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How Long For New Studs To Be Disillusioned?

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1 hour ago, HuggyU2 said:

Step 7:  you now have the money to get serious about other forms of recreational aviation.  Go to Oshkosh... go to the Reno Races and roam through the pits... find the passion for cool aviation that has waned.  Go find something fun to do at your local airport.  

Nathan Fillion Castle GIF

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On 9/22/2018 at 12:14 PM, euser said:

I don’t bring a negative attitude to work. I always try to do my job but the best I can regardless of how I feel towards it. I have been enjoying it more the longer I’ve been distanced from AETC. I’m coming off more negative about it than I actually am because I’m just bitching on the internet. I love the guys I work with. 

I have thought about that, as well as a 38 or T-6 instructor. I’ll see how I feel towards the end of this ops tour. Everything was just much different than my initial expectation going in. I feel like educating people about the real Air Force is something AETC is very bad with. I had no idea what UPT or the CAF would be like when I was picked up for a pilot slot. 

First of all, never tell anyone that you're even .001% regretful for where you ended up. If the response from internet strangers is any indication, the people around you will be incredibly vindictive if you let that little bit of info slip out. It's fucked up, but that's how it is. There are plenty of commanders who will be personally offended that your life's dream isn't to be exactly like them, and will try to fuck you over because you're "ungrateful". No matter how cool he/she seems, never assume because the consequences can be devastating for you.

Second, there's temporary ways out. For example, TPS if you're a prior engineer. U-2/Global Hawks/ALO/Foreign Area Officer/etc. You gotta do your research but you're not confined to your squadron for the next 10 years. But you really gotta dig. Ask people who have done it before. Call up your functional and see what's out there. Call up any mentors or former instructors. You can probably even crosstrain to a heavy while still AD -- it's much easier to go fighter -> heavy than the other way around.

Third, once you get to the end of your commitment, you can join pretty much any unit and fly any plane you're able to get hired for. Or, you can even crosstrain to a nonflying job and just be a 9-5 AGR/ART type dude living where you want to live. If you have no desire to fly airplanes anymore, then, well, there's more than one way to get permanently DNIF'd. Of all the things the military can force you to do, it can't force you to sign for a jet and go fly. Yeah, there's consequences, but unless you plan on making a career out of it. And that's active duty -- once you go guard/reserves the slate is kinda wiped clean (unless you did something really fucked up).

It gets better.

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On 9/21/2018 at 9:45 PM, euser said:

 If I could trade in my wings to break this obligation I would. 

You can. 

1.  Request an FEB under AFI11-401, para 4.3.7.3. 

2.  Request a VILO under para 4.4.6.

3.  Hope for separation under 4.4.6.2, with the understanding that you may also be assigned to an nonflying job.

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35 minutes ago, General Chang said:

Second core value, people.  

Just do 20.  Payoff is yuge.

Exactly.

I don't know anyone who doesn't understand the value in Service before self.

But I know very few remaining that blindly accept that all the things they are now required to do qualify as Service.

Disingenuously appealing to a person's moral convictions is a far greater sin than not possessing enough.

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1 hour ago, General Chang said:

Second core value, people.  

Just do 20.  Payoff is yuge.

 

why not 19.69? surely all the money saved through retiree benefits is worth it...

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what's worse is being disillusioned from one of the earlier assignments and you say fuck this, I'm out.  Go on to a new assignment/deployment/unit that gives you hope in the big blue machine, only to be crushed again when the good deal/time runs out.  You end up drinking yourself into a stupor and wonder why you fall for this shit twice... 

*in theory only, not from personal experience

Edited by panchbarnes
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4 minutes ago, panchbarnes said:

what's worse is being disillusioned from one of the earlier assignments and you say this, I'm out.  Go on to a new assignment/deployment/unit that gives you hope in the big blue machine, only to be crushed again when the good deal/time runs out.  You end up drinking yourself into a stupor and wonder why you fall for this shit twice... 

*in theory only, not from personal experience

Shack.

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1 hour ago, panchbarnes said:

what's worse is being disillusioned from one of the earlier assignments and you say fuck this, I'm out.  Go on to a new assignment/deployment/unit that gives you hope in the big blue machine, only to be crushed again when the good deal/time runs out.  You end up drinking yourself into a stupor and wonder why you fall for this shit twice... 

*in theory only, not from personal experience

Because you only drink 1-2 times a month with 3 or less drinks?

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2 hours ago, LookieRookie said:

Because you only drink 1-2 times a month with 3 or less drinks?

Only if you are in a location that serves, otherwise best go make friends with TF

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On 9/22/2018 at 6:35 AM, euser said:

I never claim for it to be all the Air Force’s fault. I have more important priorities outside the Air Force. I don’t think flying military aircraft is worth putting my family through hell, working so much the kid barely knows you, only being able to live in shitty locations where your spouse struggles to find a professional career of their own, and having absolutely no control of your life. When I have the 10 seconds every other flight that I’m not stressed about getting flight violated, killing someone, killing myself, or being bad at my job it can be enjoyable. My bitterness really started when I was forced 38’s under the guise of universal assignability and that I’ll still be able to get a C-5, and then dropped an 11F when the only thing lower was AFSOC airframes. Yes, I had AWACS above all fighters. Our T-1s even dropped a C-5. I understand a lot of people would give a lot to be an 11F, but I’m also in a community where all they do is shit on other MWSs that people work hard for because it doesn’t have an afterburner or pull 9G’s. Most of the guys my age care about nothing but killing people and going to war with no regard for life outside the military, it’s just not my goals. I could at least mitigate some family stressors if I was guard/reserve. On that note, I still do my job well whether I like it or not, but it is very draining. I still don’t have a desire to fly for the airlines though. 

AD sucks, still the best job ever.  You cannot do in civilian life what you do as an 11F, you can in a C-5.  Enjoy the ride while you are doing it, if you don't, you are doing it wrong.

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I saw a lot of bros start turning that way in UPT. When half the IPs tell you if you go:

Airlift - you’ll fly drones in 2 years

Bombers - you’ll never fly, then staff job

AFSOC - it won’t drop and they’re all divorced

Fighters - you work so hard you’ll hate your life and get out ASAP 

 

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That's a huge problem - every kid reading this who's going to UPT/in UPT, strongly consider this: besides the few guys who wanted a UPT assignment, many of your AD IPs are there because they were towards the bottom of their group when assignment time came. Doesn't mean they're bad pilots, not capable UPT IPs, or bad bros. But when you hear an IP making stupid, sweeping generalizations like above, take it with a grain of salt - many believe they got screwed, feel animosity towards a job/aircraft community because of the UPT assignment, etc. They're talking shit to make themselves feel better about their current lot in the AF. 

I saw this 11 years ago in UPT, it's nothing new. 

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13 minutes ago, brabus said:

That's a huge problem - every kid reading this who's going to UPT/in UPT, strongly consider this: besides the few guys who wanted a UPT assignment, many of your AD IPs are there because they were towards the bottom of their group when assignment time came. Doesn't mean they're bad pilots, not capable UPT IPs, or bad bros. But when you hear an IP making stupid, sweeping generalizations like above, take it with a grain of salt - many believe they got screwed, feel animosity towards a job/aircraft community because of the UPT assignment, etc. They're talking shit to make themselves feel better about their current lot in the AF. 

I saw this 11 years ago in UPT, it's nothing new. 

Lots of generalizations here. At the end of the day you can’t argue with a 40% take rate when the goal is 65%. I argue the take rate should be 75 or higher when you could make the case of flying fighters is the greatest job in the world. Something is probably wrong with the system.  From what I’ve seen most of the 38 IPs at my base that talk the most about getting out ASAP are the bomber and cargo guys.  6/9 of the fighter guys want to go back to their original MWS. 

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My post had nothing to do with the bonus. It's also is not defending AF bullshit. What it is doing is highlighting to new guys they're surrounded by "I got a raw deal" IPs who may provide above average jaded opinions of MDS/community X that are not shared by many of those who are still in said MDS/community.

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On 9/25/2018 at 5:10 PM, matmacwc said:

AD sucks, still the best job ever.  You cannot do in civilian life what you do as an 11F, you can in a C-5.  Enjoy the ride while you are doing it, if you don't, you are doing it wrong.

For me, the difference has always been the flightline ECP.  From the moment I step over and take the long walk to the aircraft, there is no job I'd rather have until I cross it again. Early on in my career, there was almost nothing I wouldn't do to be able to walk across that line and fly the aircraft. 

It all gets balanced by everything that happens on the other side of the ECP. If a person's interest lies in flying aircraft, it typically doesn't take but a few years to accomplish most of the general flying achievements available to you in your aircraft.

The problem among younger folks seems to be flying the same mission currencies for the X hundredth time doesn't offset the increasing level of frustration from everything on the other side of the ECP.

People are losing their enthusiasm for the best job in the world earlier than ever, and it isn't just because they're not looking at the bright side of things.

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