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The new airline thread


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2 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

If you want to compel behavior in a free society, either convince me or pass a law (which my representatives can debate) and force me.  Rule by fiat neither convinces nor allows debate.  I understand you agree with mask theory, but what happens when this same method of governance enables outcomes you disagree with?  To avoid chaos, see sentence #1.  

So is the removal of shoes, emptying of pockets, and taking my laptop out of the bag when going through airport security a law, or a TSA policy?

While you ponder that, I never said I want government to mandate wearing masks everywhere.  I just think guys like this Costco dude are way out of line when they scream at the local retail workers about the store's policy regarding mask wear.  

Wear one or don't.  I don't care.  I question the efficacy.  But if you're going to bring up rights, businesses also have a right to refuse service if you aren't going to abide by their policies.

 

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46 minutes ago, pawnman said:

So is the removal of shoes, emptying of pockets, and taking my laptop out of the bag when going through airport security a law, or a TSA policy?

While you ponder that, I never said I want government to mandate wearing masks everywhere.  I just think guys like this Costco dude are way out of line when they scream at the local retail workers about the store's policy regarding mask wear.  

Wear one or don't.  I don't care.  I question the efficacy.  But if you're going to bring up rights, businesses also have a right to refuse service if you aren't going to abide by their policies.

 

Obeying the TSA is a federal law.  Not sure I understand your point.  I’m saying emergency decrees that we must follow the latest utterance of supposed scientific experts is degrading legitimacy of our entire system and not the legal way to govern.  Perhaps I’m conflating this discussion of airline policy with the overall mandatory mask debate nationwide, and taking you out of context.  

 I do agree businesses have rights to refuse service and set the terms of service.  Which is why forcing those Christian bakeries to make gay wedding cakes was an injustice. 

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4 hours ago, pawnman said:

So is the removal of shoes, emptying of pockets, and taking my laptop out of the bag when going through airport security a law, or a TSA policy?

While you ponder that, I never said I want government to mandate wearing masks everywhere.  I just think guys like this Costco dude are way out of line when they scream at the local retail workers about the store's policy regarding mask wear.  

Wear one or don't.  I don't care.  I question the efficacy.  But if you're going to bring up rights, businesses also have a right to refuse service if you aren't going to abide by their policies.

 

Indeed.  A business absolutely has the right to say "no mask, not welcome."  Same for shirt, shoes, or bringing in animals ( for the most part).

But for a government entity, without my consent in the form of a passed law where I get a say on it passing or not via my representative and/or executive branch executor, does not.  Or should not without a fight.

Otherwise, they'll take even more power upon themselves if they know they can do it without consequences.

 

And specifically because of the TSA buffoonery, if I have any choice in the matter, i.e., have to for work or over 12 hours of driving, I deliberately choose not to fly.

I despise the feel good, apathetic, cattle-like entity that is TSA and much of our modern conform in the name of security society.  

Goes against the grain of what we were founded upon, have been, and are supposed to be.

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1 hour ago, brickhistory said:

But for a government entity, without my consent in the form of a passed law where I get a say on it passing or not via my representative and/or executive branch executor, does not.

I get what you're saying and understand the sentiment if you're on the more libertarian spectrum. It's easy to denounce executive actions you despise as unfair power grabs just like it's also easy to cheer ones you like as "cutting red tape."

But bottom line, a big percentage of all the rules governing our day-to-day lives are created and maintained by agencies of the executive branch of local, state and the federal government. Many of the things that affect your everyday like fuel mileage standards, food safety, VA lending, FAA regulations, public health orders, etc. are largely rulemaking by the executive branch. This is a part of every modern system of government; it's not some kind of voodoo tyranny.

Those kinds of agency actions and regulations as well as executive orders can be abused and it's fine to be skeptical, but your best COA is to vote for mayor/city council/governor/POTUS wisely and lobby the myriad of executive agencies and the appropriate level rather than to just break the rules because you somehow think it's your right to do so.

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I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in that you were not intending as such, but your post describing the workings of the American administrative state came across as patronizing and condescending; a lecture to the peasant from the 'expert.' (see what I did there?).

 

When those agencies get to, via Congress' laziness and having the bureaucrats make unpopular decisions that the Congresscritters don't have to defend and can make a career railing against "government," insert themselves into every aspect of a citizen's life, well, fcuk that.  I don't want to lobby an unelected agency.  I want them to be there because they are enforcing a law that I voted for/against.  Not one Billy Bob Admin Guy decided I needed in order to make his annual appraisal and bonus better.

 

For once, that ancient BA in Political Science comes in handy.  Of course, there was less history, government policy, or Washington leviathan to learn back then, so perhaps I am behind the times...

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On 5/24/2020 at 10:11 AM, pawnman said:

Here's another piece: there's no constitutional right to not wear a mask.

Government only has the powers that they're given by the people, and everything else they don't have the authority to do.

So where's that part in the Constitution about the Government having the power to tell you what to wear?

 

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1 hour ago, nsplayr said:

But bottom line, a big percentage of all the rules governing our day-to-day lives are created and maintained by agencies of the executive branch of local, state and the federal government. Many of the things that affect your everyday like fuel mileage standards, food safety, VA lending, FAA regulations, public health orders, etc. are largely rulemaking by the executive branch. This is a part of every modern system of government; it's not some kind of voodoo tyranny.

No, actually, it isn't supposed to be part of the Executive Branch's powers....it is Congress relinquishing powers it is supposed to have. "Rule making" is supposed to be performed by the "Legislative Branch"....hence, y'know, the name.

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Thread successfully derailed fellas. Maybe we can move this mask discussion to another thread?

FedEx is draining the pool of successfully hired interviewees. Although exact future timing is unknown, it appears the original pool of roughly 200 will be empty by EOY. FedEx was hiring a little over 400/yr prior to stopping in Nov 2019. New interview timing is currently unknown. My educated guess is sometime in the fall. Also unknown is the approx number a year target for the company post COVID surge. Best of luck to all out there in this newest version of the job hunt.

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5 hours ago, brickhistory said:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in that you were not intending as such, but your post describing the workings of the American administrative state came across as patronizing and condescending...

Not meant to be condescending at all, my bad if it came off that way. But I wrote that because...

4 hours ago, Hacker said:

No, actually, it isn't supposed to be part of the Executive Branch's powers....it is Congress relinquishing powers it is supposed to have. "Rule making" is supposed to be performed by the "Legislative Branch"....hence, y'know, the name.

It seems like some folks don't have a good understanding of how our system of government works. Executive branch rulemaking and executive orders are absolutely 100% in line with our constitutional form of government. Arguments can be made as to whether or not there is too much executive action vs congressional lawmaking and I generally agree that Congress has abdicated far too much power to the executive branch on the federal level.

Fully agree that this should be moved to the COVID thread or elsewhere and I'll disengage on other unrelated topics here; cheers.

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This whole thing has put the brakes on a lot of lives and immediate futures. All of the places I worked militarily full up if not jam packed awaiting opportunities, cargo outfit applications stacked by the 10s of thousands, granted its a shotgun effort but you get my drift. Contracts held in limbo, concessions being pushed and other contracts forward movement have slowed to see what the future holds. CJO’s pulled or pools dissolved, training stopped, retraining stopped for now, so many variables. Hold the line on contracts, give up something or strive ahead regardless of the outcome. All is happening at once, more lessons to be learned this year and the next. Geeesh, definitely the industry of highs and lows.

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Good find nsplayr - Of course AA was sold out, packing them in like Sardines. Gotta get some profit wherever you can. SWA might be still separating pax, but what they are introducing is cargo flights as there’s money to be made there while they wait for numbers to really matter. Dougs probably not getting pay right now and maybe his frequent flyer miles are on SWA. 🤠 Cowboy Up!

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Curious what people's thoughts are on what I should do; advice, etc...

Making some assumptions that the airline industry will have a solid bounce back by the time I'm eligible to get out in 3 years at 13.5 years of service. 

I'm really worried about my PIC time. I've done MQ-9s and staff. I'm on my 3rd MWS now and restarting as a copilot. I have 100 AC hours from my first MWS but I feel like I'm unlikely to finish the tour where I'm at adding more anymore than 100 to that. A lot of the career websites for airlines say that 500 PIC hours in a multi engine turbine is preferred but I'm not seeing myself coming close. Especially since getting PIC time as an AC is difficult since the minute you throw an instructor on board for training you lose the a code. Supposing a hiring environment in 3 years similar to the one last year what would you do? Apply anyway? Or should I start looking into other things? Staying in the AF is not an option for me. Nor is working for the federal government in any capacity.

I value free time more than money but need to make at least as much as I'm making in the AF to sustain QOL. Just curious what other oppurtunity people might see in this situation from their angle.

 

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12 minutes ago, FLEA said:

Curious what people's thoughts are on what I should do; advice, etc...

Making some assumptions that the airline industry will have a solid bounce back by the time I'm eligible to get out in 3 years at 13.5 years of service. 

I'm really worried about my PIC time. I've done MQ-9s and staff. I'm on my 3rd MWS now and restarting as a copilot. I have 100 AC hours from my first MWS but I feel like I'm unlikely to finish the tour where I'm at adding more anymore than 100 to that. A lot of the career websites for airlines say that 500 PIC hours in a multi engine turbine is preferred but I'm not seeing myself coming close. Especially since getting PIC time as an AC is difficult since the minute you throw an instructor on board for training you lose the a code. Supposing a hiring environment in 3 years similar to the one last year what would you do? Apply anyway? Or should I start looking into other things? Staying in the AF is not an option for me. Nor is working for the federal government in any capacity.

I value free time more than money but need to make at least as much as I'm making in the AF to sustain QOL. Just curious what other oppurtunity people might see in this situation from their angle.

 

In 3y the regionals will be back to picking up .mil with R-ATP mins.  If you can sprint to an EP qual, you could potentially go straight to a major.

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Curious what people's thoughts are on what I should do; advice, etc...
Making some assumptions that the airline industry will have a solid bounce back by the time I'm eligible to get out in 3 years at 13.5 years of service. 
I'm really worried about my PIC time. I've done MQ-9s and staff. I'm on my 3rd MWS now and restarting as a copilot. I have 100 AC hours from my first MWS but I feel like I'm unlikely to finish the tour where I'm at adding more anymore than 100 to that. A lot of the career websites for airlines say that 500 PIC hours in a multi engine turbine is preferred but I'm not seeing myself coming close. Especially since getting PIC time as an AC is difficult since the minute you throw an instructor on board for training you lose the a code. Supposing a hiring environment in 3 years similar to the one last year what would you do? Apply anyway? Or should I start looking into other things? Staying in the AF is not an option for me. Nor is working for the federal government in any capacity.
I value free time more than money but need to make at least as much as I'm making in the AF to sustain QOL. Just curious what other oppurtunity people might see in this situation from their angle.
 

Regionals or a white jet at pilot training for another tour. Both come with 2-3 years to gain that valuable PIC time or 2-3 year commitment to AF. I would choose the one with higher quality of life. Or guard/reserves.
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Good advice on how to get the credentials to be looked at. Between now and then find a Guard/Reserve unit and start building ties as you transition into the commercial world. Why = you will have a backup income if/when the industry goes South yet again as it has been cyclic. Even folks who had 3-5 years of seniority with a major have been worried if the numbers below them will keep them safe from furlough. Whether or not that becomes fact, the warm fuzzy of alternate income does help. 
 

*If you can stomach the military side when in the Guard/Reserve (different animal, but still military) you may want to consider building active duty points on orders for them/you. Surpassing the 15 yr point of accrued AD points and having already landed your preferred airline (Line Number), most of the airline folks who have ran back to full time gigs (AGR, etc.) during this virus will be vacating such opportunities and you have a good shot at finishing out with an immediate full retirement. 13.5 years is a tough decision to throw away while in good standing. That monthly income in the hand and benefits is hard to beat, but full freedom maybe your best choice and is totally up to you.

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4 hours ago, AirGuardianC141747 said:

Good advice on how to get the credentials to be looked at. Between now and then find a Guard/Reserve unit and start building ties as you transition into the commercial world. Why = you will have a backup income if/when the industry goes South yet again as it has been cyclic. Even folks who had 3-5 years of seniority with a major have been worried if the numbers below them will keep them safe from furlough. Whether or not that becomes fact, the warm fuzzy of alternate income does help. 
 

*If you can stomach the military side when in the Guard/Reserve (different animal, but still military) you may want to consider building active duty points on orders for them/you. Surpassing the 15 yr point of accrued AD points and having already landed your preferred airline (Line Number), most of the airline folks who have ran back to full time gigs (AGR, etc.) during this virus will be vacating such opportunities and you have a good shot at finishing out with an immediate full retirement. 13.5 years is a tough decision to throw away while in good standing. That monthly income in the hand and benefits is hard to beat, but full freedom maybe your best choice and is totally up to you.

Extraordinarily tough. If I stay longer I will promote and burn quite a few guard/reserve possibilities. If I get out guard/reserve is easier but I have little civilian oppurtunity to float me until the majors. Regionals will be tough with kids simply because the pay cut. I don't have the financial stability to float that for more than 6 months to a year.

I think I'm definitely set on getting out because the reality is AD lifestyle is slowly eroding my family to a place that I don't like where it's going. But I'm starting to think Airlines aren't the best option. I just wish I had some sort of credentials that actually meant something anywhere else. Unfortunately, Amazon and Google aren't really impressed by my ACSC in correspondence certificate.

Thanks to those that have responded. 

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6 hours ago, FLEA said:

I just wish I had some sort of credentials that actually meant something anywhere else.

Get LinkedIn premium for a year (free for veterans, probably current mil, too) and do LinkedIn Learning.  Earn your PMP, Green Belt, A+ and several other credentials for the cost of the test. Look at jobs and see what skills they want and find a certification that proves you have those skills.  You’re probably more capable than most civilian applicants but good luck proving it with your resume.  
 
AF has an e-learning app on the portal with many of the same topics but LI Premium has better delivery. 

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Extraordinarily tough. If I stay longer I will promote and burn quite a few guard/reserve possibilities. If I get out guard/reserve is easier but I have little civilian oppurtunity to float me until the majors. Regionals will be tough with kids simply because the pay cut. I don't have the financial stability to float that for more than 6 months to a year.
I think I'm definitely set on getting out because the reality is AD lifestyle is slowly eroding my family to a place that I don't like where it's going. But I'm starting to think Airlines aren't the best option. I just wish I had some sort of credentials that actually meant something anywhere else. Unfortunately, Amazon and Google aren't really impressed by my ACSC in correspondence certificate.
Thanks to those that have responded. 

GI Bill? Go back to college?
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As stupid as pme can be, it's still formal leadership training, and is something that many people on the outside don't get the opportunity to do (leadership/team building training)

There's a lot of soft skills, training, education, and experiences we gain both as pilots and as officers that are marketable, but you've got to sell it.

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Sounds like a euphemism for "soft skills" sophistry. Not that's anything wrong with "fake it til you make it" middle manager cannon fodder; somebody gotta keep the cheap blazer stores afloat. 😄

As to PME, agree to disagree. I'd never put that shit on my CV. Not to say there's not a lot of waste and grift in Big Ed at the collegiate level. After all, part of the origin story of my username is in fact my running away from academia. But in general, the level of academic rigor is absolutely embarrassing for PME; again I say that with the bias of having completed graduate STEM education before I ever set foot in the military. Going through ACSC right now, this shit is irredeemable. Reminds me of the RAND and McKinsey and Co frauds I had to deal with during grad school on the non-STEM side. All hat no cattle cohort of pseudo-intellectualism.

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