Info on Unmanned Aircraft System (UAS/UAV/RPA)

[Guest Xhado]

An update from RPA IFS

54 days

28 sorties

~39.5 hours

pattern, area and x-country solos

intro to instruments

2 night sorties

multiple x country and Nav flights

[ziploc158]

Are they giving you guys PPLs out of it? I think FAA minimum is something like 40 hours...

[Guest Xhado]

No PPL out of it, but they're giving us just about everything we need. We're also doing an advanced FAR/FAA class so when we get back to Randolph we can just go out and test/check at the local flight school if we want to.

[BFM this]

Ok, I'll bite: what ever happened to the Comm/Inst requirement from the feds? Did we relent and agree that we were never going to use public airspace?

[SurelySerious]

Ok, I'll bite: what ever happened to the Comm/Inst requirement from the feds? Did we relent and agree that we were never going to use public airspace?

The word is that since the Air Force is its own certifying authority (and they want 6900 new 18U personnel), the AF has ignored the FAA’s desires and gone with a shorter training path. Technically, all of our pilots (unless you take the equivalency exam after UPT) are flying around without an FAA Com/Inst license. This new quasi-IFS, though, seems like a huge improvement; it will be interesting to see if between the new IFS and the T-6 instrument sim work at Randolph, the new 18U trainees have more refined skill sets than the old beta test which had substantially less real flying. If they find it deficient, however, and remedy it by adding more flying training, they will eventually realize no timesaving because it will take the same amount of time as UPT.

I think the national airspace battle is only slightly influenced by this issue.

[Radio]

The word is that since the Air Force is its own certifying authority (and they want 6900 new 18U personnel), the AF has ignored the FAA’s desires and gone with a shorter training path. Technically, all of our pilots (unless you take the equivalency exam after UPT) are flying around without an FAA Com/Inst license. This new quasi-IFS, though, seems like a huge improvement; it will be interesting to see if between the new IFS and the T-6 instrument sim work at Randolph, the new 18U trainees have more refined skill sets than the old beta test which had substantially less real flying. If they find it deficient, however, and remedy it by adding more flying training, they will eventually realize no timesaving because it will take the same amount of time as UPT.

I think the national airspace battle is only slightly influenced by this issue.

More experience is great and future 18Xs will probably come to the fight better prepared to learn the RPA business, compared to how prepared the original beta classes were 2 years ago. But as long as the URT pipeline delivers level headed dudes who can multitask and learn, then the 18X / allow UPT grads to return to cockpits plan will continue. However, the early beta testers might be ruining the argument for more real flying during URT. You now have 30 dudes/dudettes that are becoming Ops Sups, IPs, Flight CCs, etc, proving the job can be done with hard work, 30 days at IFS, a few months of sim time and academics, and buckling down at IQT. Not sure how future 18Xs could show up and operate cirlces around the people who train and supervise them, or what that would prove.

The real test will be once 18Xs are deemed experienced enough to try LRE. But according to the new rules, that won't be until they are fully RPA qual'd for 18 months. So 26-30 months after IFS, will an extra 2-3 weeks at IFS help an 18X L/R an RPA?

[SurelySerious]

Details from Crossflow meeting with AFPC, paraphrase of their words:

AFPC expects UPT direct to go to manned a/c after this tour in UAVs. They have made room in the pilot accessions manning forecasts. T-1s most likely to MAF, T-38s to possibly CAF or MAF. Expect 90% overall to MAF aircraft. Majority of that 10% to the CAF can expect bombers, primarily due to the T-38 spin up/IFF to send anyone to a fighter.

Previous airframe guys wishing to keep AFSC (11F, 11B, 11M), most likely to be released for flying assignments if you were AC/IP/experienced aircrew. Limited TX course availability for everyone else.

In either of the above cases, "released to the needs of the Air Force" was a frequent catch line, so think rated staff or ALO.

Those who want to recat to UAV (11U), your functional manager will change, so your assignments will be considered within the UAV frame vs your old AFSC group. The UAV community is looking to promote from within, so if that's your thing, then this is a way to keep your foot in the door for future leadership positions in what is a growing community. If you don't recat, you run the risk of losing assignment consideration to folks with the most experience and demonstrated ability in your former platform.

So, do you want to take the risk and go back to manned aircraft, or be in the growing community with many career and promotion opportunities...

Life is about choices; you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?"

[TAMInated]

Life is about choices; you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?"

What's the worst that can happen? They banish me to drones for the rest of my commitment AGAIN? I think I'll roll them bones...

[SurelySerious]

What's the worst that can happen? They banish me to drones for the rest of my commitment AGAIN? I think I'll roll them bones...

I agree.

[jtk2010]

Can some of the current RPA pilots provide quality of life info - work hours, deployment schedules, what are the aspects you like/dislike? I am considering going for an RPA spot next year in ROTC but want accurate information to base my decision on. Also, how easy/hard would it be to end up at Creech?

[SurelySerious]

Anyone from Cannon, throw spears if I'm painting the wrong picture for this dude.

Work Hours

-ACC (Creech, Whiteman): 8 hr shifts (3 non-overlapping per day) which at Creech will end up being 10 hrs away from home when you count transit and showing early for the shift brief. 5 days on-3 off, or 6 on-2 off; depends on job manning (P/SO/MIC) and squadron [for instance, some sqs have pilots on 5-3, whereas the intel kids are 6-2 because the intel manning is short]. Change shift about every 4-5 weeks.

-AFSOC (Cannon): 12 hr shifts (3 f'ed up overlapping per day... at least how it was explained to me). Probably have similar transit issues in the Clovis/Portales metropolis.

Deployment Schedule

In ACC most SQs deploy for LRE, and from what I've seen it is on a volunteer basis as often as you please, 4 months at a time. Some guys deploy and end up going right back because they wanted to.

Likelihood of ending up at Creech

Less than it used to be. The AFSOC SQs are people hungry, and Whiteman has just opened. Many of the guys dropping UAVs lately have been tagged for Whiteman, but the SQs still at Creech are all still growing (except the reaper only sq, which is offset by the greater magnitude of growth of everyone else there).

Likes

Supporting ground units, helping eliminate terrorists, defending freedom. Working with return to AD Lt Cols; some of them have some crazy life stories and they're all good dudes. You become pretty close with the people on your shift. Also: Supposed promise that all from UPT will get to go to a real cockpit.

Dislikes

-Having to experience the "liked" activities from a UAV GCS (it is NOT the same as flying, but it's better than "working" in MPF [except that the MPF "work" schedule seems to be every third Tuesday, which is probably nice])

-95% of the time it isn't mentally engaging, and there are no windows

-Having a community with no coherent way of operating. Every squadron has radically different standards, techniques, and operating principles. Our "tactics" are devoid of any useful information. When you put these together, it makes the collective operation inefficient because the people we support expect one thing from working with one unit and get another from the next, or they have inexplicable and unfulfillable expectations.

-The Pred/Reaper and GA GCS combo... quite possibly the most poorly designed weapon system, ever. Given the lack of contract/bidding process, testing and evaluation, and buying a computer company's airplane, we have an abominable control interface paired with an equally abominable aircraft. The "upgrades" we keep getting are stiiiiiiillll total crap. In the last 15 years, and $690 million they haven't had the time or resources to employ anyone who has human factors or aircraft design experience. What the TEG does is also questionable.

-Having the intel community talking to you for 8 hrs straight (i.e. back seat driving, sq dependent)

-Switching shifts is awesome NOT

-You really only have the chance to know 1/3 of your squadron, and due to 24/7 ops in most units, it is pretty much impossible for a whole sq event to take place

-The commute

-Vegas (Great place to vacation, weird place to live, but that is def a personal opinion)

Edited February 13, 2011 by SurelySerious

[Magellan]

-Vegas (Great place to vacation, weird place to live, but that is def a personal opinion)

The general consensus seems to be married people love Vegas, and single dudes struggle with it each in their own way. Go figure.

The biggest problem with the town is there are too many ways to get in debt and/or trouble very very quickly...not to mention the number of single female professionals (not including strippers, hookers, bar tenders, and cocktail waitresses) is probably less than 1% of the population...so good hunting.

[SurelySerious]

Air Force Accepts Delivery of Final MQ-1 Predator

It is unfortunate that Congress saw a need for more than 187, but hopefully the procurement process for the next system includes some meaningful testing and evaluation... maybe even a competitive process.

[nrodgsxr]

Air Force Accepts Delivery of Final MQ-1 Predator

It is unfortunate that Congress saw a need for more than 187, but hopefully the procurement process for the next system includes some meaningful testing and evaluation... maybe even a competitive process.

Meaningful testing? hah you're funny

[SurelySerious]

How Your Schedule Can Hurt (or Help) Your Health

Disruptions to our circadian rhythm, the 24-hour clock that drives sleeping and wakefulness, affect our bodies in more ways than previously believed. New research shows that each of our organs contains cells with their own circadian-clock genes that help bodily processes, such as digestion, operate with maximum efficiency at certain times of day. When a person's circadian clock is thrown off—by jet lag or shift work or eating at the wrong time—it can, over time, contribute to weight gain and depression. It may even increase the likelihood of heart and liver problems.

So UAV operators should be keeping track of their time like guys who use NVGs?

What I want to see is the picture for when you change schedules monthly and are on mids.

[spudsmac]

Just got dates today for training. Looks like I'm going to have a long time (22 July - 4 Jan) on casual at Randolf. What are the chances that the commander will let me flight instruct during the off time? Does anyone know if any regs which will prevent me from doing so?

I'm in the 558th Flight Training Squadron BTW.

[Guest NaRay]

I hate to ask these questions so deep into a thread but here it goes:

How long does the training process take? I know IFS is about 2 months now, but is it actually 14 weeks at Randolph like wikipedia says? How long does it take start to finish to earn RPA wings?

Are locations/assignments given out according to class rank or is it random needs of the AF? What are drops like? Are there pred/reaper/GH offered at each drop?

Do RPA guys deploy/TDY and if so how often/long? I know there are takeoff and recovery pilots, but is that optional?

Thanks in advance.

[Snuggie]

I can answer your last question.

Do RPA guys deploy/TDY and if so how often/long? I know there are takeoff and recovery pilots, but is that optional?

Deployments are almost all LRE (the t/o and landing guys), 120 days each. Most go once per 3 year tour though many volunteer for more. Not sure if any of the RPA only guys have deployed as LRE yet or if the AF is planning to anytime soon.

[Guest Zerohour]

Hello everyone i wanted to share a blog by a current RPA trainee that i found online. He documents everything from getting selected to starting IFS and then to UFT. Hope it helps anyone wanting to find out what daily life is like as a RPA student.

http://rpanoob.blogspot.com/

[Guest rhino]

Had a RIP for MQ-1 initial qual at Creech for June. I heard from the guy trying to set me up with housing that all initial qual training at Creech has been cancelled. Formal training had no idea what I was talking about but the registrar at Creech confirmed that all training has been cancelled. Anyone else run into this issue? Is training at March and Holloman exclusively now?

[Boxhead]

Had a RIP for MQ-1 initial qual at Creech for June. I heard from the guy trying to set me up with housing that all initial qual training at Creech has been cancelled. Formal training had no idea what I was talking about but the registrar at Creech confirmed that all training has been cancelled. Anyone else run into this issue? Is training at March and Holloman exclusively now?

The FTU at Creech is in a state of...let's say flux. I would guess you will be getting a RIP changing you to the 6 RS at Holloman for FTU. Right now, March is just doing ANG folks.

[Guest rhino]

The FTU at Creech is in a state of...let's say flux. I would guess you will be getting a RIP changing you to the 6 RS at Holloman for FTU. Right now, March is just doing ANG folks.

Thanks Boxhead. I guess I'll find out when I get to Clovis.

[scoobs]

When do the first group of UAV pilots find out if there going back to a cockpit?

[Boxhead]

When do the first group of UAV pilots find out if there going back to a cockpit?

My guess will be the next crossflow board. That will have them here just under 3 years, so good enough time to hear what their future holds. Good thing all RPAs are changing their names shortly to "MAWLoAs" (Manned Assets With Lots of Automation) That way all those guys can go to a manned asset and Big Blue never has to lie, cause you know, the truth simply changed.

Thanks Boxhead. I guess I'll find out when I get to Clovis.

Nice! I'll be here till NLT Sept, then I'll see ya in Holloman instead.

[nrodgsxr]

Anyone from Cannon, throw spears if I'm painting the wrong picture for this dude.

-AFSOC (Cannon): 12 hr shifts (3 f'ed up overlapping per day... at least how it was explained to me). Probably have similar transit issues in the Clovis/Portales metropolis.

cannon dudes is this still accurate? thx!

Edited April 26, 2011 by nrodgsxr