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Commanders are dropping like flies this year

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Do I need to call a taxi next time I have been awake for 18+ hours, is the AF going to pay for this after a long shift or flight? Because you can still get arrested if the cop thinks you are impaired.  Even though its not illegal to be drowsy they can still charge you if they think you are impaired.  

Is it safer to drive after being awake for 18 hours or have a beer and drive?

Point is this is not a black and white problem and we can not treat it as such.  Yes drunk drivers are assholes, i've been hit by one and was lucky that I was not seriously hurt.

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5 hours ago, Homestar said:

You put lives at risk when you drive drunk, buzzed, or high.  Period.

Yet the Air Force is fine with making people fly aircraft to the extent they are so exhausted that drugs are required, and used, to keep going. They don’t really care about lives, it’s all PR. 

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4 hours ago, Hawg15 said:

Yet the Air Force is fine with making people fly aircraft to the extent they are so exhausted that drugs are required, and used, to keep going. They don’t really care about lives, it’s all PR. 

Going to be the asshole on this one.  Nobody forces you to fly exhausted.  You can't equate having a couple drinks at a bar and choosing to drive home "buzzed" with flying in the AF.  

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, pcola said:


And I’ll bet you’ve never looked at your phone while driving either, right? Pretty sure that’s deadlier, especially for innocent children considering the time of day when most DUI fatalities happen compared to distracted driving. So what’s an appropriate punishment for that, and should you turn yourself in to the authorities?


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straw man

/ˌstrô ˈman/

noun

1. an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

*****************************

If you wanted my opinion on distracted driving you should have just asked.  But that's not what we're talking about.

Distracted driving killed just over 3,000 people in 2017

https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/distracted-driving

Drunk driving killed nearly 11,000 people in 2017

https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving

I'll allow for nuance in this discussion and say that not all drunk/buzzed/high driving events are all the same.  And I'd allow that jail time for a first offense is probably a bit harsh.  Since our prison system couldn't handle the sheer number of drunk drivers, I'd have to settle for a year suspension of driving privileges.

But drunk driving is in a different solar system from distracted driving.  

Since you asked, I'm in favor of suspended driving privileges for distracted driving convictions.

 

 

Edited by Homestar
clarity
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5 hours ago, Orbit said:

Do I need to call a taxi next time I have been awake for 18+ hours, is the AF going to pay for this after a long shift or flight? Because you can still get arrested if the cop thinks you are impaired.  Even though its not illegal to be drowsy they can still charge you if they think you are impaired.  

Is it safer to drive after being awake for 18 hours or have a beer and drive?

Point is this is not a black and white problem and we can not treat it as such.  Yes drunk drivers are assholes, i've been hit by one and was lucky that I was not seriously hurt.

I agree that the problem isn't black and white.  A major difference is that driving sleepy isn't per se a crime, despite being dangerous.  Driving drunk is.

If your squadron sends pilots home often after 24 hour duty days, your Sq/CC should probably establish a crash pad/room in the building or agree to pay for an on-base room.

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Driving while tired is just as dangerous as drunk driving.  Might as well lock up those tired fucks for a year too.

A year for drunk driving?  GTFO.

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I'm hoping self driving cars make this whole argument worthless in 30 years. Immagine a world with no DUI, no speeding tickets, no nodding off on 14 hour road trips. You text an app like Uber when you leave a place and a public self driving car with no han input required (other than destination) does the work for you. We're still a ways off but AI and new automotive sensor technology is going to bring us a long way.

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1 hour ago, FLEA said:

I'm hoping self driving cars...

Sounds incredibly boring. But that’s my take on self-driving shit, not having to do with the argument at hand. 

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3 hours ago, Homestar said:

Funny, NHTSA has stats on this as well.

795 deaths in 2017.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drowsy-driving

Get yourself the FO.

So where do you draw the line?  If something is responsible for 3000 deaths then it should be a mandatory 1-year sentence?  What about 2000?  1000?  Since your only piece of evidence is pointing at death statistics, then you have to have some figure in mind.

Your mandatory sentence is stupid because you're putting way too much weight/confidence in a breathalyzer or in a cop's judgement to whether or not you're impaired.  A lot of crimes are black and white.  If you steal something, you're a thief.  If you kill someone, you're a murderer.  Those are clear cut.  But if I have a beer and drive, I am at the mercy at the technology of a breathalyzer or a cop's judgement as to whether or not I will automatically spend a year in prison.  Fuck that.  If you want to put a mandatory sentence on something, make it black and white.

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3 hours ago, FLEA said:

I'm hoping self driving cars make this whole argument worthless in 30 years. Immagine a world with no DUI, no speeding tickets, no nodding off on 14 hour road trips. You text an app like Uber when you leave a place and a public self driving car with no han input required (other than destination) does the work for you. We're still a ways off but AI and new automotive sensor technology is going to bring us a long way.

As long as it still has a steering wheel, you'd still be charged with DUI (currently can get a DUI for sleeping it off in the parking lot if you have your keys in your pocket since you're in "control").

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58 minutes ago, magnetfreezer said:

As long as it still has a steering wheel, you'd still be charged with DUI (currently can get a DUI for sleeping it off in the parking lot if you have your keys in your pocket since you're in "control").

30 years is a long time for legislation to catch up.  We're only a few years into even thinking about driverless cars and look how far it's come.  There will be changes.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BADFNZ said:

So where do you draw the line?  If something is responsible for 3000 deaths then it should be a mandatory 1-year sentence?  What about 2000?  1000?  Since your only piece of evidence is pointing at death statistics, then you have to have some figure in mind.

Your mandatory sentence is stupid because you're putting way too much weight/confidence in a breathalyzer or in a cop's judgement to whether or not you're impaired.  A lot of crimes are black and white.  If you steal something, you're a thief.  If you kill someone, you're a murderer.  Those are clear cut.  But if I have a beer and drive, I am at the mercy at the technology of a breathalyzer or a cop's judgement as to whether or not I will automatically spend a year in prison.  that.  If you want to put a mandatory sentence on something, make it black and white.

If you kill someone you’re a murderer? I don’t think you mean that. Even paying taxes isn’t as black and white as the example you want... I doubt it exists. Totally with you re: mandatory sentences for DUI being a bad idea, but also think mandatory sentences in general are a bad idea for exactly the reasons you talk about for DUI.

We’re all about mandatory sentences for the future crimes hypothetical people will commit in ways that match our worst fears, but then real people in the real world get in the way. If the punishment depends on the words that name the act and not the act itself, there will be problems.

Edited by jice

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A year in jail? Really. For how much BAC? 0.03? Career over, marriage over, kids disgraced for something I’d bet you’ve probably done yourself once or twice at a much higher BAC and gotten away with...
No. Some of us have self control.

Avoiding the one-mistake Air Force does not mean all mistakes are forgivable.

I was court martialed, found not guilty, punished after the fact, and kicked out for it (thank god!). I'm the last person in the world to be against redemption stories. But if you haven't figured out by 30 that you can't drink and drive, let alone as a leader who has surely given God knows how many briefings and punishments on the subject, you don't get to hit the reset button.

I'm not saying to kick the guy out, but leadership should be off the table IF he did it.
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Sounds incredibly boring. But that’s my take on self-driving shit, not having to do with the argument at hand. 
Yeah, nothing more thrilling than the drive to work. I wake up every morning refreshed and excited to hit the road. Hell, sometimes I leave my wallet at work so I have an excuse to do an extra lap after dinner.
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Sounds like the solution is move to Key West and get a bicycle. Can’t get a DUI riding back from Duval St. drunk.

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straw man
/ˌstrô ˈman/
noun
1. an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
*****************************
If you wanted my opinion on distracted driving you should have just asked.  But that's not what we're talking about.
Distracted driving killed just over 3,000 people in 2017
https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/distracted-driving
Drunk driving killed nearly 11,000 people in 2017
https://www.nhtsa.gov/risky-driving/drunk-driving
I'll allow for nuance in this discussion and say that not all drunk/buzzed/high driving events are all the same.  And I'd allow that jail time for a first offense is probably a bit harsh.  Since our prison system couldn't handle the sheer number of drunk drivers, I'd have to settle for a year suspension of driving privileges.
But drunk driving is in a different solar system from distracted driving.  
Since you asked, I'm in favor of suspended driving privileges for distracted driving convictions.
 
 

It’s widely accepted that the stats you’ve provided are misleading for a variety of reasons. Here’s a decent article on the topic.

https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2017/10/18/467836.htm

TLDR: while drunk driving stats are easily and closely monitored, distracted driving is much more difficult to pinpoint in accident reporting statistics. Actual distracted driving incidents are almost certainly much higher than your sources represent. But you’re probably right that it’s a different solar system, just not in the way you thought.


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Sweet argument from authority! “It’s widely accepted, so you should accept it to.” The ole ask your kids if everyone jumped off a bridge would you in reverse and for adults.....come on pcola....you’re better than that.

 

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8 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:
11 hours ago, SurelySerious said:
Sounds incredibly boring. But that’s my take on self-driving shit, not having to do with the argument at hand. 

Yeah, nothing more thrilling than the drive to work. I wake up every morning refreshed and excited to hit the road. Hell, sometimes I leave my wallet at work so I have an excuse to do an extra lap after dinner.

That’s like your opinion, man. Much like I enjoy flying, I enjoy driving. 

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Guardian, the whole point of the article is to make an argument that the stats aren’t telling the whole story. I’m not posting simply to “win” an argument, but to shed light on a very important emerging trend which isn’t getting the attention it deserves. If you read the article, they make a pretty compelling case as to why, in this instance, the statistics are incomplete. So yes, in some instances argument can be made based upon what’s likely true but isn’t necessarily statistically supported (yet.) The point of the argument is to drive better tracking.

Sorry for the thread derail. Back to CC firings.

 

 

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ETA: And the Insurance Journal is a credible source in certain risk assessment circles.

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MOODY AIR FORCE BASE, Ga. --
Col. Daniel P. Walls, 23d Wing commander, relieved Lt. Col. Scott Rein from command of the 41st Rescue Squadron, Sept. 23, 2019, at Moody Air Force Base, Ga. After careful consideration, the decision to relieve the commander was made based on a loss of confidence in his ability to lead and command. Lt. Col. Chad Kohout is currently serving as interim commander of the unit.

About time

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MOODY AIR FORCE BASE, Ga. --
Col. Daniel P. Walls, 23d Wing commander, relieved Lt. Col. Scott Rein from command of the 41st Rescue Squadron, Sept. 23, 2019, at Moody Air Force Base, Ga. After careful consideration, the decision to relieve the commander was made based on a loss of confidence in his ability to lead and command. Lt. Col. Chad Kohout is currently serving as interim commander of the unit.

About time


Sounds like you have some stories




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