ToyotaMC1 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) I always thought the Air Force was the one place where equality and fairness actually meant something. Boy was I wrong. I knew this all along after I sat in on my first court martial. I thought if the kid who was being court martialed had a REAL lawyer he would walk free. If your defense counsel breaks out a PowerPoint presentation you should fire him/her or expect to be found guilty period. I told the Lt Col for JAG I will not be apart of another court martial due to the AF being just as biased as the civilian court system. He told me the WG/CC really wanted me on the board. I told my CC it's biased to his face too. The proof is in the pudding: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/06/07/black-troops-much-twice-likely-punished-commanders-courts/102555630/ Edited June 18, 2017 by ToyotaMC1 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) Correlation vs causation: what is it? Note for the OP: Civilian attorneys are better than most ADCs no matter what race, gender, or any other immutable characteristic unrelated to our character. Edited June 18, 2017 by Hacker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hispeed7721 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Correlation vs causation: what is it?95% of murderers were chewing gum on the day they killed someone. Chewing gum obviously causes people to become murderers. That's how it works, right? Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 Man I hate feeding the troll... I didn't read your article either. Stats can be manipulated to prove any point for someone with an agenda.Having said that, I sat on a rather severe court martial recently and was quite disgusted by several of the other officers mindset during sentencing. Things like "we have to send a message", "what will the Wing Commander think of me if we let this guy off light?" were actually said during the discussion. All in all, I was pretty happy that cooler heads prevailed, but it scared the crap out of me if I was ever on the other side of AF justice...Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BashiChuni Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 My bull shit flag goes up anytime I hear someone say they're gonna do anything to "send a message" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 My bullshit flag goes up anytime someone brags online about how they gave someone of senior rank the "what for" to "their face."Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 My BS flag gets thrown down every time i don't hear the crime vs evidence. Content of character vs color of the skin still holds true. Anything else is crap social justice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HU&W Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 That was the dumbest article I've read all week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
war007afa Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, HU&W said: That was the dumbest article I've read all week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I like to be intellectually lazy and frame every problem in terms of race as well as decide that racism is the only possible root cause. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitzo Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 Man I hate feeding the troll... I didn't read your article either. Stats can be manipulated to prove any point for someone with an agenda.Having said that, I sat on a rather severe court martial recently and was quite disgusted by several of the other officers mindset during sentencing. Things like "we have to send a message", "what will the Wing Commander think of me if we let this guy off light?" were actually said during the discussion. All in all, I was pretty happy that cooler heads prevailed, but it scared the crap out of me if I was ever on the other side of AF justice...Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network ForumsNot a JAG but isn't that undue command influence?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 It's unlawful command influence and probably not...based on what was said. Not a JAG either, but a Commander basically has to tell you that you will do X or there will be consequences. A person having some idea that he might look like a p*ssy or not based on his verdict versus doing the right and just thing is not unlawful command influence. What would be different is if the guy said well the Wing CC told me that I would not be getting that CC job unless I dropped the hammer in this court martial so I am ready to screw this guy over.Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azimuth Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) On 6/23/2017 at 7:13 PM, Herk Driver said: It's unlawful command influence and probably not...based on what was said. Not a JAG either, but a Commander basically has to tell you that you will do X or there will be consequences. A person having some idea that he might look like a p*ssy or not based on his verdict versus doing the right and just thing is not unlawful command influence. What would be different is if the guy said well the Wing CC told me that I would not be getting that CC job unless I dropped the hammer in this court martial so I am ready to screw this guy over. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Wing CC's get around that whole "fair and impartial panel member" called for by the UCMJ by selecting the most "qualified member" for a Special Court Martial, or recommending to Convening Authority for a General Court Martial. What does that mean? A lot of Sq/CC's. I had six Officers on my panel, three were Sq/CC's (as was the President) and one DO who was going to be a Sq/CC. Five FGO's and one Captain. However any side can challenge any member for cause of bias (must be approved by the Military Judge) and both sides gets a preemptory strike, which means they can kick a member off the panel without cause. Interesting note, both sides employ a forensic psychologist who's job is to sit on witness interviews and make notes for the lawyers. They also sit in the gallery during the court martial and take notes on potential panel members during Voir Dire (picking of the panel members) to give to the lawyers and accused to make recommendations to boot, or keep certain panel members. Edited June 26, 2017 by Azimuth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Interesting that you said No but nothing I said contradicted what you wrote.Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azimuth Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 25 minutes ago, Herk Driver said: Interesting that you said No but nothing I said contradicted what you wrote. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Fixed because I'm a mouth breather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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