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Tactical Void,

I submitted a letter to the company requesting approval to work theee additional jobs on the side. None involve me flying. It was approved. 

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1 hour ago, HuggyU2 said:

Tactical Void,

I submitted a letter to the company requesting approval to work theee additional jobs on the side. None involve me flying. It was approved. 

If it doesn’t involve flying, why would:

a)the company care? and

b)you ask for permission?

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If it doesn’t involve flying, why would:
a)the company care? and
b)you ask for permission?


Delta cares. That’s why they’re being sued for USERRA violations.


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17 minutes ago, Danny Noonin said:

 


Delta cares. That’s why they’re being sued for USERRA violations.


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While the policy is for no concurrent duty, that is going to be changed (per the military liaison/manager).  Implementation is pending the outcome of said USERRA lawsuit, which has more to do with a few pilots covering their asses for gaming the system than anything Delta has done IMHO.  My understanding is that policy was put in place many years ago and was meant to prohibit concurrent flying duty specifically, back in the day when ARC pilots just flew airplanes.

I know several CC types who routinely go to their ANG bases on 30hr layovers to do admin and the company doesn’t go after them (aka enforce the current policy).

Having said that, Delta was definitely putting the squeeze on military members in the 2014-2016 time frame.  The manager and CPO guys doing it have been removed.  My experience with the new guys has been as good as possible.

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Thanks Bergman! That is refreshing as it paralleled witch hunt proportions during that timeframe. We squelched 99% of their stack of names and were fortunate they were easy to substantiate. It was a bit eerie how pointed the questioning was by that specific airline.

That explains a lot Bergman - Appreciate the info on the new world order!

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Hoss,

It is also to prevent “conflict of interest”. 

The approval process was fair and simple, and supported by ALPA. I have no problem with it. 

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Ignorant question. Whats to stop someone from being on 30 day alert orders, sitting their 12 days of alert in the first 3 weeks of the month and then picking up and flying an airline trip the last week that you are off but still technically under orders?


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Posted (edited)

The threat of prosecution/termination.  And for long term orders (30+ or so) I think you give a copy of your orders to the job that pays the bills.

Edited by nunya

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The threat of prosecution/termination.  And for long term orders (30+ or so) I think you give a copy of your orders to the job that pays the bills.

Yeah, I guess I just don’t understand what the big deal is if you had already finished your alert commitment for the month. I guess if you could somehow take leave that last week or try to drop one week of orders you would be good?


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30 minutes ago, Duck said:

I guess if you could somehow take leave that last week or try to drop one week of orders you would be good?


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Correct.  A call to the chief Pilot’s office to amend your mil duty to end early.  At DAL at least, once mil leave is on your schedule, the system locks you out of doing anything with it.

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13 hours ago, Duck said:

Ignorant question. Whats to stop someone from being on 30 day alert orders, sitting their 12 days of alert in the first 3 weeks of the month and then picking up and flying an airline trip the last week that you are off but still technically under orders?

At my airline, you'd just bid a line, drop leave the days you knew you'd be on alert, maybe add a little slop time, and then show up to fly your trips at the end of the month.

They literally do not give a shit that you're double dipping as long as you actually show up to fly what's on your schedule. Meanwhile other dudes are getting threatened with being fired. Fuck that.

The company you work for matters.

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At my airline, you'd just bid a line, drop leave the days you knew you'd be on alert, maybe add a little slop time, and then show up to fly your trips at the end of the month.
They literally do not give a shit that you're double dipping as long as you actually show up to fly what's on your schedule. Meanwhile other dudes are getting threatened with being fired. that.
The company you work for matters.


What company do you work for?


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Ignorant question. Whats to stop someone from being on 30 day alert orders, sitting their 12 days of alert in the first 3 weeks of the month and then picking up and flying an airline trip the last week that you are off but still technically under orders?


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Man. I hope the answer is nothing is wrong. It would be the same as a weekend or leave. And what you choose to do during that time given back to you is yours to make. Someone please say that’s the case.

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Posted (edited)

Maybe your life insurance is in question. Some airlines have stipulations via insurance companies regulatory policies. Life/limb catastrophic issues demand payment, but airlines are good at circumnavigating this arena so be aware. Makes sense that is your time and many pilots fly recreationally as well and do more high exposure activities if you will. Your a loss Manning wise, but the insurance might be a plausible note. One of our folks had an issue/death on the road and it seems there was much contention regarding payment of insurance. Company time vs off company time (flying), but the issue was he was on a trip. I hope to believe this wouldn’t happen in the Big 3 or other biggies. I am not going to say beyond company... Many know though. Just some thoughts...

While your an asset, you can be a liability as well.

Edited by AirGuardianC141747

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Fill out the off base employment form with your commander, that would protect you from the military side.  If the airline goes after you *cough Delta* they would have to go after ALL pilots who have side jobs or they are violating federal discrimination laws as Delta is finding out with a class action lawsuit that Delta is going to lose big time.  For the life insurance thing, if you're worried about it, buy your own from AAFMA.  Mine is dirt cheap for $800K and they don't care a bit who you were working for or what your orders said.  And if you fill out that form with the AF, I don't think you'd have any problem with a line of duty determination.

BLAB: You're fine as long as you cover your bases paperwork-wise.

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On 5/14/2019 at 10:23 AM, Duck said:

Ignorant question. Whats to stop someone from being on 30 day alert orders, sitting their 12 days of alert in the first 3 weeks of the month and then picking up and flying an airline trip the last week that you are off but still technically under orders?

Leave reg mainly.  It can be mitigated, but you still have touch work every 4ish days (depending on how you swap alert) to stay stay legal.  Other than that, as long as you've done the proper paperwork like Smokin mentioned, I haven't seen any good/logical reason why someone couldn't do this.  I've had a few leadership types at DAL quote things like AirGuardian mentioned, as well as a few other minor things which are all totally bogus.  What it boils down to is there were a few management types that just can't stand the thought of dudes being paid by two masters.  Sadly, the worst one (now removed from that position) is a former AF Reserve pilot.  

On the other hand, I don't understand why you'd want to ruin the best gig going (part-timer) by trying to work both gigs full time....WAY too much work!

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Posted (edited)

How early is too early to take mil leave?  Is there such a thing?

I got hired at a major and will start training right when I begin terminal leave.  I also Palace Chased but won't have a chance to in-process with my unit until after airline training.  Would it be frowned upon to finish training, then immediately drop mil leave to head up to my AFRC unit to in-process?  Is there an unwritten limit on how much mil leave I should take in this instance considering I'd still be on IOE and probation?

Edited by BADFNZ

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26 minutes ago, BADFNZ said:

How early is too early to take mil leave?  Is there such a thing?

I got hired at a major and will start training right when I begin terminal leave.  I also Palace Chased but won't have a chance to in-process with my unit until after airline training.  Would it be frowned upon to finish training, then immediately drop mil leave to head up to my AFRC unit to in-process?  Is there an unwritten limit on how much mil leave I should take in this instance considering I'd still be on IOE and probation?

While you CAN..... it’s generally considered polite to wait until you’re off probation. 

Hell, you can drop mil leave in Indoc if you’re feeling froggy. 

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37 minutes ago, BADFNZ said:

Would it be frowned upon to finish training, then immediately drop mil leave to head up to my AFRC unit to in-process?

Are we talking 5 days to in-process or 15 months to in-process and get MR in your new ride?

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3 minutes ago, HossHarris said:

While you CAN..... it’s generally considered polite to wait until you’re off probation. 

Hell, you can drop mil leave in Indoc if you’re feeling froggy. 

Froggy? Probation? LOL. Try the last trip of IOE. Seen it happen twice. And not just any ol'  "31+" MLOA... no no, actual effin' Title 10 3-year EAD (AGR) orders.  

 

...and that's why we can't have nice things. 

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You can take as much mil leave on probation as you like.

Just never ever ever check-in late, miss an altitude, commute, f-up a V1 cut, or make any other mistakes.

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It’s amazing how different airlines look at mil leave. My place of work is extremely supportive and I can drop mil leave no questions asked. However if you started dropping mil leave during the holidays they said it would raise a bunch of flags.


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I'm talking about a week just to in-process and do whatever else I may need to do. 

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, BADFNZ said:

I'm talking about a week just to in-process and do whatever else I may need to do. 

Do what you need to do.  You are talking 5 days so it isn't that big of a deal.  Your unit should understand that you need to get through INDOC and training first ( I am guessing there are quite a few airline pilots in the unit so they understand the process).  Let that be your focus.  Then you can either finish IOE and then drop the days you need or work with your IOE scheduler to coordinate a few days.  No need to wait until off probation but don't try and cheat the system. 

Edited by Sneedro

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Whatever you do, make sure you swear in to the guard the next day after your last day on AD...have a plan to make it happen, including a day of mil leave if required. That’s not something you want to screw up. Also, I’m guessing you will likely find a work week you can in process that’s in between Indoc and training, between training and first IOE ride, etc.

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