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xcraftllc

Space Corps Good or Bad?

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I am sure the uniforms will be epic!

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16 hours ago, xcraftllc said:

What do you think about a Space Corps?

I'll commit to IDK... seems tempting but is it analogous that the "Air" Force which currently has the majority of military space assets is not investing / exploiting space to its fullest extent for military purposes in power projection for the US as the US Army was judged to be immediately after WWII thus beginning our existence as a separate service?  

I would argue that Space is not to be separated from the Air Force but the Air Force needs to become the US Air & Space Force.

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It was my understanding from my handful of brainwashing sessions that we are currently flying, fighting and winning in air, space and cyberspace...

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We are doing this all wrong, it needs to be Joint!  SPACECOM, SOCSPA, JICSPA, SPAAF, SPAFLT, MARFORSPA, USARSPA.  This is how you get more $$, GOs, and civilian billets!!!

 

/s

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18 minutes ago, panchbarnes said:

We are doing this all wrong, it needs to be Joint!  SPACECOM, SOCSPA, JICSPA, SPAAF, SPAFLT, MARFORSPA, USARSPA.  This is how you get more $$, GOs, and civilian billets!!!

 

/s

Copy sarcasm.  That said, I think you are on the right track.  Make it a COCOM (independent of STRATCOM), not a specialized train/equip force.

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That may be the answer, it just pains me to think about the inevitable bloat that comes with a new CCMD.  I trust the CSAF with regards to the timing of a new Space Corp.  Also you know STRATCOM is going to put up a fight.

Edited by panchbarnes
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I say bring it on.  It is a different enough battlespace to warrant its own specialist force.  What would Billy Mitchell do?

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This is the problem now with our most basic way of organizing our branches of the military by domains, everybody's mission(s) overlap into someone else's domains at least a little bit and lot sometimes.

Domain(s) are probably past their time in the way we organize and assign forces/missions.  I would say reorganize more on the way you carry out operations or the type of operations: conventional / special / strategic / hybrid.

Conventional - traditional kill people and break things with kinetic energy / explosive force and soon directed energy in mass and overt formations.

Special - focused kill people and break things with aforementioned means but in small(er) units, clandestine methods typically and executed from different political circumstances or authorizations (often).

Strategic - usually and hopefully only promising to kill people and break things with nuclear weapons, monitoring from space the threat of attack with nuclear weapons and I would add now monitoring for major or national security threat level cyber attack and responding in kind or in defense.

Hybrid - light(er) conventional military capability usually done for humanitarian / stabilization or for LE support.

 

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Yes to all of those last three posts in my opinion. I say cyber and space go there own way but we also double up on the importance of the joint and specialized missions mentality. It will complicate things, but it will also allow each organization to have a better identity and focus, something I think has been rather vague since the end of the cold war. It would be nice for the Air Force to refocus itself on combat aviation and distance the association with the space cadets and cyber nerds (gotta love em though). There would be a lot less "nonners" in the ranks and I think the average airman would be more proud of the Air Force identity and uniform.

Back to a sense of humor though, what the hell kind of rank structure and basic training/field exercises would those guys do anyway?

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The best thing about a space corps is that it will inevitably lead to a United States Space Academy...and at said academy there will be --- Space Cadets. I, for one, can't wait until space cadets are a real thing.


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I think more accurately it's: [insert service here] wants the funding associated with space "corps."

Probably just a jaded view, though.
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1 hour ago, SurelySerious said:

I think more accurately it's: [insert service here] wants the funding associated with space "corps."

Probably just a jaded view, though.

Likely.  

 

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I think more accurately it's: [insert service here] wants the funding associated with space "corps."

 

Probably just a jaded view, though.

Considering the dick dance done over intra-theatre transport, ISR, and Ballistic Missile Defense, etc....

 

I don't see how you could watch the services come to the table in front of Congress arguing they need job X over service Y and come to any other conclusion.

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On 6/25/2017 at 10:54 AM, Clark Griswold said:

I'll commit to IDK... seems tempting but is it analogous that the "Air" Force which currently has the majority of military space assets is not investing / exploiting space to its fullest extent for military purposes in power projection for the US as the US Army was judged to be immediately after WWII thus beginning our existence as a separate service?  

I would argue that Space is not to be separated from the Air Force but the Air Force needs to become the US Air & Space Force.

But has space not become such a vast and growing domain (much like air power in WW2), that it doesn't warrant it's own service? I think it's arguable the AF is not much different from the Army post-WW2 in wanting to keep a hold of all the toys, but doesn't have the capacity to use/develop those toys to their fullest capabilities. Thank god we became our own service, because in 2017 the Army still showcases daily how fucking retarded they are with the use of air power. I wouldn't be surprised to hear some space guys say the same thing about their current services.

I say let them become their own service. The con is the asspain of joint coordination (by the way, coordinating space effects today is a metric asspain, so it's not like we're losing easy coord capes by shedding space), but the pros of better space capability/future ingenuity and taking that domain off the AF plate = more focus on AIR domain is more than worth it. I like the space nerds, they do great things, so this isn't flicking a booger, it's making all of us better/stronger in our true areas of expertise. 

And for fuck's sake, let's not be like the Army and act like we know best how to do everything...everyone stay in your lane and we'd be way better off as a military in general. FYI, that comment is not directed at the bros doing the J-O-B.

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32 minutes ago, brabus said:

But has space not become such a vast and growing domain (much like air power in WW2), that it doesn't warrant it's own service? I think it's arguable the AF is not much different from the Army post-WW2 in wanting to keep a hold of all the toys, but doesn't have the capacity to use/develop those toys to their fullest capabilities. Thank god we became our own service, because in 2017 the Army still showcases daily how fucking retarded they are with the use of air power. I wouldn't be surprised to hear some space guys say the same thing about their current services.

I say let them become their own service. The con is the asspain of joint coordination (by the way, coordinating space effects today is a metric asspain, so it's not like we're losing easy coord capes by shedding space), but the pros of better space capability/future ingenuity and taking that domain off the AF plate = more focus on AIR domain is more than worth it. I like the space nerds, they do great things, so this isn't flicking a booger, it's making all of us better/stronger in our true areas of expertise. 

And for fuck's sake, let's not be like the Army and act like we know best how to do everything...everyone stay in your lane and we'd be way better off as a military in general. FYI, that comment is not directed at the bros doing the J-O-B.

That's possible (space has out grown the Air Force) and possibly cyber but really it is the idea of doman-centric military branches that is outdated IMO.

Everyone spills a little bit or some into someone else's domain and that organizing the military differently, by scale/type of military operations to be performed is the better approach.  It has the risk of having branches that in reality are only focused on a set of missions and pay only lip service to others but some would argue we have that now, i.e. space/cyber/coin/etc...

Not a military historian but the idea of domain organized militaries comes from the very beginning of history and carried on to today, with our technology and capabilities, why is it that we think this is still a good model?

Specifically though on your point, I can see your point that we are restricting the natural growth in military capability and I can also see the SECAF & CSAF position (doesn't support and their reasoning - unnecessary bureaucratic separation while the at least saying they want to integrate space) - my preference would be The AF putting a ring on it and becoming the The United States Air and Space Force or really totally reorganizing the DoD into 4 branches:

Conventional - Strategic - Special - Hybrid.  Not by domains but missions (size/style/culture/synergy).  

That would be the Mt. Everest of bureaucratic reorgs so I give it 0.69% so "fixing" the AF seems the most realistic COA.  

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I wonder if in this "Space Force" all space-based capabilities and effects will be transferred. In addition to the AF-Navy interservice rivalries, will the NRO give up their birds as well? They have a very large presence, (ex. 1/3 of the 2016 ULA manifest was dedicated to NRO payloads), plus multiple ground stations. If we're really going to create a new domain based service, better to move all of the white and black programs together instead of peace-mealing it.

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Bureaucracy loves creating more bureaucracy, all I see is this space corps gobbling up a shit load of budget for little to no return.  Proof will be when they launch a rocket costing $100 million and Space X does the same for $10 million...oh wait they already do.

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I wonder if in this "Space Force" all space-based capabilities and effects will be transferred. In addition to the AF-Navy interservice rivalries, will the NRO give up their birds as well? They have a very large presence, (ex. 1/3 of the 2016 ULA manifest was dedicated to NRO payloads), plus multiple ground stations. If we're really going to create a new domain based service, better to move all of the white and black programs together instead of peace-mealing it.

 

I'd have to wonder what the delineation line would be.

 

Kinda like with the current surface to surface ballistic missile or Air Defense models, at what point do the service patches change by doctrine.

 

That seems to be a lot harder with space when a lot of what you are talking about is ground based to monitor both air and space (big radars in Greenland etc). Same with say the big missile field. The dudes living underground are only part of the transition. Does the Space Force just inherit a huge chunk of the AF UH-1 community and the security guys that go with them? Do they get slots in AF flight school now?

 

This won't be easy to rewrite the book.

 

 

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