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kapilot

Reserve 135’s Shifting to 4 Month Taskings?!?!?!

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22 minutes ago, SurelySerious said:

So there is no hope?

The only "hope" remaining is that enough people walk when this 120 nonsense formally drops to wake up institutionalized zombies into listening to people at the reserve squadron level... and for once come to terms with the FACT that in this environment... YOU WILL NOT RETAIN PILOTS (and for that matter, aircrew in general) BY TAKING RIGID APPROACHES IN YOUR DEPLOYMENT POLICIES. People clearly have options and WILL execute them faster than AFRC can reverse their poor management choices. I'd tell anyone with a star on a shoulder that you'd better start listening and offering some flex to the membership because between FAMILY/CIVJOB/AF.... AF, AFRC, ANG is gonna loose that every time for foreseeable future. Then again that assumes that anyone with a star on their shoulder cares... a strong assumption at this point.

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On 2/20/2019 at 10:10 PM, Cheddar said:

These people don’t care about you, your family or your life.

 

I’ve had some really great years out of the 23 I’ve been in. But these idiots have no idea what they are doing. None of the people in charge have ANY idea of the TR’s life and commitments to family and other careers. That’s criminal, negligent, and may end up costing us the AFRC we knew and barely tolerated.

 

We are just starting to hemorrhage pilots and the airlines are just starting to hit the huge retirement numbers. And AFRC says, “hey AD, hold my beer!”

 

Glad my retirement papers are in and ~3000 under me at the other job. But I’m sad for those that are stuck as ARTs or those still entangled in commitments. Many of my best friends are wondering ‘what now?’ and ‘why?’

 

GET OUT or change jobs before you get tasked. These people don’t care about you, your family or your life.

 

 

 

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Yep, this is what you want to see before joining the guard to fly..

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I'm baffled why any new hopeful pilots even consider the Air Force after visiting this site.

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Yep, this is what you want to see before joining the guard to fly..


Insert name... this thread is not about the guard. Don’t assume that what’s mentioned here about AFRC applies there. The 3 branches are very different from one another. I urge you to use caution and perspective as you read these forums.
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4 hours ago, kapilot said:

 


Insert name... this thread is not about the guard. Don’t assume that what’s mentioned here about AFRC applies there. The 3 branches are very different from one another. I urge you to use caution and perspective as you read these forums.

 

Shack. There’s A LOT of cynical sport bitching on here. Not saying there isn’t an element of truth to some of it, but young guys should absolutely pursue flying in the military. It will most likely be an awesome experience and a 1000% better way to spend your 20s flying than slugging through regionals. 

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4 hours ago, brabus said:

It will most likely be an awesome experience and a 1000% better way to spend your 20s

Yep. It's the 30s and 40s where it gets to be problematic.

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9 hours ago, brabus said:

It will most likely be an awesome experience and a 1000% better way to spend your 20s flying than slugging through regionals. 

Depends on the person. But let’s not sit here and pretend like the military route is always the right (or the best) choice.

For a lot of guys, it turns out to be a mistake, though an ultimately profitable one.

Edited by joe1234

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Depends on the person. But let’s not sit here and pretend like the military route is always the right (or the best) choice.
For a lot of guys, it turns out to be a mistake, though an ultimately profitable one.


Although this is (or used to be) a military/AF/Guard/Reserve forum... I actually agree with your overall point. We have been, as a professional all volunteer force, a jobs program of sorts. It’s how the marketing has been since the mid 80’s, ‘look what we can do for you, now sign here.’

While this was especially true for enlisted skill sets, there’s very few places that you can get the flying education you get in the armed services and all without the onerous debt of a puppy mill or private education. The same was true with our medical corps and to some extent JAGs.

Ok, so that all being said, many of us in ARC, and AFRC tankers in general chose a lifestyle that fit our career goals and most importantly our family’s needs.

The concern I see is the same really in every poorly run institution or company. Ill defined goals/mission and (at best) Poor sycophantic leadership.

This doesn’t mean that the military in itself is ‘bad’ or that we don’t have a ‘good’ mission. It also doesn’t exclude the odd CC that has awesome tactical prowess and is a great leader. But the vast majority of our “management team” is not there because they are the best and brightest, and I’ve rarely seen a spine among any of them.

I’ve nothing against career ARTs, as they are needed for the efficacy in ARC. The issue is when career ARTs - with ZERO experience in having another career (whether the airline pilot, corporate/contract pilots in small flight departments, or oil and gas engineers, electricians, farmers and/or various small business owners), the career ART has the stranglehold of policy on something they can never hope to grasp.

They have refused to tell their masters “no.” We can’t do it. The 4 star looks at the 3 star and asks ‘can you do more with less?’ and the ART 3 star says ‘much more, and with even less!’ That’s a criminal lack in leadership when you let your logistics fall behind your mission. That’s killed more militaries than almost anything else.

There’s really only two ways to solve the issues at hand - reduce the mission, or tell the executive/congress the mission cannot be done with what we have. Plus up Active Duty and return ARC to a surge force and ready reserve ONLY in times of strategic need.

For us in the trenches, as hard as it is to do sometimes, we just need to be able to say ‘no’ as well. This is still an all volunteer force, and my feet are walking.


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Shack. There’s A LOT of cynical sport bitching on here. Not saying there isn’t an element of truth to some of it, but young guys should absolutely pursue flying in the military. It will most likely be an awesome experience and a 1000% better way to spend your 20s flying than slugging through regionals. 


I’m not sure this particular thread is about sport bitching. We are again being asked to do more with less, to the detriment of the overall security of the country.

Without getting into the weeds or spilling state secrets, tankers have always had ONE primary mission, and it wasn’t sitting in the ‘deid taking off so that someone else could have a parking spot. Our overall strategic mission is suffering, and this damn sure won’t help when our JO’s go to T-tails, IMA’s or just leave.

I wouldn’t change my military career for anything, but it’s been 20+ years and I’ve seen the good, and I’m shaking my damn head at the bad.


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To be clear... this is not sport bitching. These are legitimate concerns and frustrations being aired by people who are doing a job they love with people they consider a family. However everyone has a limit and 120s in the 135 AFRC will hit that limit for a lot and there will be a noticeable result. How many of you out there already have problems getting an AFRC 135 tanker for a local, much less a drag, when you need one? How much harder will that be after 120s are a reality?

Blanket statements, stating that military flying is the best way to a pilot career is a biased statement and poor advice. Anyone rushing for a UPT slot needs to understand that the pilot job market has changed drastically in recent years, and what was true yesterday doesn’t make it true today. The pilot job is a true market with all the fluctuations and emotions driving it that move other markets. The only constant is change. I can promise you that the likelihood of your sponsored squadrons tempo today won’t be the same as when your return from training 2+ yrs later. Doesn’t mean you should run the other way!

The reality of today, is if you want to be an airline pilot this MAY be a good path for you but then again it MAY not be. You will have to determine that for yourself by seeking conversations with honest opinions. And have enough wisdom to realize that a person further into life has a different worldview of someone in their 20s without a wife or kids.

Now back to 120s please.

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1 hour ago, kapilot said:

Anyone rushing for a UPT slot needs to understand that the pilot job market has changed drastically in recent years, and what was true yesterday doesn’t make it true today. The pilot job is a true market with all the fluctuations and emotions driving it that move other markets. The only constant is change. I can promise you that the likelihood of your sponsored squadrons tempo today won’t be the same as when your return from training 2+ yrs later. Doesn’t mean you should run the other way!

Truth data. Granted I’m a fighter dude, but when I raised my hand over a decade ago, we were doing 45 day deployments WITH a swapout at the halfway point. Fast forward to getting back from the B-course 5 years ago and now I walk right into 3 month deployments (TSP bullshit) as standard. Not that it was that big of a change but it was a real fun conversation to have with the fraü after I sold her on the “at most 45 days” pitch before I joined up. Change is a coming. 

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1 hour ago, mp5g said:

Truth data. Granted I’m a fighter dude, but when I raised my hand over a decade ago, we were doing 45 day deployments WITH a swapout at the halfway point. Fast forward to getting back from the B-course 5 years ago and now I walk right into 3 month deployments (TSP bullshit) as standard. Not that it was that big of a change but it was a real fun conversation to have with the fraü after I sold her on the “at most 45 days” pitch before I joined up. Change is a coming. 

I assume you’re a viper dude. What’s your forecast for ANG/AFRC viper deployment ops tempo over the next 3-6-9 years? (sorry for the continued thread drift). 

Edited by pilot

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On 2/23/2019 at 4:04 AM, joe1234 said:

Depends on the person. But let’s not sit here and pretend like the military route is always the right (or the best) choice.

For a lot of guys, it turns out to be a mistake, though an ultimately profitable one.

Of course it depends...but I also think it’s hyperbole to say “a lot” of guys find years 0~11 to be a mistake. I would buy “a lot” of guys generally enjoyed their LT-capt/young maj years (in spite of their natural love for bitching), and would consider staying past initial commitment the actual mistake. This is from a CAF perspective, and I know it may not apply to other commands. That said, is life in the MAF/AFSOC truly magnitudes worse than the CAF? It does sound worse based on heresy from MAF bros, but I don’t get “unbelievably worse, made a huge mistake!” from those bros either. 

On 2/23/2019 at 7:54 AM, Cheddar said:

I’m not sure this particular thread is about sport bitching. 

It was a general statement, not necessarily applied to the specific situation of 120 day tanker deployments.

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It was a general statement, not necessarily applied to the specific situation of 120 day tanker deployments.


Which is what this thread is about.






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On 2/23/2019 at 1:44 PM, mp5g said:

Fast forward to getting back from the B-course 5 years ago and now I walk right into 3 month deployments (TSP bullshit) as standard. 

Oh man, TSPs...aka go fly CT on the other side of the globe.  These have done more to kill morale in our squadron than anything.  After multiple TSPs and potentially another one down the road, even our young guys have become jaded and said fuck it, if we're not going to do anything while, might as well go to the regionals to gain hours for the majors.  Hard to disagree with their frustrations. 

 

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What are you drinking tonight Cheddar?


Wasn’t enough apparently




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4 hours ago, SocialD said:

Oh man, TSPs...aka go fly CT on the other side of the globe.  These have done more to kill morale in our squadron than anything.  After multiple TSPs and potentially another one down the road, even our young guys have become jaded and said fuck it, if we're not going to do anything while, might as well go to the regionals to gain hours for the majors.  Hard to disagree with their frustrations. 

 

 

Hell, you just described my short tenure in the CAF (we called it CBP but it's the same shit), and the morale crush that lead up to 2007, and we all know what happened then. Now granted, I was an interloper in that community since day one (had zero intention of flying heavies any longer than necessary) but still, that make-work shit was also antagonizing the lifers too.

I didn't join the flying vocation because I wanted to fly airliners, so the opportunity costs of stay/go were not the same for me. That said, it is certainly tough to reconcile this daily hassle when cats with my flying resume are getting paid $138/credit-hr second year plus B-fund and not getting sweat about pee tests, PME finger wagging, dealing with the "what are you stealing from me today?" patronizing environment wrt participation requirements and daily schedules (aka BONA FIDE Active Duty), let alone special bad deal projects like these TSP/CBP or worse, invol IA make-work pedestrian deployments. 

 Thing is, it doesn't appear to me that they have any intention on giving an inch in the manner in which they go about these taskers. And I'll be honest, if we can't get traction on these QOL issues in THIS civilian hiring environment, then seriously, wtf are we even doing discussing this. It appears as though there's enough Reservists out there who are content with their lot, if Wings seem to be able to continue to peddle green manning slides to the Command in the midst of these taskers.

I suppose I can see the fighter guys eating bad deals to "still get to fly a fighter". I certainly had zero intention of behaving the same when I was fighting perennial vocational-narcolepsy at the helm of a bomber or nuke vault. I can't speak for the MAF guys but I figure the dynamics would be similar, especially with airline job in hand. To each their own, but I don't see things getting better, if they haven't done so already in present hiring.

Edited by hindsight2020
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