ClearedHot Posted March 25, 2018 Author Share Posted March 25, 2018 1 hour ago, torqued said: I'd love to hear a retired Colonel's argument, in his thread about the AF pilot shortage, as to why snowflakes (like me) shouldn't identify poor AF leadership or recognize a young IP's value to, and outside of, the AF. Just kidding. No I wouldn't. What you identify as poor leadership is actually someone asking you as an IP to be a fucking adult, sorry that is so difficult for you. Enjoy the airlines, I am sure you "me only" attitude will serve you quite well in the interview process. For the record I retired to get away from caustic leadership and a broken system, I think most of the people that served with me (some on here), know I was not into the you should be ridiculed because I was ridiculed routine, but getting offended because someone asks you to make sure you training paperwork is squared away...dear god, get the sand out of your vagina. 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dream big Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 17 minutes ago, ClearedHot said: What you identify as poor leadership is actually someone asking you as an IP to be a fucking adult, sorry that is so difficult for you. Enjoy the airlines, I am sure you "me only" attitude will serve you quite well in the interview process. For the record I retired to get away from caustic leadership and a broken system, I think most of the people that served with me (some on here), know I was not into the you should be ridiculed because I was ridiculed routine, but getting offended because someone asks you to make sure you training paperwork is squared away...dear god, get the sand out of your vagina. I agree with you that asking someone to do their job as an IP is not unreasonable; that was not a good example of said 06’s shitty leadership - there are numerous other examples that everyone can identify with that constitute the very caustic leadership that drove you out: for example, said 06 lecturing the DOs that this #unity march takes precedence over all and any mission planning for the day. Can we all agree that this is a valid criticism of today’s 06+ leadership force and one of the reasons that drive good dudes out? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaco Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, ClearedHot said: What you identify as poor leadership is actually someone asking you as an IP to be a ing adult, sorry that is so difficult for you. Enjoy the airlines, I am sure you "me only" attitude will serve you quite well in the interview process. For the record I retired to get away from caustic leadership and a broken system, I think most of the people that served with me (some on here), know I was not into the you should be ridiculed because I was ridiculed routine, but getting offended because someone asks you to make sure you training paperwork is squared away...dear god, get the sand out of your ######. If I'm reading correctly, the commander didn't ask them to do their jobs correctly. He threatened to revoke their IP status if they didn't do the job correctly, before any of them had actually screwed up. Does your chief pilot at the airlines proactively threaten you with punitive action? The supply and demand curves have shifted and the Air Force is losing the competition for talent. Commanders in need to think counterintuitively. If a commander actually cares about retaining people, the only way to do that is to ask, nicely. Even then, it is likely that macro forces outside of his control will dictate that a large number of pilots still leave. But maybe, just maybe, he can appeal to the best in his pilots and keep an additional one or two of them around that would have otherwise left. Edited March 25, 2018 by Flaco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearedHot Posted March 25, 2018 Author Share Posted March 25, 2018 1 minute ago, dream big said: I agree with you that asking someone to do their job as an IP is not unreasonable; that was not a good example of said 06’s shitty leadership - there are numerous other examples that everyone can identify with that constitute the very caustic leadership that drove you out: for example, said 06 lecturing the DOs that this #unity march takes precedence over all and any mission planning for the day. Can we all agree that this is a valid criticism of today’s 06+ leadership force and one of the reasons that drive good dudes out? Amen...Unity march, Everyone is a Warrior, punishing the entire base when one jackwagon gets a DUI, and sycophantic senior leaders with closets full of skeletons who serve only themselves...those are the reasons I got out. Also, for the the record I don;t think anyone needs a reason to get out. As an O-6 I spoke with multiple folks who were on the fence and the first thing I always said was "Thanks for your service, you are part of the 1% that raised your hand to serve and if you think getting out is the best thing for you and you family, godspeed, grateful you gave us the time you did." 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaco Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 45 minutes ago, Chuck17 said: So... if they’re going to be lost anyway, you make an interesting case for longer commitments and less bonus money... Yeesh. Chuck Chuck, The cynical side of me says the Air Force has already figured this out and has given up on retention. They will try to produce their way out of the hole. Pencil whip IP status, green up the slides. It's just going to be a much younger man's game. The machine will continue to function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheelsOff Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, Flaco said: If I'm reading correctly, the commander didn't ask them to do their jobs correctly. He threatened to revoke their IP status if they didn't do the job correctly, before any of them had actually screwed up. ^This. Exactly this. It was a threat that was made before anyone screwed the pooch. As to ClearedHot’s point, I also have no problem with setting the expectation to be an adult and do your job correctly. I would expect a leader to reiterate that fact. But, let’s not mince words or try to infer too much into what you think the OG said (especially since I stated exactly what he said)...the point of the post was purely to point out that he made an unwarranted threat before any foul play or shirking of responsibility had occurred. That’s not how you inspire trust in your subordinates or earn their respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhog Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 1 hour ago, ClearedHot said: What you identify as poor leadership is actually someone asking you as an IP to be a ing adult, sorry that is so difficult for you. Enjoy the airlines, I am sure you "me only" attitude will serve you quite well in the interview process. For the record I retired to get away from caustic leadership and a broken system, I think most of the people that served with me (some on here), know I was not into the you should be ridiculed because I was ridiculed routine, but getting offended because someone asks you to make sure you training paperwork is squared away...dear god, get the sand out of your ######. Don’t tell me what it “actually” was because you have no more information than the rest of us. I trust the guy telling the story know more about whether the dude was being a prick than you trying to put words in another O-6s mouth while simultaneously bitching about caustic leadership. You need to figure out what your position is and once you do, do not make mistake of assuming I give a shit. I’m also not interested in what a new airline guy thinks will serve an 11 year airline guy well. The Air Force is different than when you punched. The desks practically fly themselves these days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomer6 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurelySerious Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 16 minutes ago, torqued said: babble When people call you a douche, is it “douche,” or is it “dooooouuuuuuche”? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearedHot Posted March 25, 2018 Author Share Posted March 25, 2018 1 hour ago, torqued said: You need to figure out what your position is and once you do, do not make mistake of assuming I give a shit. Did I hurt your feelings? Poor thumb-sucking SNAP, should we call mommy? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazedandCynical Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Just fill out the grade sheet? Not for the O-6.... I’m as cynical as the next dude...but I wouldn’t leave the AF bc the OG threatened to remove my certification as an IP if I didn’t do my job. Obviously, not inspiring words from the OG to a new IP...but just fill out the grade sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickhistory Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 3 hours ago, torqued said: The Air Force is different than when you punched. The desks practically fly themselves these days. Say, didn't CH retire, like, in 2017? I know technology speeds the pace of change up, but, really?! Are you referring to the empty desks because there's no one to man them? As a true old retiree, I enjoy listening to youngsters and their wisdom. Like Whitney said... Parkland students today... Cultural Revolutionaries a few decades ago (The real ones, not our Berkeley ersatz ones...) Good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BashiChuni Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 3 hours ago, torqued said: You need to figure out what your position is and once you do, do not make mistake of assuming I give a shit. I’m also not interested in what a new airline guy thinks will serve an 11 year airline guy well. The Air Force is different than when you punched. The desks practically fly themselves these days. calm down tough guy. you're way over torqued. CH's one of the good ones suggest you redirect fire 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungnDumb Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 On a different note, someone mentioned the boys at Nellis wrote a letter to the AF about the current status of training/readiness. Any validity to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Like I said I didn’t agree with everything this OG did and he could definitely be caustic at times, but he set his expectations clearly ahead of time as well as the consequences too. He also rarely punished en mass it was targeted specifically at people who fucked up. He also had very high expectations of his IP corps. From one IP to another, if you habitually fucked up grade sheets, TMS reports, currency paperwork I would agree you probably shouldn’t be an IP. You are the example and if you can’t do it then it’s time to find better examples. Also if you understood that the OG needed the paperwork so he could use the Go/No-go process to gather data on things like Ops tempo effects on training, crew compositions, required waivers etc, you understand why it was important to him. He fought many battles against 18AF/AMC that the crew force never knew about. I was in your shoes too until my commander sat some of the IPs down and peeled back the curtain. This guy isn’t a saint but he enabled a lot of good at McChord, as for his actions at Dyess I got nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icohftb Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Is there a paperwork issue in said ops group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck17 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Fuzz said: Like I said I didn’t agree with everything this OG did and he could definitely be caustic at times, but he set his expectations clearly ahead of time as well as the consequences too. He also rarely punished en mass it was targeted specifically at people who fucked up. He also had very high expectations of his IP corps. From one IP to another, if you habitually fucked up grade sheets, TMS reports, currency paperwork I would agree you probably shouldn’t be an IP. You are the example and if you can’t do it then it’s time to find better examples. Also if you understood that the OG needed the paperwork so he could use the Go/No-go process to gather data on things like Ops tempo effects on training, crew compositions, required waivers etc, you understand why it was important to him. He fought many battles against 18AF/AMC that the crew force never knew about. I was in your shoes too until my commander sat some of the IPs down and peeled back the curtain. This guy isn’t a saint but he enabled a lot of good at McChord, as for his actions at Dyess I got nothing. Whoa whoa whoa, you mean there’s another side to this story!? (#sarcasm) Your measured response is getting in the way of our righteous indignation...! Chuck 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runr6730 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 As a guy who lived through Fairchild’s ASEV failure in 2010, I can vouch that paperwork matters. That being said, would I revoke someone’s IP qual for screwing it up (even repeatedly)? Hell no, but said IP would get really tired of briefing the squadron at training days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BashiChuni Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 i bet its REALLY fun to be deployed with you. like really fun. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Mr. T 5 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe1234 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 One you dudes is already retired and the other is about to retire. As long as they direct deposit your pension on time every month, who fucking cares what happens to the Air Force? Just......let go already. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhog Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 17 minutes ago, joe1234 said: One you dudes is already retired and the other is about to retire. As long as they direct deposit your pension on time every month, who ing cares what happens to the Air Force? Just......let go already. I'm in this for the long haul. I intend to stick around here and give my advice as to how the Air Force and its pilots should operate well into my retirement years. I'm pretty sure my best years are behind me and if I don't consistently remind you what a badass I used to be, you can't expect me to get any sort of validation in my sunset years as a gear puller where my ego isn't regularly fed a steady diet of online recognition? Geez, can't someone just admit this is the funniest exchange ever precipitated by an animated snowflake .gif? I mean, I'm working my ass off here to make sure everyone is having a good time. FFS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourFans Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 2 hours ago, torqued said: I don't care to read to what a retired O-6 who hasn't seen a gradesheet or AF cockpit in years thinks about what abuse pilots should be willing to accept from an out of touch OG 50 minutes ago, torqued said: I intend to stick around here and give my advice as to how the Air Force and its pilots should operate will into my retirement years... ...wait...what? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqwatch Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I'm in this for the long haul. I intend to stick around here and give my advice as to how the Air Force and its pilots should operate well into my retirement years. I'm pretty sure my best years are behind me and if I don't consistently remind you what a badass I used to be, you can't expect me to get any sort of validation in my sunset years as a gear puller where my ego isn't regularly fed a steady diet of online recognition? Geez, can't someone just admit this is the funniest exchange ever precipitated by an animated snowflake .gif? I mean, I'm working my ass off here to make sure everyone is having a good time. FFS. You are a weird dude. And I cringed at your attempt at your-mom jokes.Here’s an IP demo: You fvcked your last grade sheet harder than torqued’s mom on prom nightI banged on the GTIMs submit button harder than torqued’s mom backstage at motley crew.Yesterday was hotter than torqued’s mom at a Burt reynold’s film festival Torqued’s mom does squat thrusts on fire hydrants Torqued’s mom swims after troop shipsTorqued’s mom licks moose cvm off pine cones That tac initial was faster than torqued’s mom’s panties coming off at sturgis That last over-g banged up the pylons worse than torqued’s mom at a bill Cosby slumber party. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearedHot Posted March 26, 2018 Author Share Posted March 26, 2018 5 hours ago, joe1234 said: One you dudes is already retired and the other is about to retire. As long as they direct deposit your pension on time every month, who fucking cares what happens to the Air Force? Just......let go already. I mostly have, but there are still a lot of folks serving that I actually care about and there is that whole future of our country thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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