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Commanders are dropping like flies this year

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It’s taking everything I have to not make a joke about a woman yelling at people for not being “correct enough” for her. But I’ve evolved.

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36 minutes ago, Hawg15 said:

You must not be a pilot or have experience with leading an organization if yelling at someone is the defining point of a toxic environment. It’s extremely common in every other branch of service. Some people need the tough love of being yelled at every now and then. Obviously not constantly, but it has a time and a place. And the fact that this whole thing involved civilians and not military members is telling. I doubt there would be any IG investigations going on if the Air Force didn’t try and replace every job with a contractor that can’t be fired, being paid 3x more than a service member, who has no clue or experience with military culture. I would bet money she had to deal with a lot of incompetent civilians who know she can’t do anything about it. 

You must not be a hawg driver, because I’ve never seen a hawg driver act like the ass you are condoning.

Selectively raising your voice to get your point across on certain occasions can be effective, but that is different than habitual “yelling,” which if you’ve spent any time around other Services you’d know is not extremely common. It’s also just as effective in other Services (I.e. not). It really just makes you look like an ass and frankly it’s a failure to adult.

People don’t like talking to asses. That’s why they call it toxic. It’s not good for the mission if people don’t want to communicate with their leaders because they are asses. If you were a pilot you’d know that being an ass doesn’t work well in a plane, in combat, or anywhere else for that matter.

Training can tolerate some selective yelling because inducing a stress response can be beneficial when you want to help a person learn. Even in combat, a well-placed intentional yell may bring someone back to where they need to be. However, people can usually tell the difference between someone yelling to help them or the situation versus someone yelling because they’re a power-tripping overcompensating toxic ass.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/10/2019 at 9:45 PM, waveshaper said:

Ellen M. Lord = Senate confirmed position. I'm not sure if the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition and Sustainment is one of them SES positions? The weasel(s) that ratted out this Distinguished General probably are some of them SESes (Turds/Idiots) that are worthy of being yelled at and kicked to the curb for these minor league - BS  accusations.

https://dod.defense.gov/About/Biographies/Biography-View/Article/1281505/ellen-m-lord/

So weird that she was CEO of Textron prior to being appointed.  I’m sure there is no conflict of interest there.

Edited by Bergman

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It’s taking everything I have to not make a joke about a woman yelling at people for not being “correct enough” for her. But I’ve evolved.


Red Pill?


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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Klepto said:

You must not be a hawg driver, because I’ve never seen a hawg driver act like the ass you are condoning.

Selectively raising your voice to get your point across on certain occasions can be effective, but that is different than habitual “yelling,” which if you’ve spent any time around other Services you’d know is not extremely common. It’s also just as effective in other Services (I.e. not). It really just makes you look like an ass and frankly it’s a failure to adult.

People don’t like talking to asses. That’s why they call it toxic. It’s not good for the mission if people don’t want to communicate with their leaders because they are asses. If you were a pilot you’d know that being an ass doesn’t work well in a plane, in combat, or anywhere else for that matter.

Training can tolerate some selective yelling because inducing a stress response can be beneficial when you want to help a person learn. Even in combat, a well-placed intentional yell may bring someone back to where they need to be. However, people can usually tell the difference between someone yelling to help them or the situation versus someone yelling because they’re a power-tripping overcompensating toxic ass.

The hawg community demands high standards, and is laid back as long as you attempt to better yourself and achieve those standards. You aren’t always expected to meet them, but you are expected to put in the effort. If you don’t you won’t be having a pleasant experience. Incompetence gets people killed and is treated harshly. Sometimes people need disciplining. That isn’t habitual yelling or power tripping, nor is it toxic. It’s typically not needed. It doesn’t go straight to that point, there’s a progression that starts as a friendly checking up on them, but it can be an effective tool if needed. I have had my fair share of being an idiot and having a not so pleasant experience with the DO, or my flight lead. That’s part of learning. I would rather deal with the tough love than be in a command that threatens careers and throws around paper work like it’s their job, I’ve experienced that as well. I’m sure you’ve never yelled at your children before. 

 

Also, I don’t know her and haven’t interacted with her, but yelling doesn’t inherently make something, the oh so common buzz word, “toxic.”  This shit is killing the Air Force. We’re an organization who’s sole purpose is killing. Cursing, drinking, and yelling, isn’t okay nowadays but sending 18 year olds into a “war” that started before they were born with no goal is. 

Edited by Hawg15
I don’t write good
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Skitzo said:

 


So making someone cry from using emotional intelligence is different from yelling how?

If you can break someone using emotional intelligence or yelling the net result is the same.

You are using a tactic to elicit a change of behavior. No one method is better than the other.


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Thanks Dr. Phill. But you are 100% wrong. I'm sorry, but telling a kid his momma will be scraping his brains off a California highway from continuously speeding offbase on his motorcycle is the damn truth. Shirt wanted to take his driving privileges on base away after going through a stop sign on base. I told our Shirt  no and our sister squadron Shirt backed me up. If an A1C is crying because he envisioned me having to tell his momma he died for being stupid, I'm okay with that scenario. I told him I will call his mother and make him explain to her why he can't stop speeding.  If the enlisted come into your office to say great job Capt because it was effective. I'm rolling with the E’s on this one. Not some "Capt save a A1C on BODN.”

Some of you couldn't lead your way out of a wet paper bag, especially dealing with the enlisted. A lot of you suck based on some of your moronic ass responses. #Facts #Paging CMSgt Wright

Edited by Shazaam
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What the fvck did I just read? The very concept that someone with your command of the English language is trusted to command an aircraft is astonishing.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Hawg15 said:

Cursing, drinking, and yelling, isn’t okay nowadays but sending 18 year olds into a “war” that started before they were born with no goal is. 

How old are you? You do realize our Airmen aren't pilots and most of their jobs consist of staying inside the wire right? Unless said 18 year is in a highly specialized AFSC or is aircrew, they stay inside the wire and still receive holidays off as we launch combat sorties.

Let me stop by Finance on Thanksgiving at Bagram. Oh wait, it's closed in combat? Thanks AF, I'll just login to MyPay from the WiFi signal in my B-hut. 

10 minutes ago, ihtfp06 said:

What the fvck did I just read? The very concept that someone with your command of the English language is trusted to command an aircraft is astonishing.

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Aren't you the same guy who walked into the squadron sobbing because the Xfinity cable guy was making unannounced visits to your crib? I was told there was definitely some bedroom disruption of service going on, but it wasn't remotely cable related. 

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Aren't you the same guy who walked into the squadron sobbing because the Xfinity cable guy was making unannounced visits to your crib? I was told there was definitely some bedroom disruption of service going on, but it wasn't remotely cable related. 

I wasn’t sobbing. Best six months of my life! The U-verse guy didn’t live up to expectations, however.


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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Tonka said:

It wasn't just a periodic thing when someone slipped up, it was all the freaking time.

Are you sure it wasn’t a “periodic” thing...... oh, wait..... I guess you meant occasional.  I was thinking something else 🙄

Edited by JeremiahWeed
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28 minutes ago, Shazaam said:

How old are you? You do realize our Airmen aren't pilots and most of their jobs consist of staying inside the wire right? Unless said 18 year is in a highly specialized AFSC or is aircrew, they stay inside the wire and still receive holidays off as we launch combat sorties.

Let me stop by Finance on Thanksgiving at Bagram. Oh wait, it's closed in combat? Thanks AF, I'll just login to MyPay from the WiFi signal in my B-hut. 

eb6.jpg?1307463786

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25 minutes ago, LookieRookie said:

Keep it going, the descent into madness is beginning!

Must be. He repeatedly shows up on my "All Activity" feed for negative vote bombing users' old posts.

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6 hours ago, Shazaam said:

Some of you couldn't lead your way out of a wet paper bag, especially dealing with the enlisted. A lot of you suck based on some of your moronic ass responses. #Facts #Paging CMSgt Wright

Cheers, my friends;

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On 6/10/2019 at 7:54 PM, BFM this said:

 

And that, boys and girls, should tell you everything you need to know about where you’re at in the food chain if your office includes GS employees.

Respectfully, no.

Low SA on her part to not recognize her current operating environment and honoring the potential threats.  Working with civilians whether GS or not, IS different than a pure uniform environment.  Plus, for DoD, many of those GS' were former military and A) realize they aren't powerless if someone gets out of control and B) are wily enough to know how to do strike back, whether it's running to mommy IG/Congresscritter, etc., or engaging the infamous 8-point slow roll until said 'leader' is gone.

So perhaps I negated my own argument.

But there is a better way to lead/manage civilians than the brute force method.  No sympathy for this fired officer.

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8 hours ago, Shazaam said:

Some of you couldn't lead your way out of a wet paper bag, especially dealing with the enlisted. A lot of you suck based on some of your moronic ass responses. #Facts #Paging CMSgt Wright

1. Mentor them with the experiences and skills you have acquired through life and career. 

2. Recognize their goals and help them visualize how they can achieve said goals. 

3. Don’t sleep with them. 

Seems pretty standard with leading all individuals, yet keep hanging on to that non rated mantra that dealing with enlisted is some kind of enigma us pilots will never understand. People are people, except for you, you seem like a real douchebag.

 

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Posted (edited)

As a motorcycle rider/roadracer, I'll chime in here. I think Shazaam's example was appropriate.

 

A lot of us can forget what it's like dealing with 17-18 year olds when we are senior CGOs/FGOs. Some of these guys have never left the tiny town they grew up with, and get their first taste of money/speed by spending $3k on a vehicle that can go zero to 60 in under three seconds. Furthermore, recent motorcycle suspension is so good that going 30 feels like 20, 75 feels like 40 and 110 feels like 65. And that's at 30% throttle and 6th gear. I did something extremely stupid on my sportbike years ago and I'll remember it for the rest of my life... I could be dead right now, and that phone call could have been for me.

 

So yeah, if it takes explaining to a 18 yr old what that phone call would be like, and he is naive enough that it makes him cry, so be it. I've also counseled a 25 yr old guard guy caught by leadership, he had been riding all his life, and that conversation was more like "bro, lets go to the track." 

 

But like a UPT debrief, if a byproduct of what I'm saying leads to a few tears (hooking a checkride, etc) then I'm glad my point is getting through. Different strokes for different folks. I am surprised I'm alive after the incident above, and it's one of the reasons I strictly ride at the race track now.

 

Edited by xaarman
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Some of you couldn't lead your way out of a wet paper bag, especially dealing with the enlisted. A lot of you suck based on some of your moronic ass responses. #Facts #Paging CMSgt Wright


Yup your right... I have no idea what I’m doing. Six months commanding 130 in MX gave me zero perspective and I had no hard issues to deal with. I sucked so hard that the Group CC nominated me for the Sijan Award only to make everyone else angry.


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Except for a few solid posts, this reads like if we did PME by correspondence via the YouTube comments section.

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To be fair the Air Force does a poor job of getting rated officers ready to command anything with a large amount of enlisted. If a single seater the only time you deal with them is on the flight line mx, debrief, intel, and medical. Its not until your a O5 do you have to deal with a knucklehead standing tall giving you a reporting statement at your desk. If you have a good First shirt he helps keep stupid stuff off your desk. In the middle part of my career I was in the 89th at Andrews, there were nothing but NCO's and it was easy going. Then I went to KC-135 mx unit with young Airmen , it was a slap in the face having young shitheads right out high school to stop acting like they were in still in high school . 

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7 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

Another fish hooked. 

Troll game is pretty good Shazam

Thanks, Panch. We’ve got a Vegas rejoin this weekend after WIC grad and I CANNOT overstate the 777 maintenance.

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