The cadet email thread

[Scooter14]

Much like Bergman's noise complaint, you can't make shit like this up.

Hilarious.

[SelfLase]

Priceless!

[Guest pcoandgo]

Gotta love google cache...

Make sure to read the entry for Saturday, December 3, 2005. HA!! (All I have to do is call...)

[F-15E WSO]

Nice work...

I love it. "All I have to do is call" Great stuff.

[ 16. December 2006, 22:30: Message edited by: F-15E WSO ]

[Mark1]

This consists of you talking to your commander, your commander talking to our commander, somebody in between giving the approval, and then in the middle of your pipe dream you will be denied your flight.

Haha, classic.

But the post did bring up a question (it might be a stupid one but I'm totally ignorant to the situation). Are F-15E WSO instructors F-15E pilots? Obviously there isn't room for a WSO student, WSO instructor, and pilot. Or is all the WSO instruction done on the ground and only practiced in the air (without an instructor)?

[osulax05]

Makes me wonder what they teach at the zoo

[Guest Me]

Personally I think the Major is a dick.

He had a good opportunity to teach the young dink to have more SA and instead humiliated the kid.

Before the holier-then-thou types go blasting the Academy, I have seen many dumbass threads on this forum about cadets trying to get rides.

Here's his apology to his 'mates copied from edodo...

People don’t understand the situation and are making incorrect assumptions. I never even talked to Major X. I was working with a 2nd Lt. who I had previously contacted and who was legitimately trying to get me a ride. The 2nd Lt. asked for my contact info which is where my original email came from. The next morning, the 2nd Lt. emailed me explaining how Major X got my email address. The 2nd Lt. told me that he didn’t type the email saying that I was the cadet who kept bugging the squadron; his commander, a captain, forwarded my email to Major X using the 2nd Lt.’s account. That’s how Major X snagged my email address and did the damage. Please spread the word: I didn’t do anything headstrong or unprofessional; I was just trying to coordinate a ride like hundreds if not thousands of other cadets have done before me. Please understand that I wasn’t trying to jump in front of a person more deserving of an incentive ride, and I didn’t have any intentions to disgrace you, the Trolls, or the Cadet Wing. Thanks for your support!

[Ferg]

I know the 'Major' in question. The cadet's rebuttal (backpedaling) is not true.

[Guest J Barnes]

Originally posted by Me:

Personally I think the Major is a dick.

I just got this email at Randolph today. I think this Major is right on, and so do the 6 Maintenance squadrons I forwarded at Luke. You think this Major is a Dick? He's honest, so pay heed SNAP. If you're a cadet, don't repost.

[Guest Me]

I think I've pulled too many days in OIF to be considered a SNAP. Been a long time since I have been a cadet. Is that OK with you, SNAP?

Sorry, just my personal opinion. I've never been known to be a bleeding heart, but I don't think the punishment fit the crime. The full fledged fist **** was necessary, much less forwarding it to everyone and their mother. Tell the yute to get his chin in and wait his turn. Unleash the AOC on him.

I've had to put up with too many ROTC and zoo cadets and have seen both sources produce their fair share of nimrods. We give rides all the time in the Herk, I guess I'm just missing what the big deal is about someone asking for a ride. As long as the cadets take their pukey bags with them, I can care less.

Flame on...

[Guest J Barnes]

It's different in the MX world, rides are a BIG deal. That's how it worked for F-16's, some maintainers never get a ride unless they're yearly award winners or maybe a quarterly award winner. I spent 10 years working F-16 avionics and seen more CSS and finance troops get incentive rides over crew chiefs.

I didn't think it was fair.

I guess you can consider me biased.

Maybe I can fly with you someday and you can teach me all about the Air Force (Being that you've spent time in OIF)

[HerkDerka]

The Maj may seem harsh. But it sounds like this kid has been bugging the schedulers.

Scheduling shops are the busiest shops in the squadron. Any cadets who bypass the normal routes and directly call (and pester) a squadron's scheduling shop deserve what they get.

HD

[Scooter14]

Here's what it boils down to, in eqation format...

Major > Cadet

It doesn't matter how harsh he was, or how much of a dick he was. It's his perogative. Like a MSgt chewing a SrA's ass, or when you are on the carpet in front of your DO because you just left the secrets unattended, it's never fair.

You sit there, and you take it.

Why? Because it's the military.

***** all you want to your friends, but it won't do you any good.

Like HD said, you reap what you sow.

[Scooter14]

Oh Really? Did you read the part of the edodo where the kid complained to a Lt Gen, the Lt Gen stepped in and "took care of" the Major and the cadet was invited by the SJ AFB Wing Commander for a Strike Eagle ride?

No, I did not read the eDodo board.

It figures.

I'll shut up now, because there truly is no justice.

[Guest Me]

LOL... Big Clover. I wasn't getting into a dick swinging contest. You assumed I was a SNAP or a cadet just for thinking the Major went overboard, which I find that interesting. I was just showing that I have more then earned my keep flying the Herk- I am by no means a newbie and I am definatelty not a grey beard. I know there are a lot of people on this board who have done more. BTW- I did not even know Randolph had military mx anymore- I thought the UPT aircraft were all contracted out. Even the saltier ones can learn something new everyday I guess.

HD is right, but why didn't the Lt tell the kid to bug off? I know our scheds would have NO problem grabbing the nearest grad and letting the zoomie union take care of it. Not sure why it would ever be a field graders concern, but who knows...

However, I think gearpig summed it up best... getting into a battle of the wits with an unarmed cadet is just retarded. I do agree that cadets should be waaaaay in the back of the line for rides, they haven't done a damn thing to deserve a ride... but I remember I time about 8 years ago when I did not see the big picture.

I just happen to think he went overboard, especially by forwarding it on to all the people he did. If that doesn't agree with the mainstream opinion around here then fine.

Flame on...

[ 15. December 2006, 21:40: Message edited by: Me ]

[Bergman]

Originally posted by Scooter14:

No, I did not read the eDodo board.

It figures.

I'll shut up now, because there truly is no justice.

[Guest Me]

I am confused though Bergman... this thread was started by a ROTC kid getting ready to go beg for rides, correct? He was wanting to know if the card would help his quest? The USAFA kid is a douchebag for doing the same thing? All the kids on Ops get rides, I'm still not getting why its a big deal for a cadet to ask over x-mas. I knew several people who got rides from their local guard units when they went home. I never asked, but after knowing many people (both ROTC and USAFA) who got rides way back when I wish I had gotten that experience.

If he was bugging the scheds, he should get reamed... but I saw nothing in his email outside of typical lack of SA that should generate a Major putting that much thought into his reply except for getting his rocks off putting a cadet down.

Unfortunately the little peckerwood will get what he wants because the Maj went off on him over an email, and then fowarded it around, which then got back to the higher ups. As I said earlier.... if only the Maj had reamed the kid over the phone it wouldn't even be an issue. Hopefully, the kid will have enough sense to decline the ride.

Well, its been fun boys, don't know why this thread tickled my fancy but it did.

Cheers.

[ 15. December 2006, 23:06: Message edited by: Me ]

[Bergman]

Originally posted by Me:

I am confused though Bergman... this thread was started by a ROTC kid getting ready to go beg for rides, correct? He was wanting to know if the card would help his quest? The USAFA kid is a douchebag for doing the same thing?

You're right, which is why I said "Not for trying to get an incentive ride, but for trying to game the system by going outside the normal channels. If the scheduler says "NO" then take a hint dude!" in my original post. There is nothing wrong with trying to snag a ride...hell, if you don't ask then the answer is automatically NO. As with many things in life, it's not the message...it's the delivery. Clearly this kid was being a douche about the whole affair, otherwise the Major probably wouldn't have taken the time to write such a long response.

If he was bugging the scheds, he should get reamed... but why is he a douchebag for simply asking? I saw nothing in his email outside of typical lack of SA that was offensive. He cleary needs some mentoring, but I see that from ROTC cadorks who tour on Ops as well. Hell, I remember being told by a ROTC dweeb that he'd SIE out of UPT then fly a heavy. Ouch!

Again, I agree. I just wonder why such a high percentage of USAFA and ROTC kids have no social grace at all.

Unfortunately the little peckerwood will get what he wants because the Maj went off on him over an email, and then fowarded it around, which then got back to the higher ups.

Which is a complete tragedy. In the old days this would be a non-issue. Perhaps he went a little overboard, but the response was funny and definitely needed. People need to lighten up, get a thicker skin, and stop being offended by every single thing they don't agree with. The 'entitlement mentality' in this country has reached epic/ridiculous proportion.

[Guest J Barnes]

This is why I never want to be a scheduler.

ME, I'm a Nav......or CSO.....actually I just answer phones all day and fill up staff cars with gas.

[Guest Me]

Nice reply Bergman, that's exactly how I feel.

Someone should have warned him not to piss off the meat eaters.

Big Clover- aaah, that makes more sense, the only thing I could think of was that you were doing a staff deal.

[Ferg]

Originally posted by Me:

this thread was started by a ROTC kid getting ready to go beg for rides, correct? He was wanting to know if the card would help his quest? The USAFA kid is a douchebag for doing the same thing?

Totally different. The kid who started this thread went to a public forum to ask if his card would help him get a ride. The USAFA cadet called directly to the scheduling shop (repeatedly). The first "No" he was given by the schedulers when he called on the phone should have been enough.

Originally posted by Me:

If he was bugging the scheds, he should get reamed... but I saw nothing in his email outside of typical lack of SA that should generate a Major putting that much thought into his reply except for getting his rocks off putting a cadet down.

The e-mail was plenty 'professional', but notice the message of the first guy who forwarded his request; "Here’s the guy who keeps calling up and bugging the scheduling shop about getting a flight." Agreed the response was a bit overboard, but apparently the cadet wasn't taking the hint.

[Guest Hoser]

Originally posted by Mark1:

But the post did bring up a question (it might be a stupid one but I'm totally ignorant to the situation). Are F-15E WSO instructors F-15E pilots? Obviously there isn't room for a WSO student, WSO instructor, and pilot. Or is all the WSO instruction done on the ground and only practiced in the air (without an instructor)?

Here's the normal crewing in the FTU:

For the Transition rides (until the student pilot get his initial instrument check on TR-6), the Upgrading Pilots (UP) have an Instructor Pilot (IP) in the trunk, and the Upgrading WSO's(UW) fly with IP's. After the initial instrument check, the UW's continue to fly with IP's, but the UP's would then start flying with Instructor WSO's (IW).

As always there are exceptions to the above general rules. There are quite a few sorties were the students will fly crew solo, so Flight lead would consist of an IP/IW and the UP/UW would be number 2. There are also times that the syllabus requires and IP in the rear seat of the UP: AHC sortie, first BFM ride, first day tanker, first night tanker, first LASDT, first range sortie with conventional patterns, night TR, etc.

As you see above, and in the major's defense, you can see that unless we are giving dedicated incentive/fam sorties (like a 2 ship of just fam rides), then we would be kicking a rated aircrew member out of a seat.

I personally agree that if anyone deserves a ride, it's the wrench turners. Freezing temps to 100+, standing in front of the jet in the rain while my wingman jumps to a spare, etc, they bust their sac day in and day out. Cheers to them.

Cap-10

[ 16. December 2006, 10:17: Message edited by: Cap-10 ]

[aceart]

Guys, I gotta know... did the kid get the ride and did the Major in question fly him?

As far as the card goes and the original question... geez, I wouldn't even hesitate, get it, the training alone I've always found invaluable, long course or short one and the 'egress breifing' I got before each and every sortie flew I would never complain about whatsoever. Extra time to talk to the guy that will probably be your pilot and a great refresher for stuff that you pray you don't have to do.

At least you don't have to coordinate everything through PA. "Not that there's anything wrong with that" but for photo guys, especially civ. the paperwork can be a long exercise in planning and patience. My card expired a year ago and in trying to schedule the refresher I found out that in this post 9/11 USAF you need direct 'sponsorship' from the unit that will fly you. Once you have it you're good to go it's just getting there, lol.

Fortunately I haven't needed to be above 18K so it's not a huge deal but I always had the impression that having the little piece of paper meant that you were a. serious b. took the time to learn something and c. have some level of respect for the paperwork chase.

[Whitman]

Originally posted by Bender:

It is not unprofessional to write something in an email you wouldn't say face to face.

Period.

I disagree. Unless of course you meant *is*

[Guest viper24]

The plot thickens...

C3C *********

Please let me apologize for the e-mail sent to you by Major ******. His e-mail does not represent the Air Force culture that we all

work so hard to build.

This nation is at war. What this nation needs is a cadre of patriots who fight and win America's wars. The qualities of character that make the most lethal warriors are humble, honest, professional Americans who

are compassionate and kind to one another as they take the fight to the

enemy with tenacity, resilience, and a fierce determination to win.

I thank you for committing to the defense of this nation as an officer

in the Air Force. I wish you all the success possible as you work to

sharpen the above characteristics within your own heart and soul.

Allow me to invite you to the 4th Fighter Wing between 21 Dec and 5 Jan

for a flight in the F-15E. We will show you first hand the proud and

honorable culture of great Americans who fight for this nation. We look

forward to you joining our ranks in the very near future.

Very Respectfully,

Col ***********

Commander, 4th Fighter Wing