Atlas 767 (Amazon livery) Down

[ThreeHoler 643]

https://mobile.twitter.com/FAANews/status/1099399252554534912?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

 

Not many details.

[Majestik Møøse 477]

https://youtu.be/0cn58iVuzBY

[Genghis John 53]

🍺

[HuggyU2 1,493]

It's refreshing to come here and see people simply post information or condolences.  No one trying to be an NTSB investigator like they idiots on another forum I go to.  The shit they post is downright embarrassing... and disrespectful.  They are supposedly "aviators"... and most are pretty well to do...and I would expect they would know better.

Thanks for keeping it professional.  

[pcola 217]

Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[Craftsman 47]

🍺

[Inertia17 62]

[Tonka 167]

Sad news...

[pilot 66]

https://www.gofundme.com/sean-archuletas-family

Sean was commuting to his last trip at Mesa before he was to start at UAL. Sucks. RIP 

[M2 1,406]

1 hour ago, pilot said:

https://www.gofundme.com/sean-archuletas-family

Sean was commuting to his last trip at Mesa before he was to start at UAL. Sucks. RIP 

$62,825 raised by 1,223 people in 10 hours!  

[Stitch 180]

🥃

[matmacwc 1,795]

How does the civilian safety/accident process compare to the USAFs? @HuggyU2?

[HuggyU2 1,493]

14 hours ago, matmacwc said:

How does the civilian safety/accident process compare to the USAFs? @HuggyU2?

I avoided "safety stink" my entire USAF career.  And I've never been directly involved with anything on the civil/GA side.  

I'm not qualified to comment.  

[TreeA10 442]

I did interview with the NTSB when I left active duty but had no desire to move to the LA area but it was an option if a Hawg gig didn't show up.  While the NTSB does accident investigation for causal factors and makes recommendations to improve safety, the FAA has the hammer on regulations or mandatory equipment.  Just like the AF, politics and money are involved (although those two are redundant) so you really have to have something spectacular happen and kill a bunch of people before changes are made. 

[hindsight2020 418]

1 hour ago, HuggyU2 said:

I avoided "safety stink" my entire USAF career.  And I've never been directly involved with anything on the civil/GA side.  

I'm not qualified to comment.  

Nah don't be so self-deprecating, this is BODN, we're all qualified to comment! 😄 

[matmacwc 1,795]

There’s a video of it going down, and they found 1 of the black boxes today.

 

Edited March 8 by matmacwc
Found it

[pilot 66]

52 minutes ago, matmacwc said:

There’s a video of it going down, and they found 1 of the black boxes today.

 

The CVR and FDR were both found. Initial CVR info is already out. https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/mr20190305.aspx

Edited March 8 by pilot

[donkey 79]

Investigation Update

Of note, the report initially said the following:

Quote

Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up and then rapidly pitched nose down to about 49° in response to column input. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.

and was changed to:

Quote

Shortly after, when the airplane’s indicated airspeed was steady about 230 knots, the engines increased to maximum thrust, and the airplane pitch increased to about 4° nose up. The airplane then pitched nose down over the next 18 seconds to about 49° in response to nose-down elevator deflection. The stall warning (stick shaker) did not activate.

 

[LookieRookie 199]

29 minutes ago, donkey said:

Investigation Update

Of note, the report initially said the following:

and was changed to:

 

That's crazy. I wonder what the CVR has on it.

Malfunction or suicide.

FLCS malf pushed them to 49 NL and they only cut 29 degrees before impact.

OR

Max power dive into the ground with the other pilot pulling the yolk back to 20 NL prior to impact.

[torqued 285]

52 minutes ago, LookieRookie said:

That's crazy. I wonder what the CVR has on it.

Malfunction or suicide.

FLCS malf pushed them to 49 NL and they only cut 29 degrees before impact.

OR

Max power dive into the ground with the other pilot pulling the yolk back to 20 NL prior to impact.

Not suicide. A few ways for this to happen. Example:

Say they level off in turbulence and accidentally or mistakenly push the TO/GA, perhaps in an attempt to disengage autothrottles. Autopilot may or may not automatically disconnect depending on altitude and flaps, but aircraft initially pitches up rapidly as throttles move toward max. Control column gets shoved forward with nose down trim running. Autopilot disconnects. If both pilots are making different elevator inputs, fighting each other when they think they're fighting the aircraft and/or weather, one control column will breakout (if it's like other Boeing aircraft). The nose down elevator yoke wins the fight and confusion ensues as both yokes move indepedently.

I'm not saying that's what happened. Only saying there are a few reasons why the yoke/elevator would command nose down outside of someone suddenly deciding to end it all after a 2 hour flight deviating around weather.

[WheelzUp 16]

31 minutes ago, torqued said:

Not suicide. A few ways for this to happen. Example:

Say they level off in turbulence and accidentally or mistakenly push the TO/GA, perhaps in an attempt to disengage autothrottles. Autopilot may or may not automatically disconnect depending on altitude and flaps, but aircraft initially pitches up rapidly as throttles move toward max. Control column gets shoved forward with nose down trim running. Autopilot disconnects. If both pilots are making different elevator inputs, fighting each other when they think they're fighting the aircraft and/or weather, one control column will breakout (if it's like other Boeing aircraft). The nose down elevator yoke wins the fight and confusion ensues as both yokes move indepedently.

I'm not saying that's what happened. Only saying there are a few reasons why the yoke/elevator would command nose down outside of someone suddenly deciding to end it all after a 2 hour flight deviating around weather.

Perhaps some of these things could have contributed to the autopilot kicking off, as well as a momentary loss of altitude/pitch control.  But dude...full throttle with 49 degrees nose low followed by a 7000 foot vertical loss???  There is more to this story.  

 

[D_Vezencuando 1]

Caveat: This is not speculation on or a comparison to past accidents.

Technical perspective on a 767 Pitch Control Actuator failure and/or split control input can be found on Page 54 of NTSB's EgyptAir 900 Final Report. 

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAB0201.pdf 

Fly Safe.

[xaarman 160]

FYI the NTSB updated their language to remove the "implications."

 

 

[TreeA10 442]

I've flown most Boeing jets and have done a real go around the 727, 737, 757, and 767. Never say never but I can't envision hitting TOGA well outside causing anything dramatic resulting in such an excessive reaction. 

[torqued 285]

4 hours ago, TreeA10 said:

I've flown most Boeing jets and have done a real go around the 727, 737, 757, and 767. Never say never but I can't envision hitting TOGA well outside causing anything dramatic resulting in such an excessive reaction. 

I agree it would be unusual, but most if not nearly all crashes are caused by accidents, mistakes and failures, not suicides. I don't think it's right to go down that path just yet only to satisfy our desire to fill in the missing piece of the puzzle.