), you can get the TMO folks to pay to ship any wine/liquor that you've accumulated over here. You have to jump through a couple of hoops. I don't remember all the details, but basically, find a shipper. Pay the money to ship the alcohol and take the receipt to the TMO who will type up a letter authorizing you the reimbursement. Take the letter and x copies of orders to finance at the losing base and you get reimbursed just like filing a travel voucher. If you're leaving overseas anytime soon, just ask at TMO. They have all the details.

Also, one of the best kept secrets about leaving overseas and heading home is what is known as "circuitous travel". This is the ability to take leave in conjunction with your PCS back to the states and jump on a plane where ever it is that you end up. For example, you can leave Ramstein, go to Paris for a couple of days, then go to Amsterdam for several days and then head over to London for a couple more days before boarding a flight back to the states from London. Normally, you are authorized to depart from Frankfurt to head back to the states from Ramstein and would have to leave from Frankfurt so after taking leave you would have to ultimately end up back in Frankfurt to catch your flight. With circuitous travel authorized, they will figure out which ticket is cheaper (Frankfurt to the states or London, from the example) and you will be reimbursed up to the cost of the flight from Frankfurt. You get to take a great trip and leave from the airport of your choosing and more than likely not have to pay anything.

FYI, when I left Ramstein back in 2002, you had to ask specifically for circuitous travel. The travel people did not bring it up in the outprocessing briefing. When I asked they would not discuss it in the group, but instead they had me stay afterward to get the entitlement put on my orders. One more time that you have to know more than the man.

[Guest HerkCowboy]

I figured I would bust my Baseops cherry on this one. For me, one of the biggest pains about PCSing or moving is changing all my addresses. So I made a list of people/places that you will need to change your address with. Obviously it will be different for each person but I tried to make it general. I have only PCSed 3 times so I am a beginner compared to most and these are the ones I have came up with. I am sure I have missed some, so post the ones that I missed.

-Postal Service

-ID Card

-USAA (Checking/ Credit Card/ Car, Home, & Renters Insurances)

-Loan Agencies

-Military Stuff

--vRED on vMPF

--DEERS

--Tricare

--Gov Travel Card (Have unit switched and activate card)

-Cell Phone Company

-Pilot’s License Stuff (FAA)

-Clubs (Officer’s Club, Netflix)

[Guest av8nguido]

can someone help me clear this up...

I was told that a member with dependents can claim DLA REGARDLESS of whether you live on base or off base. Finance says nope! I quoted the JFTRs and he said that was simply a guide and to look it up in AFI 65-114... which I'm currently doing. Everyone I know has claimed DLA while living on base w/ dependents....

[Guest ACJ7464]

can someone help me clear this up...

I was told that a member with dependents can claim DLA REGARDLESS of whether you live on base or off base. Finance says nope! I quoted the JFTRs and he said that was simply a guide and to look it up in AFI 65-114... which I'm currently doing. Everyone I know has claimed DLA while living on base w/ dependents....

Here is the ONLY references to DLA in 65-114:

Section 8C—Dislocation Allowance

8.29. Members must substantiate claims for dislocation allowance with the following :

8.29.1. Members without Dependents (E4 and Below). Support the claim with copies of a statement from the commander, or designee, at the new duty station that the member was not assigned permanent government quarters at that station.

8.29.2. Members without Dependents (E5 and Above). A statement by the member, on the face of the claim or by separate attachment, is permitted in lieu of the document required in 8.29.1. above. This statement must include the words that permanent government quarters were not assigned. NOTE: A member with dependents who does not relocate the dependents is considered a member without dependents for DLA.

8.29.3. Promotions after PCS Order Issuance. Members, promoted after PCS orders issuance and on or before the effective date of orders, are authorized DLA based on the higher grade. Examples of valid evidence are:

8.29.3.1. Promotion orders or a “MD” print from the MMPA.

8.29.4. Members with Dependents. Show all eligible dependents in Block 12.

8.30. Unique Processing Requirements:

8.30.1. Reference to Secretarial Finding. When a member performs more than one PCS in the same FY in which a Secretarial determination is required for payment of DLA (JFTR, par. U5620 and AFI 36-2110, par. 2.52), the travel order must cite the letter or message of approval from the Secretary of the Air Force (SAF). When not cited in the travel order, verify the existence of the letter or message of approval before DLA is paid. Authority from AFPC/DPMRPP must be cited on the payment voucher. SAF approval for more than one PCS in a FY is not required in time of national emergency, war, school tours (20 or more weeks), or hospital PCSs.

8.30.2. Old and New PDS in Proximity to Each Other or Reassigned between Activities at the Same PDS. Support the claim with copies of:

8.30.2.1. The official personnel action document directing the reassignment, to include AF Form 2096, Classification/On-the-Job Training Action or,

8.30.2.2. A special order, to include a composed order and,

8.30.2.3. A properly approved household goods movement notice. Note: The DLA paid under this paragraph is changed to accounting classification 57(FY)3500 32(FY) 5762.0*(officer) or 5862.0*(enlisted) 525725. * Is the applicable subproject shred (F for with dependents and S for without dependents). The accounting classification must be annotated on the household goods movement notice.

8.30.3. Partial DLA. Payments are made on a DD Form 1351-2. The member must include both old and new addresses on the DD Form 1351-2. Additional required documentation is the AF Form 150, Drayage/Storage Authorization-Government Quarters, authorizing the move as for the government’s convenience, and proof that the move has been completed. The proof is in the form of: for PPMs the DD Form 2278, Application for Do it Yourself Move and Counseling Checklist, signed by TMO and for contracted moves the SF Form 1103, U.S. Government Bill of Lading (GBL), also signed by TMO. All payments are made after the move has been completed.

My suggestion would be go back to finance and ask him to show you specifically where the regulation forbids you to get DLA. At least at my unit and the 2 UPT bases I have dealt with on this issue the JFTRs were the bible.

Good luck and FYI I have lived on base twice and both time recieved DLA.

ACJ

[Guest jojo61397]

One thing I learned in 10 years, don't buy more than one package of checks at a time. My husband has checks from three PCSes ago still...

Inventory your stuff, Access has a really good DB, or you can go to Family Readiness (Support Center WETH it's called now) and get a software version of the stuff. Write down serial numbers on all electronics. Go on Ebay and estimate the value of your valuables.

Good site to know if you have china-- www.replacements.com-- I have pre-occupation China set from my grandmother, the movers broke several pieces, I found them on this site, expensive as all hell, but I got them replaced :).

Call the base housing and find out how big your housing is at the next base, married guys. I know many a person who came back from Germany with the beautiful hutch set only to get like a 800 sq ft.

If you are moving stateside it's financially advantageous to do a partial DITY.

Don't stick your wife with all the moving stuff and go TDY. My husband did that on our move to Germany, went ahead and did SOS in residence while I was separating and dealing with medical issues. I just about had a coronary.

If you are going overseas, try to time a new car with your return trip ;)... You can get a 5-series beemer really cheap in Germany, plus you get VAT, and free shipping. Another overseas secret is www.lastminutetravel.com.

If you don't trust the movers, carry it yourself.

'nother moving tip-- if you are planning a moving sale-- sell your books on Ebay. At garages sales, I get normally around $.25-.50 a book, on ebay I sold books for $5-6.

Base advice:

If you are going to your perminate flying base-- buy rather than rent if you aren't living on base-- especially since you get VA, and it's generally a sellers market in military communities (despite what the economists say)

Minot-- best place to live is west of town, if you are living downtown. It's expanding. If you live just outside of town you save about $1200-3000 a year in taxes.

On base at minot, don't put anything in the basement-- they flood.

Also pitbulls are illegal, if you own one you have to live outside of town or on base. You will get a police escort on base if you travel to minot with one. Most vets won't treat them either.

For spouses high employment rate, LOW wages... Chamber of commerce keeps the wages near minimum wage. A teacher with 5 years experience gets paid less than $30K a year. Lots of hospital jobs though. Minotians are notoriously CHEAP. You won't find good expensive brand names here if your SO is into shopping-- MPLS is 8 hours away. However, if you are into hunting, fishing, or biking there are some really good stores. There's over 30 miles of bike trails in and around city proper, and about three road bike stores.

Cannon-- I lived east of town, but the neighborhood I lived in was hit by tornado. Base housing there is not on base. It's about 15 miles east of base. The Shifty Fifty owns the town. There is a new cancer ward built there, and the university in Portales is expanding-- good jobs for wives.

It's been too long since I have been to Keesler or Barksdale. I know Keesler is in the crapper because of rebuilding.

Finally, no offense to any priors here-- if you buy a house-- don't rent it to a bunch of airmen. We ended up with around $20-30K in damage due to an idiot who didn't know the functionality of an ashtray.

That's about all I can think of right now.... Probably come up with more.

[Guest KM]

PCS advice if you have kids.*

* I don't have kids, so I cannot vouch for the validity of these suggestions. Simply passing them along in the hopes that someone will benefit from them.

1. Make sure your kids hear the news from you first. Children are extremely perceptive and can generally tell when something out of the norm is taking place. They trust their parents to keep them informed.

2. Empower your children to make as many decisions as possible. Maybe they can have some say over the time of a move, or in the type of neighborhood you'll live in.

3. Let family priorities guide your decisions.

4. Do your research about cost of living, quality of schools, availability of day care, suitability of neighborhoods, and proximity of shopping, houses of worship and local amenities.

5. Carefully consider when the move should take place.

6. Involve your children in plans for family pets- taking care of a pet can be a welcome distraction, and the promise of a new pet may increase the appeal of a new home.

7. If no one volunteers to do so, don't be afraid to throw your own goodbye party.

8. Take tangible keepsakes with you; memories can fade quickly.

9. Recognize the importance of your child's personal belongings, which are often sources of security and comfort.

10. Use the move as a chance to reorganize: Develop a to-do list, get rid of clutter, store small items in small containers, let kids develop organizational systems, and break large projects into small tasks.

11. Make the move an adventure--go on a a treasure hunt for landmarks in your new community, take photos or videos, and prepare for the actual physical move by bringing a bag of treats for each child and playing games while flying or riding in the car.

12. Support your children as they mourn leaving behind familiar people, places and routines.

13. Take deliberate steps to ease the transition to a new school—visit before enrolling your children so they become familiar with the building, the rules and the teachers. Or explore the school’s Web site, then call and talk with the principal, guidance counselor or a teacher. If your child has specific needs, make sure they’re known.

14. Make the most of a temporary home—place framed family pictures around the rooms, bring your own comforters and pillows so sleeping areas look familiar, clean less and play more, and relax some family rules.

15. Don’t wait for new friends to come to you. Introduce yourself to others, invite other kids over to play, host a get-acquainted party, get involved in school activities.

16. Even if you know this is a short-term move, approach it as if it’s not. Settle in, make friends, become a part of the community.

17. Create a sense of belonging in your new home—learn about local history and geography, visit museums and historical sites, attend festivals, read the newspaper, try the cuisine.

18. Always remember that being a part of a loving family is what’s most important.

19. If the resources you need aren’t there—organized activities, child care, ways to get acquainted –take a leadership role in creating them.

20. Send out your own welcome wagon by taking the initiative in welcoming other newcomers.

21. Don’t forget to take care of yourself during the stress of a move.

22. Keep in touch with old friends.

23. Model a positive attitude, even during dissatisfaction with the moving experience, and find things to laugh about.

24. Use storytelling to celebrate your family history—spend time looking at photos, watch home videos, talk about the places you’ve lived.

25. View the experience as a new beginning—swap piano lessons for dance classes, try a different sport, get new haircuts.

[Finance_Guy]

I made a list of people/places that you will need to change your address with. Obviously it will be different for each person but I tried to make it general.

Another address to update is your MyPay account. Along with addresses, don't forget about bank account info if you do get a new bank at the new PDS. Be sure to update MyPay for your payroll, if applicable. One that seems to get missed more often lately is the account information in DTS. Be sure to view your information in your profile the first time you create a new authorization. You can edit the account info prior to signing the authorization or voucher. Check the box to update to your permanent profile and you'll be set for all subsequent claims. When your DTS account is detached from your old unit and later received to the new, the account info stays intact. I know many have separate accounts for the travel voucher payments.

[M2]

A little sponsor advice...

If you have someone arriving, especially someone with family with them, a cooler full of about 3-4 days worth of food (bread, peanut butter, lunch meats, cereal, milk, water, sodas, etc.) is a welcomed sight. The Army major that was my sponsor when I got to Belgium did that, and it turned into a tradition for the three people I sponsored during my time there.

The key to any PCS is a good sponsor. Get in touch with him/her early and talk a lot. Let your spouses talk to their spouses, even kids to kids if the ages are close. Email makes this easy. I have to say that although I felt I was pretty self-sufficient during the numerous PCS moves we made during my career, in retrospect the ones that were easier were the ones where we had a great sponsor.

Cheers! M2

[Guest salokin]

Quick question:

I commissioned in may, but I haven't EAD'd yet. I have a wife and two kids, but my EAD/PCS orders say nothing about dependents. The only proof that of them being my dependents is a marriage certificate and birth certificates. I called my det and they said that they can't put them on my orders via some reg.

Is this going to be problematic when I try to get DLA/per diem/BAH for my first PCS (coming up shortly)? If it is, who should I call to get it fixed? And when, before I get there, or after?

Thanks for the help. I really don't want to get stiffed b/c of some piece of paper/reg.

EDIT: To clarify a bit, it does say "EAD orders do not require dependents for stateside moves," but it still seems fishy to me. Any input on this would be great.

EDIT #2: I answered my own question via google, so nevermind.

Edited June 17, 2007 by salokin

[The Decider]

Here's a question:

If I got an C-17 to Elemendorf out of UPT and my wife wants to stay with the kids at her mom's while I do C-17 training at Altus how would the BAH work for those 3-4 months? I'm in base housing right now. Would I start getting BAH for my UPT base the day I sign out or for Elmendorf? Thanks.

[brabus]

To the OP, yes you can and should take the alloted time they give you. Sure you could just power through and drive it in 2-3 days, but might as well take it a bit slower, stop and see some places/people you want to and collect money while you're at it. That way you're not driving 12-15 hrs a day which sucks major ass, and you can see some friends, the Grand Canyon, whatever. Just my opinion.

Decider: If you're going to Altus and you're family is staying wherever, you should get BAH wherever they are...or at least that's what I've been told. Either way, when you move out of family housing on base, they've got to pay you BAH from somewhere, so at the very least it would just stay at the UPT base, but I've been told you can get BAH for wherever your in-law's house is. Don't know the validity behind that.

[Guest LtThor]

Here's a question:

If I got an C-17 to Elemendorf out of UPT and my wife wants to stay with the kids at her mom's while I do C-17 training at Altus how would the BAH work for those 3-4 months? I'm in base housing right now. Would I start getting BAH for my UPT base the day I sign out or for Elmendorf? Thanks.

You will get BAH from your UPT location. That is, as long as you move out of base housing. I think it only works that way if you are an "Out and Back" to Altus, not TDY Enroute. You'll have to work with TMO and MPF though. You can get a "letter in lou of" to get your house hold goods shipped, because you probably won't have orders to Elemendorf.

[HerkStud]

I am PCS'ing from NY to Vance AFB for UPT. I am doing a DITTY move. How do I go about doing this ? My finance office and TMO gave me little to no help with it. They said that I have to go to fort hamilton to have my car weighed empty and then full. Fort hamilton is about 2 hours away from me. Can I just go to the town dump and have my car weighed empty and loaded and just keep the receipts ? What paper work do I need to do a DITTY move ? Is that something I can get online. I appreciate any help I can get because I dont know how to do it and it looks like I will be losing out on money again.

Edited August 24, 2007 by HerkStud

[F-15E WSO]

I am PCS'ing from NY to Vance AFB for UPT. I am doing a DITTY move. How do I go about doing this ? My finance office and TMO gave me little to no help with it. They said that I have to go to fort hamilton to have my car weighed empty and then full. Fort hamilton is about 2 hours away from me. Can I just go to the town dump and have my car weighed empty and loaded and just keep the receipts ? What paper work do I need to do a DITTY move ? Is that something I can get online. I appreciate any help I can get because I dont know how to do it and it looks like I will be losing out on money again.

You can get it weighed anywhere. Just get the ticket that shows the before/after weight. You can have it weighed full as you leave, then empty at your new location if it works best for you. Google truck scales or something along those lines. I had it done at a feed store.

[HercDude]

You can indeed get your vehicle and trailer weighed anywhere. Keep the recipt and weigh ticket and make sure you note weather it's the empty weight or the loaded weight. TMO needs to generate paperwork for you to authorize you for the partial DITY, so you need to get this before you move. I am TDY enroute right now and before I left my last base they specifically said that you are no longer allowed to do a partial DITY and claim it when you get to your new duty station. You must have the paperwork submitted and approved before you depart.

You need to go back to TMO and tell them to do their job.

[Finance_Guy]

You need to go back to TMO and tell them to do their job.

Agreed. The link below may also provide you some additional information. One of the IMCs has this text:

"IF A MEMBER ELECTS TO PERSONALLY PROCURE TRANSPORTATION AND/OR NTS OF HOUSEHOLD GOODS (HHG) THE TRANSPORTATION OFFICE MUST PROVIDE COUNSELING ON A DD FORM 2278 PRIOR TO THE BEGINNING OF THE MOVE. "

http://afmove.hq.af.mil/page_traffic.asp

There's an AF Supplement to the JFTR that deals with Personally Procured Moves (PPM)--you can only access through the AF Portal now.

The attachment may be helpful as well.

Air_Force_Move_Your_Key_to_a_Successful_Move_20August2006.pdf