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8 hours ago, torqued said:

I'm over 20 and recently did the math for my situation. After 20 mil and over 10 airline years, it's not even close to being worth it. I found I'm basically taking a massive hit every year just to fly around the flagpole and have lunch with the bros. I'd estimate if you have less than 15 years of service, it's not worth it to finish out your 20 from a purely financial standpoint depending on airline/unit/etc. If you're between 15-20....?

If you live in an area where both your mil job and civ job are located, then IMO it can be a pretty good deal to stay in the reserves. In a situation where a guy who got out might stay in a narrowbody to maintain their QoL with relative seniority, a DSG/TR can maintain a similar QoL while bidding up to a higher paying seat.

 

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Health insurance should not be a consideration. If your airline’s health insurance costs $800 per mo, TRS costs ~$300. That’s a savings of only $500 per mo. The airlines I have worked for I’ve had premiums of less than $100, and one reimbursed me for TRS so that was effectively $0.

 

I’d like to retire from my civilian job at age 60, so having free Tricare age 60-65 will be nice as I won’t need to pay $1000 per mo retiree premiums from my company.

 

Tricare for Life will be nice since I won’t need to pay for medigap or medicare advantage.

 

BLIM (Bottom line in the middle): health insurance is not a factor for my continued service—it’s merely nice.

 

The factor for me is the retirement and the RCSBP. If I die in the grey area my wife will immediately get an annuity.

 

RBLAB (Rock bottom line at the bottom): Tricare is pretty darn good, but there are more important motivating factors in my opinion.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

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8 hours ago, joe1234 said:

If you live in an area where both your mil job and civ job are located, then IMO it can be a pretty good deal to stay in the reserves. In a situation where a guy who got out might stay in a narrowbody to maintain their QoL with relative seniority, a DSG/TR can maintain a similar QoL while bidding up to a higher paying seat.

True, but he asked about the value of doing both from a purely financial perspective. I suppose he could just bid a higher paying seat and fly the full schedule and do the G/R job on the days off.  In rare cases, one could sit reserve while logging pay periods at the unit.  Yours is a more reasonable perspective because (in most cases), it doesn't make any sense to separate compensation and quality of life in a hypothetical when you can't separate the two in actuality.

It seems when many people mention "Quality of Life", they actually mean "Quantity of Time Home". I live a short drive from my Guard unit and commute to my airline job. For me, if my time at home is spoiled by the workload, stress, and frustration of a G/R job that pays less than half, I'll choose to commute a full airline schedule and be a better person spending "quality" time with the family and other interests on my days off. I realize there are some nice G/R gigs where the flying is easy and the stress is low, I'm just not in one of them.

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In rare cases, one could sit reserve while logging pay periods at the unit.


I’m relatively sure this is a good way to get in trouble if caught.

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14 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

 


I’m relatively sure this is a good way to get in trouble if caught.

 

Nope - it’s normal and happens quite regularly.  

Siiting long call at your airline while logging a Ground Training Period or even sometimes a Flight Training Period is normal if you’re lucky enough to have both your domicile and unit close enough to each other.  

Edited by Tank
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17 hours ago, Gazmo said:

I am an O-4 nearing the 16.5 yr mark in the old retirement system with 4,500+ points toward a guard retirement and I am on first year pay with one of the Big 3, so for me, it is worth doing another 3.5 to get to 20. However, once I get into the 2nd year pay, I'll be looking for a nonflying job in the ANG or Reserves, maybe even points only.

This is exactly what I have seen in AFRC the last couple of years. Once guys hit 2nd year airline pay, the reserve job becomes a money loser - if you drop an airline trip for mil duty. If you do your mil job around your airline trips, sure you make that extra reserve money, but most guys would rather just have the time off.

Plus, the general ass-pain of the reserve job wears on folks. Little things, like - logging into a computer: Insert CAC, wait 10 to 15 secs for the computer to recognize it. Enter PIN, wait 69 seconds. Here comes the stupid pop up, oh, here is another, and, another. Finally, after 5 minutes, there is the desktop screen, click on Outlook, it opens, updates mailbox, 3 minutes later you can read email, blah, blah, and on and on. Oh yeah! Don’t forget the self aid buddy care, fire extinguisher training, trafficking in human persons, unexploded ordnance, etc, the same exact BS briefings you have sat through over and over and over and....

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If you guys read through the Green New Deal, you'd know that the pilot hiring wave is about to hit a brick wall, with furloughs all but inevitable.  In an unrelated note, Ocasio-Cortez's campaign contributions were released and her largest donor was the Aircrew Crisis Task Force.

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This is exactly what I have seen in AFRC the last couple of years. Once guys hit 2nd year airline pay, the reserve job becomes a money loser - if you drop an airline trip for mil duty. If you do your mil job around your airline trips, sure you make that extra reserve money, but most guys would rather just have the time off.
Plus, the general ass-pain of the reserve job wears on folks. Little things, like - logging into a computer: Insert CAC, wait 10 to 15 secs for the computer to recognize it. Enter PIN, wait 69 seconds. Here comes the stupid pop up, oh, here is another, and, another. Finally, after 5 minutes, there is the desktop screen, click on Outlook, it opens, updates mailbox, 3 minutes later you can read email, blah, blah, and on and on. Oh yeah! Don’t forget the self aid buddy care, fire extinguisher training, trafficking in human persons, unexploded ordnance, etc, the same exact BS briefings you have sat through over and over and over and....
Exactly. It took me two hours just to do two predeployment CBT's on ADLS the other day that should have taken about 30 minutes because of network issues. Our computer networks have become our weakest link in getting $hit done around the squadron. Whatever. It all pays the same. I'm just count'n the days.

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3 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:


I’m relatively sure this is a good way to get in trouble if caught.

Why? It's only a problem if you get the call from scheduling in the air on a local low-level route and you have to break out of the formation and terminate the sortie early to make your 2 hour report. That sorta pisses people off. 😄

Edited by torqued

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3 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

 


I’m relatively sure this is a good way to get in trouble if caught.

 

Delta is the only company I've ever heard of that has the rule that you can't do military duty while on company time. Most other companies don't care as long as it doesn't affect their operation.

Example: You want to do something for points and/or pay. You're on a layover, long call reserve, or short call and you're able to leave your squadron immediately when called. At Delta this is prohibited. Most others OK.

Any Delta guys want to confirm this?

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Yes mother Delta has some heartburn with dudes logging pay cards while on reserve or even on a trip.  They don't seem to like the idea of having two masters in the same day and the few reasons I have been fed are completely illogical and it's utter BS.  WRT Threeholers post, I haven't seen anything that says it's illegal, but I've honestly not taken a deep dive into the rules on it.  That said, I've been here over 4 years and have had zero issues wrt MLOA, of which I've taken a fair amount.  In my experience, they get the dynamic nature of mil duty and occasional stuff here and there isn't even on the their radar.  What really seems to burn them is consistent, strategic use of mloa to enhance your schedule. 

I was chatting with a tanker OG (AOO) today that has lots of part timer airline guys all over place.  His anecdotal evidence pointed at Delta and FedEx as the most strict about MLOA, based on which company he heard from the most. 

 

Break break

With respect to above posts about working mil around the airline.  I found that on the NB, I needed to drop a trip or a few days of reserve a month to keep from feeling like I worked the entire month.  Now that I'm on the WB, my schedules is so cush that I simply work at the Guard on my off days.  2x6-day (or 4x3-day)  trips at DAL, then 4 days at the Guard.  Living in base for both gigs is extremely helpful.  

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If you guys read through the Green New Deal, you'd know that the pilot hiring wave is about to hit a brick wall, with furloughs all but inevitable.  In an unrelated note, Ocasio-Cortez's campaign contributions were released and her largest donor was the Aircrew Crisis Task Force.
She is absolutely insane.
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AOC will realize her green new deal like trump will realize his wall.  Relax they’re just trying to get their base fired up.

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Those are not real blondes. 

Break break---

I think its clear southwest is the pack leader when it comes to MLOA friendly ops. Some of the stuff I've been recently made privy to is straight up burger king. Good on 'em. 

Also, I personally love the insta switch from some airline guys the second  they make a nickle more per credit hour than their mil gig. To quote an old ART buddy of mine : "you know, for the best job in the world, these mother----- sure spend a lot of time hiding here.." . I think peter gave Jesus a better treatment than some of these guys do their squadron pay people the day after that 2nd year longevity pay anniversary lol. I still remember the lost decade, so I'm naturally inclinded not to ballwalk around a job that kept people paid during a trough, but to each their own. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, hindsight2020 said:

Also, I personally love the insta switch from some airline guys the second  they make a nickle more per credit hour than their mil gig. To quote an old ART buddy of mine : "you know, for the best job in the world, these mother----- sure spend a lot of time hiding here.." . I think peter gave Jesus a better treatment than some of these guys do their squadron pay people the day after that 2nd year longevity pay anniversary lol. I still remember the lost decade, so I'm naturally inclinded not to ballwalk around a job that kept people paid during a trough, but to each their own. 

 

 

Your username is really fitting for this post.

 

 

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1 hour ago, hindsight2020 said:

Those are not real blondes. 

Break break---

I think its clear southwest is the pack leader when it comes to MLOA friendly ops. Some of the stuff I've been recently made privy to is straight up burger king. Good on 'em. 

Also, I personally love the insta switch from some airline guys the second  they make a nickle more per credit hour than their mil gig. To quote an old ART buddy of mine : "you know, for the best job in the world, these mother----- sure spend a lot of time hiding here.." . I think peter gave Jesus a better treatment than some of these guys do their squadron pay people the day after that 2nd year longevity pay anniversary lol. I still remember the lost decade, so I'm naturally inclinded not to ballwalk around a job that kept people paid during a trough, but to each their own. 

 

 

Would be less likely to ballwalk if the ARC could get a handle on paying people correctly and in a timely manner without having the member waste multiple days trying to get it unfucked. I know, I know.  Too much to ask.

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Those are not real blondes. 
Break break---
I think its clear southwest is the pack leader when it comes to MLOA friendly ops. Some of the stuff I've been recently made privy to is straight up burger king. Good on 'em. 
Also, I personally love the insta switch from some airline guys the second  they make a nickle more per credit hour than their mil gig. To quote an old ART buddy of mine : "you know, for the best job in the world, these mother----- sure spend a lot of time hiding here.." . I think peter gave Jesus a better treatment than some of these guys do their squadron pay people the day after that 2nd year longevity pay anniversary lol. I still remember the lost decade, so I'm naturally inclinded not to ballwalk around a job that kept people paid during a trough, but to each their own. 
 
 
The mil gig kept people alive during the rough times, but it's a different ARC than it was 15-20 years ago. A lot of the dudes who had their bacon saved when they were furloughed after 9/11 were from the good old days when the Guard and Reserves were a flying club and we only went to places like Guam, Pisa, Cypress, Curacao.... you know, the real "rough" ones. Those were the times you could have fun and get a little stupid without it ending up on FaceBook a day later because one of your brown-nosing unit mates wanted to play buddyf#cker. Those were the days when straw after straw after straw breaking the camel's back didn't exist. Most of those dudes have since retired. Those are the ones, some of them at least, who managed to walk away with an AD retirement, an ART retirement AAAAAAAAAAAND walked right back into decent seniority and a $200,000 per year job. I know at least a half dozen guys like this from the lost decade who did very well for themselves while guys like me waited for a full time job at the unit. Timing is everything. I am in "ghost mode" now. I go to the unit a few times a month, get my shit done to stay off the bad boy lists, but for the most part, I try to spend very little time there. I think it's a case of senioritis, but with first year pay at $90+ an hour these days, fortunately I don't need the extra cash... just a few more good year's worth of points.
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2 hours ago, Gazmo said:
6 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:
Those are not real blondes. 
Break break---
I think its clear southwest is the pack leader when it comes to MLOA friendly ops. Some of the stuff I've been recently made privy to is straight up burger king. Good on 'em. 
Also, I personally love the insta switch from some airline guys the second  they make a nickle more per credit hour than their mil gig. To quote an old ART buddy of mine : "you know, for the best job in the world, these mother----- sure spend a lot of time hiding here.." . I think peter gave Jesus a better treatment than some of these guys do their squadron pay people the day after that 2nd year longevity pay anniversary lol. I still remember the lost decade, so I'm naturally inclinded not to ballwalk around a job that kept people paid during a trough, but to each their own. 
 
 

The mil gig kept people alive during the rough times, but it's a different ARC than it was 15-20 years ago. A lot of the dudes who had their bacon saved when they were furloughed after 9/11 were from the good old days when the Guard and Reserves were a flying club and we only went to places like Guam, Pisa, Cypress, Curacao.... you know, the real "rough" ones. Those were the times you could have fun and get a little stupid without it ending up on FaceBook a day later because one of your brown-nosing unit mates wanted to play buddyf#cker. Those were the days when straw after straw after straw breaking the camel's back didn't exist. Most of those dudes have since retired. Those are the ones, some of them at least, who managed to walk away with an AD retirement, an ART retirement AAAAAAAAAAAND walked right back into decent seniority and a $200,000 per year job. I know at least a half dozen guys like this from the lost decade who did very well for themselves while guys like me waited for a full time job at the unit. Timing is everything. I am in "ghost mode" now. I go to the unit a few times a month, get my shit done to stay off the bad boy lists, but for the most part, I try to spend very little time there. I think it's a case of senioritis, but with first year pay at $90+ an hour these days, fortunately I don't need the extra cash... just a few more good year's worth of points.

Agreed on all counts, and as a junior guy during the lost decade myself, you're preaching to the choir wrt the double retirement furlough gomers getting to have their cake and eat it too. I was just reminding the gallery these things go in cycles is all. 

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HS2020 is not completely wrong wrt the hiding out comment.  How many dudes do you know that got hired, consolidated then bounced to 2-5 years of orders?  Guys that can't be bothered most of the year, but have no issues finding themselves some orders during the holiday season?  Or never providing scheduling solid days of availability, but they sure know that they'll be out on 22Dec so they can drop that Christmas trip?  That said, in my experience, some of the loudest full time airline bashers end up twice as bad once they themselves found an airline gig. 
  

10 minutes ago, hindsight2020 said:

Agreed on all counts, and as a junior guy during the lost decade myself, you're preaching to the choir wrt the double retirement furlough gomers getting to have their cake and eat it too. I was just reminding the gallery these things go in cycles is all. 

I too was junior in the "lost decade."  The only cycle I've see in my 18 years is a steady decline that seems to be continually picking up steam on its way down the hill.  Things ARE worse and I'd venture to guess those types would still complain if they needed to come back on orders.  Having a job where shit just works and you get paid properly/on time has a way of doing that to a person.

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I see no reason why anyone should ever feel guilty for min running their unit. The fact that we burn so many TP's on top of our normal UTA/AT requirement to stay current is plenty.

But if you're chronically NMR then yeah you need to shit or get off the pot.

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3 hours ago, joe1234 said:

I see no reason why anyone should ever feel guilty for min running their unit. The fact that we burn so many TP's on top of our normal UTA/AT requirement to stay current is plenty.

But if you're chronically NMR then yeah you need to shit or get off the pot.

Couldn't agree more.  I think the biggest issue out there is the expectations some squadrons put on their part times.  I would argue that, outside of TDYs, anything over 5 days/month is excessive for a part-time force...especially if one day is a no-fly drill day.  Some squadrons want up to 7-8 days/month which is beyond ridiculous and unsustainable.  What you end up with is group of full timers who think that's OK and consider anything else min runners.  I assume some squadron also got accustomed to this during the "lost decade," when everyone was begging to days/dollars.  We're just finally trying to get back to the way it should be...even part time SQ/CC and OG/CC are making a come back.

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