The new airline thread

[SocialD]

8 hours ago, TreeA10 said:

Reading Jerimiah Weeds description of a trip reminded me of a comment made during contract negotiations by a former (before my time)  American Airline's CEO, Robert Crandall, "There's no money in cargo."

LOL right!  Not sure why we had 45,000 lbs of cargo on my flight today. 🤔

8 hours ago, Lumbergh said:

SocialD,

I’m just starting at DAL. I know it’ll probably be a few years until I can hold your category, but would you mind sharing your base and equipment? Your schedule sounds fantastic! Thanks. 

PM sent.

 

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

I need some advice...
If palace chase approved my sep date is mid-Jan ‘20. I’ve been offered a flying position with the reserves at my current location. This requires 8-10 months at the FTU, also here. My FTU start date is in Apr ‘20. I’ve got some things to tidy up over the next year but should have all major boxes checked for the airlines. When should I set my availability date for the airlines? Jan ‘20? Or after IQT and subsequent seasoning?

Thanks for the help.

Edit: Once an availability date is set can it easily be changed? Basically, if I try for the airlines for the few months leading up to the FTU and do not get hired can I adjust then?

Edited February 27, 2019 by AlphaMikeFoxtrot

[ColoradoAviator]

8 hours ago, AlphaMikeFoxtrot said:

I need some advice...If palace chase approved my sep date is mid-Jan ‘20. I’ve been offered a flying position with the reserves at my current location. This requires 8-10 months at the FTU, also here. My FTU start date is in Apr ‘20.

AMF, this is question for your new (Reserve) unit.  Are you being hired as a TR?  If so, they expect you to line up full-time civilian employment.  Does your reserve unit have any flexibility on FTU dates?  Airlines don't take kindly to those that move their availability dates around after getting hired, especially by several months.  You need to be available to start class on/shortly after the availability date on your app.   

The window between your gaining date of Jan '20 and your FTU date of Apr '20 is barely large enough to allow enough time for airline training (indoc, systems, sims, IOE, etc.) before dropping a large chunk of mil leave.  And that scenario only works if all the dates line up perfectly.  Hopefully your new unit will provide you with some flexibility on FTU dates to allow you to pursue airline employment.

 

[HossHarris]

9 hours ago, AlphaMikeFoxtrot said:

I need some advice...
If palace chase approved my sep date is mid-Jan ‘20. I’ve been offered a flying position with the reserves at my current location. This requires 8-10 months at the FTU, also here. My FTU start date is in Apr ‘20. I’ve got some things to tidy up over the next year but should have all major boxes checked for the airlines. When should I set my availability date for the airlines? Jan ‘20? Or after IQT and subsequent seasoning?

Thanks for the help.

Edit: Once an availability date is set can it easily be changed? Basically, if I try for the airlines for the few months leading up to the FTU and do not get hired can I adjust then?

If you have to choose between the two because of start date conflicts...get your foot in the door with the airlines. The af is hurting for pilots and there will likely be plenty of opportunities to get back into the ftu at a later date. 

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

17 hours ago, ColoradoAviator said:

AMF, this is question for your new (Reserve) unit.  Are you being hired as a TR?  If so, they expect you to line up full-time civilian employment.  Does your reserve unit have any flexibility on FTU dates?  Airlines don't take kindly to those that move their availability dates around after getting hired, especially by several months.  You need to be available to start class on/shortly after the availability date on your app.   

The window between your gaining date of Jan '20 and your FTU date of Apr '20 is barely large enough to allow enough time for airline training (indoc, systems, sims, IOE, etc.) before dropping a large chunk of mil leave.  And that scenario only works if all the dates line up perfectly.  Hopefully your new unit will provide you with some flexibility on FTU dates to allow you to pursue airline employment.

 

Appreciate the words. I should've been a little more clear. The unit CC is urging me to apply sooner than later to the airlines and will shift FTU around accordingly. I think the most important question that I have is if I do not get an interview/offer between Jan '20 less terminal and Apr '20 is it frowned upon or even possible to shift my date of availability? I'd likely move it to the end of my seasoning then. I don't think it would be an issue but there's so many nuances to this process you never know.

Thanks again.

[ThreeHoler]

Be upfront and honest. Set your date to the best of your knowledge based on your situation / expectation for the future timeline. If it changes because you haven’t been hired on a particular timeline and you have to pursue your mil training...explain it as soon as you know what your new timeline is.

People run into problems when they set an availability they had no intention of making and then changing it after the CJO.

I’m sure more can chime in.


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[HossHarris]

7 hours ago, AlphaMikeFoxtrot said:

Appreciate the words. I should've been a little more clear. The unit CC is urging me to apply sooner than later to the airlines and will shift FTU around accordingly. I think the most important question that I have is if I do not get an interview/offer between Jan '20 less terminal and Apr '20 is it frowned upon or even possible to shift my date of availability? I'd likely move it to the end of my seasoning then. I don't think it would be an issue but there's so many nuances to this process you never know.

Thanks again.

Moving your availability date prior to an actual interview is no big deal.  Airlines won’t care and likely won’t notice. 

Folks were getting in trouble, or shown the door, for changes AFTER the interview. Basically they got hired and then said, “oh by the way, i really can’t start in February .... how’s August sound?”  If they think you’re being dishonest you’re sunk. 

Prior to the interview, you can change dates and stuff on your app as you see fit 

Edited February 28, 2019 by HossHarris

[SocialD]

Put your date of separation as your earliest available start date, then take the earliest available class they offer.  Like speed, seniority is life!  Get hired, through training/OE/consolidation and maybe off probation, then worry about the FTU.  It sounds like you have a good SQ/CC willing to work with you on dates...capitalize on that opportunity.  My OG looked at me funny when I walked into his office and told him I'm giving up my IPUG class date to start training at the airline...he's now at the airlines and I think grasps my reasoning. 

 

[TreeA10]

I'll add to that seniority concept.  At AA, we've absorbed Reno Air, TWA, and the US Air East/West pilots.  Each of these integration's cost seniority numbers.  Had my seniority date been 5 days sooner, 270 Reno guys would be behind me and not in front of me, lost another 700+ with TWA, and @2500 with US Air.  The guy right behind in my new hire class and therefore the next on the seniority list is now 5 numbers behind me. 

[SocialD]

Flew with a guy once who has a twin brother at DAL (actually flown with both now).  One was hired at DAL and his brother was hired 3 months later at NWA.  When the seniority list integration happened, they ended up 1,900 numbers apart.  One has been a WB Captain for the last 15 years and the other is stuck as a NB Captain.

[LJ Driver]

Ok, you guys bring up some interesting points to strategize here. So here is my situation:  I am retiring and going on terminal leave this summer. I have my availability set to one month after I start terminal so I can take some downtime with family. I would REALLY like to work for FedEx, but I think they don’t even consider you unless you are within a month or two of available.

Should I keep my availability as-is and hope to get a close-in interview, or change it to available now, knowing that I’ll actually not be available until a month after I retire (and then change it before the interview)? That feels a lot like lying and gaming the system to me, and I’m not interested in pissing off the company I want to start career #2 in. I’m also a planner when it comes to life and family - and I would like to have my ducks in a row to know that I have a job lined up in retirement. 

[nunya]

41 minutes ago, LJ Driver said:

change it to available now, knowing that I’ll actually not be available until a month after I retire (and then change it before the interview)?

No 

[Jaded]

You should change your availability to the day you start terminal leave. You'll get some time after indoc to spend with the family. You (understandably) don't appreciate what 1 month of seniority means. 

[MooseAg03]

So I’ve noticed differences between AirlineApps and Pilot Credentials in logging hours. Airline Apps has a spot for PIC, SIC, etc but also has a spot for Total time. Pilot Credentials only has PIC, SIC, and Instructor. Do I log primary time that wasn’t PIC as SIC for Pilot Credentials? I have a lot more Primary than actual PIC by the airline definition.

 

 

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[JeremiahWeed]

Fellas, this isn't rocket surgery.  Give an availability date that reflects the first day you can show up for day one at airline X and at least complete initial training.  The guy with the flexible FTU dates is kind of an anomaly.  Whatever airline hires you is expecting you to allow for whatever known absences you have coming in the future.  If you get hired and have to drop mil leave half-way through new hire training, most likely airline X is going to ask if you knew about that mil duty when you took the job.  Tap dancing around the answer to that question isn't going to bode well for your future with that particular airline, in my opinion.  If it's FedEx, I guarantee you that they'll show you the door if it comes to light that you were playing fast and loose with the definition of "available".

To the guy with 8-10 months of pending FTU (what aircraft is that anyway?  That's a long-ass FTU).  If your CC can push your FTU dates as required with 100% certainty, then I'd give an availability date based on sep and terminal leave.  As a minimum, get through indoc and your initial training.  In a perfect world, you finish your first year and get off probation but that's not an absolute.  If you have to drop mil leave before that to go to FTU, then you do.  There's a big difference between that and taking a start date knowing you have a hard conflict that won't even allow you to get to the line.

[JeremiahWeed]

I feel a bit remiss not adding some perspective to my last "trip of justice" post for those guys who may be considering FedEx.  As far as the 777 goes, that was an above average trip - primarily for two reasons.  1) the front-end deadhead to Paris and 2) the one leg per duty period.  But, if you take off the deadhead and have the trip start in Memphis, that's a very average and attainable trip for anyone with just a few years of seniority..  That is primarily because it's a flying trip (FO trip versus an RFO trip) and it's longer than some care to fly.  FO trips are not as popular as RFO trips because every leg of an RFO trip is over 8 hours and typically generates more pay per duty period, potentially averaging as high at 8-10 hours of pay per day.  I like flying to maintain some proficiency every now and then (as opposed to RFOing every month), I like deadheading from home to work in first class, so I don't mind the minor hit in pay per day to do a trip like that.

The nice thing about the 777 flying at FedEx is the trips are not hugely different.  A much more junior trip than the one I had might have one or two duty periods with two legs intra-Asia or intra-Europe but other than that be very similar even including the deadhead to Paris.  We have one somewhat notorious trip that has three short legs in one day from Cologne to Paris to Munich to Frankfurt which is the only time any of us see more than two legs in one day.  The good thing is that it's all day flying (Europe day) but it obviously opens up the door to delays and weather challenges with more legs.  The bottom line for now on the 777 flying at FedEx is that it's attainable relatively quickly for new hires and it's relatively good considering the other options.

Those other options are what I really wanted to throw out.  The domestic, night flying that FedEx is famous for is really like being at a completely different airline.   It really doesn't matter what aircraft you're talking about - MD-11/MD-10, A300, 767 or 757 all do the same kind of stuff.  You commute in Monday night late, arrive Memphis around midnight or if you're local you show up for work at about 0200 and fly to city X, arriving around 0500-0700.  The best case scenario is you stop there, go to the hotel and sleep as long as you can during the day.  You leave 12-16 hours later, fly back to Memphis and do it all again the next morning and so on all week.  The variables that make a particular schedule far better or far worse are length of flights, number of legs, direction of flights, etc.  If you fly west, you land in the dark.  Fly to the east coast and you're staring at the rising sun at top of descent which starts your body's wake-up cycle and makes it harder to sleep when you get to the hotel.  Senior pilots are flying one leg from MEM to say, Birmingham (:45 block), arriving at 0500, laying over for 16 hours and flying one leg back to MEM that night, arriving just before midnight.  They do the same thing three hours later - rinse and repeat all week.  Or, they deadhead to Atlanta on Monday morning and leave that night at midnight to fly up to Newark and return to ATL by 0530 that morning.  17 hours later, they do the same evolution again.  Repeat all week until arrival Friday morning from Newark.  10-12 hours later that Friday night, they deadhead home.   Not bad duty if you live in Atlanta or can deadhead there easily, but I wouldn't say it's the easiest flying for those who may not adapt that well to back side of the clock work.  There are far worse nights that consist of working between 2300 and 0600 flying three legs (Detroit-Newark-Syracuse-Buffalo) 14 hours off and then do the reverse routing the next night, similar layover and then start again in the original direction.  They stick a Sunday night deadhead to Detroit and a Friday night deadhead home and it's doable, but you're working for you money - no doubt.  The 757 pilots based in Cologne have some of the toughest flying we have.  Similar night flying patterns to what I already described.  Three legs a night on many trips in busy Euro airspace combined with typical winter weather challenges there make for some long, difficult duty periods.

There are pilots who choose this kind of flying because they may live in a particular city that allows them to be home every night (day) for their layovers or be in place already and forgo the deadhead to city X and get paid to be at home for most of day one and day last.  Some like the daytime options which follow a similar pattern, leaving Memphis in the afternoon, short layover in city X, returning the following morning very early and repeating that afternoon for the week.  Other guys just don't care for the long-haul options and are willing to accept the downside of the domestic pattern.  Whatever the reason, we're fortunate that the wide variety of flying attracts all types and lots of pilots find their niche.

I just wanted to try to give some balance to the international snap shot I gave in the last post.  Lots and lots of variety, but some is vastly different and considerably more work (in my opinion) depending on a/c, base and mission.

[HossHarris]

18 hours ago, MooseAg03 said:

So I’ve noticed differences between AirlineApps and Pilot Credentials in logging hours. Airline Apps has a spot for PIC, SIC, etc but also has a spot for Total time. Pilot Credentials only has PIC, SIC, and Instructor. Do I log primary time that wasn’t PIC as SIC for Pilot Credentials? I have a lot more Primary than actual PIC by the airline definition.

 

 

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Read the directions / help for each section for each airline. It varies. 

Whatever you actually put in, be able to justify it / back it up with paperwork / explain to someone who has never seen an airplane (HR monkey) in terms a 4 year old would understand. 

[Smokin]

On 2/28/2019 at 6:42 AM, HossHarris said:

Moving your availability date prior to an actual interview is no big deal.  Airlines won’t care and likely won’t notice. 

Folks were getting in trouble, or shown the door, for changes AFTER the interview. Basically they got hired and then said, “oh by the way, i really can’t start in February .... how’s August sound?”  If they think you’re being dishonest you’re sunk. 

Prior to the interview, you can change dates and stuff on your app as you see fit 

Word of caution, as far as I know the legacy airlines save or print your app the day they send the invite to the interview.  We had to sit down and make any changes in red ink, so don't put down an availability you can't make thinking you can change it later.  I've heard guys advise to put down one date to get the interview and then change the availability as soon as you have an interview secured.  A change of a few weeks would be easy to explain, but if it is significant, that will probably affect your interview results.

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

Word of caution, as far as I know the legacy airlines save or print your app the day they send the invite to the interview.  We had to sit down and make any changes in red ink, so don't put down an availability you can't make thinking you can change it later.  I've heard guys advise to put down one date to get the interview and then change the availability as soon as you have an interview secured.  A change of a few weeks would be easy to explain, but if it is significant, that will probably affect your interview results.

Copy all, thanks. Not trying to game it. Just have a short window of opportunity, that if called, interviewed, and offered I could slip my FTU date. If that window closes just looking to move my availability date to FTU grad date plus about 6 months.

[isuguy1234]

Is there a normal way part time guard/reserve folks while also flying for an airline do health insurance?  Or is it the std it depends answer?  I’ve heard tricare select and airline dental, what do u all do with a family?

[nunya]

3 minutes ago, isuguy1234 said:

I’ve heard tricare select and airline dental, what do u all do with a family?

Yeah pretty much.  Family doesn't change anything... Still TRS.

[isuguy1234]

And how bout life insurance, still normal SGLI in the grd/res?

Then once out altogether, what’s the favorite life insurance company on the market?

[nunya]

I do the company life and add SGLI to reach the number I want. 

[SocialD]

Delta life insurance is something like 875k and we only pay tax on an "imputed" income based on "gracious" nature of our life insurance.  

I use TRS, with delta dental and vision.

[Merle Dixon]

1 hour ago, isuguy1234 said:

And how bout life insurance, still normal SGLI in the grd/res?

Then once out altogether, what’s the favorite life insurance company on the market?

Yup, TRS for you and the family is $215ish per month. I have DAL vision and dental and DAL life insurance and an AAFMAA term policy. I am sure UAL, AA and SWA have life insurance, vision and dental too.