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Zulu

Guard Flying with a Civilian Job

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Two similar questions here, both having to do with civilian employer requirements for holding your job.

I am going to be a senior in college majoring in mechanical engineering. I am planning on applying to some guard units that I am interested in, but also for a full time engineering job. My scores are good, but I'm not sure any guard unit will pick me up on my first application as I am pretty young. My question is, are civilian employers legally required to hold my job for me when I get back? I know that they are legally required to when you deploy in the guard, but I'm not sure how this works with pilot training.

Also, I think ideally I would like to fly full time for the guard. But if I am not able to fly full time (let's say I fly something like 5 times a month, something more than the typical drill weekends and 2 weeks required) are they required to keep my job?

I didn't think in any of these circumstances an employer would be required to keep my job, but reading another post made me wonder. Just trying to figure out what my options are so that I have a job before I am picked up by a unit and hopefully can find something that works if I am part time with a unit. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Edited by Zulu

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Apply to all, accept what shakes out.  You can be full time ANG if the spots are available, in fact, you'll be full time for about 3 years at first.  "Part time" ANG members in the fighter community have to fly 5 times a month, its more than "1 weekend a month".  USERRA says they have to hold your job, but I don't think they'll be happy about it.

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6 minutes ago, matmacwc said:

Apply to all, accept what shakes out.  You can be full time ANG if the spots are available, in fact, you'll be full time for about 3 years at first.  "Part time" ANG members in the fighter community have to fly 5 times a month, its more than "1 weekend a month".  USERRA says they have to hold your job, but I don't think they'll be happy about it.

Just to clarify, does USERRA require them to hold my job for me after ~2 years of training and ~3 years of seasoning? That seems like way too stupid (not sure if this would even be a good thing) to be true. Especially since I would be volunteering for the guard, and it's not like it's a required deployment after already being in.

Also if I'm flying 5 times a month (let's just say every Monday), they are also required to have a job for me Tue-Fri? If this is true, I doubt any typical salaried employer would hire you knowing you are going to be flying 5+ days a month, which means that you would need that job before you started flying, which was 5 years ago...

I guess do any part time pilots hold traditional jobs that aren't flying for the airlines? Seems nearly impossible that an employer would be required to put up with that shit.

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Yes, they have to hold your job for a maximum of 5 years (ie you can be gone for up to 5 years as a full time military member then come back with no penalty).  Yes, they have to employ you tues-friday if you work for the guard on monday.  If they don't hire you because of your guard job that's discrimination against the military - not something employers want to have on their record.  Not to mention, if you are in the military - particularly an officer - they have a pretty good chance at you not being a raging limfac or a total drunken idiot.  

 

You need to re-evaluate your perspective - "putting up with that shit" is pretty far from the truth.  As a guardsman you are protecting the freedom and the capitalist society that makes that employer able to hire you.  They are not "putting up with that shit" - they have an opportunity to employ a very highly skilled, highly trained motivated operator that is likely better than 90% of the rest of the company.  

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8 minutes ago, EvilEagle said:

Yes, they have to hold your job for a maximum of 5 years (ie you can be gone for up to 5 years as a full time military member then come back with no penalty).  Yes, they have to employ you tues-friday if you work for the guard on monday.  If they don't hire you because of your guard job that's discrimination against the military - not something employers want to have on their record.  Not to mention, if you are in the military - particularly an officer - they have a pretty good chance at you not being a raging limfac or a total drunken idiot.  

 

You need to re-evaluate your perspective - "putting up with that shit" is pretty far from the truth.  As a guardsman you are protecting the freedom and the capitalist society that makes that employer able to hire you.  They are not "putting up with that shit" - they have an opportunity to employ a very highly skilled, highly trained motivated operator that is likely better than 90% of the rest of the company.  

Thanks for the great response. Seems like having a part time flying gig wouldn't be as bad as I thought.

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12 minutes ago, Zulu said:

Thanks for the great response. Seems like having a part time flying gig wouldn't be as bad as I thought.

It's the gravy that flows out of DD titties. To clarify, a lot of businesses can make it hard for a part time ANG dude, its illegal, but it happens.

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40 minutes ago, EvilEagle said:

UPT is USERRA exempt - as are your seasoning days after UPT.

Out of curiosity do you know if this exemption applies to all UFT or only to UPT specifically? I'm attending URT in the near future while working as a full-time civ now and want to fully understand the exact rules of the road re: USERRA. Would also love to check out the actual reg or statute on that if ya have it handy. Thanks in advance! :beer:

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Don't you get Title 10 orders for UPT? I thought that was sufficient to be covered under USERRA

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What we are saying is the full time orders you are on while in UPT or seasoning days don't count against your 5 years of USERRA. After those orders are done then you can pick up another 5 years of title 10 orders or 32 if state and fly for 8 years total without issue.


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12 hours ago, Zulu said:

My scores are good, but I'm not sure any guard unit will pick me up on my first application as I am only 21.

You may be over-thinking... Never self-eliminate. A young guy, soon to have a mechanical engineering degree, with good scores? If you make a good impression while rushing, the worst that can happen is that they might tell you that the reason they didn't consider you is because you are too far away from graduating. It might suck to hear, but now you're familiar face who they know is interested, and a good dude... that's a way better position to be in than some dude they only know on paper.

The guys above me already answered the legal aspect of job security. Get a government job if you really want to know the extent of job security.

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Here is a link to the Employer Support of the Guard and Reserve (ESGR).

They are a wealth of knowledge of all things employer/military related

here is a link to their USERRA page.  Feel free to look up your local ESGR reps in your state for guidance.

http://www.esgr.mil/USERRA/What-is-USERRA

 

I hope this helps

Edited by JustHangingOut
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Did some reading on it but one thing is vague for me: anyone know if vesting of company stock offering would be covered by the "rights and benefits determined by seniority" clause during eligible leave? My employer is saying stock options don't vest under any kind of leave of absence

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Vesting of company stock has to happen as if there was no break in employment upon reemployment with the company is how I read it.

Edit: Sorry, this is dependent on your company’s stock plan and how it treats a leave of absence. My company allows it to vest, so my statement is correct for me, but looks like it could be incorrect for you. Depending on the amounts, it may be worth talking to your local USERRA rep or an attorney.

Edited by Sit On Acorns
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Don't worry about your age.  I often found it to be an advantage and an easy conversation piece when visiting units- though keep in mind that if a unit has some guys they like that are older, often enlisted, they will have an upper hand just because they may have families and not many days before they're 28/29.  
I started visiting the units up and down the freeway from me when I had just turned 20, and was hired Feb 2017 just after my 22nd birthday and 4 months before I graduated college as an engineer.

My biggest piece of advice - apply to engineering internships and jobs at the same time as pursuing an ANG/AFR spot just to keep yourself busy.  I was kind of over my engineering experience (not a great department) and didn't try that hard to give myself an internship/entry level job to keep me busy this summer while waiting for OTS.  Luckily I should only have a few more months of being a "bum" working odd-jobs in my home town.  To be honest though I had some money saved up and have been flying and enjoying this time before I go.

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