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Scooter14

New Tech/ART pay tables

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, roto said:

I think something worth mentioning, and someone correct me if I’m wrong, is although ANG starts at 13 those slots are harder to come by (especially in heavy units) than in the AFRC (especially for low time 1Lt types).

Until they started offering GS-13, we couldn't give our tech spots away.  We have been filling our tech spots with guys right off seasoning because no one else wanted them.  Before they started handing out GS-13 like candy, some guys chose to just go to the regionals to build time (some are still going to the regionals anyway).  Up until recently anyone who wanted a tech spot in my squadron, could have had one.   The only reason it's changing is because we're swapping tech spots for AGRs as guys move out of their technician spots...almost all of them to move to AGR or airlines.  I can't remember the last person that retired as a technician in my squadron.  Now getting an AGR, that's a different story.  Right now, that will take some time. 

As always, timing is everything though.  When I was finished seasoning it was the exact opposite.  You could have all the orders you wanted (Temp-AGR/ADOS), but getting a tech spot was nearly impossible.  If they did offer you one it was GS-12 step 1 until you were an IP.  I'm sure the pendulum will swing the other way some day.  

For reference this is a fighter squadron with an alert mission, so YMMV.

 

Quote

In the AFRC, from what I understand, you’re guaranteed a technician slot as soon as you’re off seasoning.

...as a GS-9!  🤢 I guess at the end of the day, it is a job.  

 

Quote

Thats the only the trade off I can come up with when comparing the two. I’m a guard guy looking at switching to AFRC and I’m gonna miss the good ol state militia, but as far as setting up shop and building time with a solid financial plan I think AFRC is might be the way to go. 

Having a few friends that have switched from ANG to AFRC, there are A LOT more than a few tradeoffs, especially if you're moving from a stand alone Guard base to a Reserve squadron co-located with the AD...A LOT!

Edited by SocialD

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2 hours ago, SocialD said:

Until they started offering GS-13, we couldn't give our tech spots away.  We have been filling our tech spots with guys right off seasoning because no one else wanted them.  Before they started handing out GS-13 like candy, some guys chose to just go to the regionals to build time (some are still going to the regionals anyway).  Up until recently anyone who wanted a tech spot in my squadron, could have had one.   The only reason it's changing is because we're swapping tech spots for AGRs as guys move out of their technician spots...almost all of them to move to AGR or airlines.  I can't remember the last person that retired as a technician in my squadron.  Now getting an AGR, that's a different story.  Right now, that will take some time. 

As always, timing is everything though.  When I was finished seasoning it was the exact opposite.  You could have all the orders you wanted (Temp-AGR/ADOS), but getting a tech spot was nearly impossible.  If they did offer you one it was GS-12 step 1 until you were an IP.  I'm sure the pendulum will swing the other way some day.  

For reference this is a fighter squadron with an alert mission, so YMMV.

 

...as a GS-9!  🤢 I guess at the end of the day, it is a job.  

 

Having a few friends that have switched from ANG to AFRC, there are A LOT more than a few tradeoffs, especially if you're moving from a stand alone Guard base to a Reserve squadron co-located with the AD...A LOT!

 

Right, by trade off's I mean redeaming features of the AFRC. And I couldn't agree more, AFRC on an AD base would be no bueno.

And for what it's worth, AFRC gals go to GS-11 At 300 hours which includes UPT time, so you should start there at the end of seasoning. A little better. Not throwing Spears just correcting the record.

I'm just trying to wrap my a cranium around the differences in pay between AFRC and ANG. I don't want to believe that the reserve's just pay their peeps less for the same job (more deployments) as ANG to save a few bucks. Right?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, roto said:

 

Right, by trade off's I mean redeaming features of the AFRC. And I couldn't agree more, AFRC on an AD base would be no bueno.

And for what it's worth, AFRC gals go to GS-11 At 300 hours which includes UPT time, so you should start there at the end of seasoning. A little better. Not throwing Spears just correcting the record.

I'm just trying to wrap my a cranium around the differences in pay between AFRC and ANG. I don't want to believe that the reserve's just pay their peeps less for the same job (more deployments) as ANG to save a few bucks. Right?

According to my hiring manager at my Reserve unit (GS-12 ART), UPT time does not count, only MDS hours count. Maybe every unit is different?

Edited by Jetpower

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I was told GS-11 after seasoning. That being said, none of us who have been told GS-11, have it in writing. 

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Having a few friends that have switched from ANG to AFRC, there are A LOT more than a few tradeoffs, especially if you're moving from a stand alone Guard base to a Reserve squadron co-located with the AD...A LOT!

Unless you are a senior O-4 or already an O-5 and have less than 3-4 years to go to an AD retirement (and really... how many units have people like that these days?), converting to AGR with the new GS-13 payscales and ART bonuses isn't worth it. You can easily make north of $150k per year (some over $200k) as an ART now. This ART to AGR conversion came almost a decade too late. Now they've got one program fighting against the other. I know somebody who converted and wants to go back to being a technician because he took a pay cut and had more flexibility with the technician leave system. If you want to be a free agent and make a lot of money, stay a technician. If the initiative to convert technicians to AGR's happened 6 or 7 years ago, we probably would have kept at least half of the fulltime FGO's we have lost over the last 5 years, to include myself.

 

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Posted (edited)

Theoretically, a brand new copilot should have 300 MDS hours to be a GS-11 following a prog tour if the UPT hours did not count. However, your MDS hours at the end of your prog tour depend on the length of your prog tour and the hours you accumulate at FTU. Maybe your unit is kind enough to keep you on the prog tour until you reach 300 MDS hours so that you can skip GS-9 and go straight to GS-11.   

 

Edited by Jetpower

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1 hour ago, Gazmo said:

Unless you are a senior O-4 or already an O-5 and have less than 3-4 years to go to an AD retirement (and really... how many units have people like that these days?), converting to AGR with the new GS-13 payscales and ART bonuses isn't worth it. You can easily make north of $150k per year (some over $200k) as an ART now.

If you're simply looking to make as much money while waiting for an airline to call and no hope of an AGR retirement, then I don't disagree.  Actually, that's exactly what I would have done if they had offered me GS-13 (plus the bonus) and not GS-12 step 1.  We happen to have a handful of guys with a decent amount of AGR time from their enlisted days.  They'll soon be looking at 16-18 year Major (plus big AGR bonus) and < 6-9 years to an AGR pension.  I don't blame them for angling toward AGRs.

 

1 hour ago, Gazmo said:

 I know somebody who converted and wants to go back to being a technician because he took a pay cut and had more flexibility with the technician leave system.

Our AGRs have much better flexibility than our Techs.  We may be a unicorn but our scheduling is pretty well optimized for QOL of the AGRs.  If Techs don't sit alert, it's just the standard 4x10s + working their mil time. 

 

1 hour ago, Gazmo said:

If you want to be a free agent and make a lot of money, stay a technician. 

100% agree.

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