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disgruntledemployee

The Next President is...

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2 hours ago, Vertigo said:

But basically the wall will not stop illegal activity. To think so is very naive.

 

Go with your thoughts on gun control.

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3 hours ago, Vertigo said:

Sorry I'm on vacation and don't want to waste it debating.

 

But basically the wall will not stop illegal activity. To think so is very naive.

 

Polls show the vast majority of Americans are not in favor of the wall. Yes I know polls can be wrong. But the last election was a swing away from Trump and his policies. Those millions also want to see the government responds to their wants, needs, and concerns... and they exceed those "deplorables" in number.

 

The GOP had 2 years to fund a wall. Nada. Why? 

Can't deny, the GOP messing up. 2 full years to defund PP, fund wall, etc. The GOP is a huge embarrassment. The party most likely needs to die and a party more aligned to the American right that is stronger and less flaky would be beneficial. But how are you going to say the wall won't stop illegal activity ie. illegal immigrants? Berlin wall? West Bank barrier? Oh yeah, people can just fly over the wall, or dig under the wall. Silly me. 

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3 hours ago, Vertigo said:

GOP had 2 years to fund a wall. Nada. Why

Self loathing. 

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3 hours ago, dream big said:

Trump’s personal style/tweets/gaffes aside, at least he is an honest pragmatist. 

 

Ahhhh, wuuuuuut? The guy who compulsively lies through his teeth on a daily basis is honest?  The guy who shits on gold toilets, rides gold elevators, and writes his name in gold letters 50 feet tall on all his buildings is a pragmatist?  Uh.......okie dokie. 

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2 hours ago, PrivateFighterPilotLicense said:

But how are you going to say the wall won't stop illegal activity ie. illegal immigrants? Berlin wall? West Bank barrier? Oh yeah, people can just fly over the wall, or dig under the wall. Silly me. 

Cause most of the bad shit/illegal aliens come through legal ports of entry. Determined people tend to find ways over, under, or through walls. Berlin Wall? What a great reference proving that walls have a tendency to be seen as oppressive. 

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6 hours ago, Vertigo said:

Sorry I'm on vacation and don't want to waste it debating.

But basically the wall will not stop illegal activity. To think so is very naive.

Polls show the vast majority of Americans are not in favor of the wall. Yes I know polls can be wrong. But the last election was a swing away from Trump and his policies. Those millions also want to see the government responds to their wants, needs, and concerns... and they exceed those "deplorables" in number.

The GOP had 2 years to fund a wall. Nada. Why? 

First, enjoy your vacation.

As to the wall, not all locked doors stop burglars but they stop enough of them they are worth the cost.  The walls/fencing/barriers/etc... in strategic locations will not stop all illegal crossings but they will stop much of it, dissuade some of it and force others to attempt crossing where they will be unable to cross, unwilling to cross or be more likely to be intercepted and stopped by BP.

Walls/Fences/Vehicle Barriers/Sensors/Patrol Roads/Lighting in adjoining urban areas and where LOCs cross international borders, everywhere else is covered as required with vehicle and foot patrols, outposts and aerial surveillance.  Pay for it with some reductions in overseas forward based forces in Korea, Japan and Europe to fund a permanent US military mission to the SW and Northern borders to assist CBP and CG.  America first. 

On the wall and your comment that I have a naive belief it will stop all illegal activity I will be more specific about my belief as to the specific benefit of the wall to sovereignty and security, it is there to mainly stop illegal crossing (vehicular and pedestrian) more than illegal immigration/illegal presence in the USA.  I am well aware that most illegal aliens in the USA are visa overstay violators versus illegal aliens who physically crossed the border.  The wall is part of the solution to assert sovereignty, enhance security and fight crime from illegal aliens, TNCOs, etc... other solutions are needed also (E-Verify, immediate return of illegal crossers, workplace immigration enforcement, etc...).

Will dispute your assertion that the vast majority of Americans are not in favor of "the wall".  Most polls reported in the media are push polls that ask skewered questions to illicit the desired response by the poller (Do you favor a system of barriers and sensors to prevent criminals from crossing the border? versus Do you favor a cruel wall that prevents refugees and children from being saved as they run from zombies?).  "The Wall" (seems like trying to evoke a Pink Floyd like depiction of something evil) is not any different than what other moral and responsible nations do elsewhere in the world to protect their citizens, the first duty of any government.

Why did the GOP not fund the wall?

The Chamber of Commerce wing of the Republican Party listens to its agribusiness, construction, hospitality, etc... donors who want  two things:  cheap, non-unionizing, quiet, compliant due to their legal status labor and the pressure of continuing illegal immigration to keep wages and conditions for non-skilled labor cheap and under their control.  

The various wings of the Democratic Party (ethno-chauvanists, administrative social services, etc...) want members, voters and clients for the services they provide via government social service agencies.  

The unholy marriage of labor exploiting big businesses and left wing social activists reminds me of the end of Animal Farm, pigs and farmers together at the table and there was no difference.

8666655_orig.jpg

As I have said before, I think you argue in good faith but honestly how much longer do you think this will continue?  

The Constitution is not a suicide pact, as one side colludes with foreigners to subvert the law and sovereignty of the nation for their own political advantage the other side will eventually realize they are not working with a partner in a real democracy ruled by law. 

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I’m wondering when the next shutdown happens, why doesn’t the President use the Treasury Department to refuse to pay members of Congress? It only seems fair.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, MooseAg03 said:

I’m wondering when the next shutdown happens, why doesn’t the President use the Treasury Department to refuse to pay members of Congress? It only seems fair.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seems like this gets brought up every shut down.  Bottom line - appealing as the idea is, it's unconstitutional.

 

Plus, it lets reps with deep pockets like Pelosi wait out reps with less money, like Dan Crenshaw.

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21 hours ago, Vertigo said:

But basically the wall will not stop illegal activity. To think so is very naive.

No one thinks that. No lock is unpickable, but you sure as hell want one on your door.

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If walls don't work, how comes is it that so many liberals live in gated communities or in homes with large fences and walls?

Edited by TreeA10
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https://townhall.com/columnists/wayneallynroot/2019/01/20/harry-reid-exposes-greatest-liberal-scam-of-alltime-n2539256

Harry Reid Exposes Greatest Liberal Scam of All-Time

Wayne Allyn Root
5-6 minutes

What's in the news day and night? The wall.

It's all anyone talks about or thinks about or debates. Have you heard? The U.S. government is partially shut down over the wall.

But it's all a massive liberal scam. A Ponzi scheme. Pure fraud. Bernie Madoff couldn't come up with a better scam.

Because the same liberal politicians and donors who scream about the "racism" and "immorality" and "ineffectiveness" of a wall all live behind walls.

President Trump needs to buy TV infomercial time and run a 30-minute TV show in a Ross Perot fashion -- featuring aerial views of the mansions and estates of liberals, protected by walls, gates, and armed guards. You know, the exact same protections they don't want you and me or our children to have.

Exhibit A is Harry Reid, the Democratic former Senate Majority Leader from my home state of Nevada.

Please ignore the advertising slogan "What happens in Las Vegas stays in Las Vegas." It's not true. Las Vegas is the crossroads of America. What happens here is happening everywhere. And I've uncovered the biggest liberal scam in America -- going on right here in Las Vegas.

It revolves around my home community in Henderson. I live in the exclusive Anthem Country Club. There are about 1,500 beautiful homes behind the gates of Anthem. Together, these homes are worth around $1 billion -- in just one country club in one Las Vegas suburb.

What's the amazing appeal of Anthem Country Club? It's got a big beautiful wall around it. And thick iron gates in front are protected by armed guards. The result? There is virtually no crime inside walled, gated, armed Anthem.

Life is good behind the gates of Anthem.

In the rest of Las Vegas ... not so much. In the rest of Vegas ... lots of crime, gang bangers, drugs, car-jackings, and home invasion robberies. Proving walls and gates and lots of armed guards are a good thing if you want your family to be safe.

But wait. My Anthem community recently added yet another feature to keep our residents safe. Every vehicle entering our gates must show a government-issued photo ID or they will be denied entry.

Guess who's my neighbor, just steps away from my home? Former Sen. Harry Reid. The one and only. He could have chosen anywhere in Nevada or America to retire. But he didn't. He chose the protection of fortress Anthem for his family.

There are many lessons we can learn from studying Anthem Country Club.

Lesson No. 1: If you want your family and children to be safe, BUILD A WALL -- preferably a wall that is also surrounded by armed guards. The Vatican understands this lesson. Every celebrity in Hollywood understands. All the wealthy politicians in Washington, D.C., understand. All the big-shot media executives understand. Bill Gates, Warren Buffett and George Soros all understand. Barbara Streisand, George Clooney, Sean Penn, and Madonna all understand. They are protected by big walls, sturdy gates, and armed guards.

Lesson No. 2: Liberal Democrats are hypocrites. All the liberal bigmouths who denigrate the wall live behind walls and gates. None is a better example than Reid, former chief water carrier and bottle washer of President Barack Obama. Reid spent his entire Senate career fighting viciously against a wall. Reid argued walls were terrible and unnecessary things.

So, why did Harry choose Anthem? Because he loves his family. That's why we all want a wall at America's southern border. To protect our country and our children from bad people, drugs, disease, and violent crime. Welcome to the neighborhood, Harry. Can I bring a cake by?

7f9384f3-ccf7-4b0a-b9cc-f7e5eb29d4c8.png

Lesson No. 3: Liberals lie about everything. Liberals don't just use walls to separate themselves from the very poor and illegal alien voters they count on to elect them. They use limos and private jets and send their children to lily-white private schools where they'll never be around gangbangers or illegal aliens or Muslim refugees or disease.

Lesson No. 4: Guns must not be as bad as liberals claim. Because liberals may argue against gun ownership, but at the same time, they have armed guards protect them.

Lesson No. 5: The argument against voter identification is a total scam. How do all those gardeners, maids and pool cleaners drive through the gates of Anthem every day? The answer: They all already have a government-issued photo ID. So I guess it's a lie when liberal politicians claim that poor people and minorities don't have a photo ID or that it's too difficult for them to get or that it's "racist" to ask them for it.

Voter ID is an issue because liberals want election fraud. They can't win without it. They want illegals to be able to vote by the millions for Democrats.

Folks, we're being scammed. But not just any scam. This is the greatest scam of all time. Anthem, my beautiful, safe community, is the proof. What happens here in the suburbs of Vegas, is happening everywhere.

My advice? BUILD THE WALL.

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12 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

How’d that wall work out for Osama?

So far so good.  Michelle wouldn't feel safe without one so they built one before moving in.

D2F0F2FC-AB5A-4EDA-8B82-A91DC6F2B72F.jpeg.73ab2bd01a82bccb00d5ed501c473425.jpeg

 

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So far so good.  Michelle wouldn't feel safe without one so they built one before moving in.
D2F0F2FC-AB5A-4EDA-8B82-A91DC6F2B72F.jpeg.73ab2bd01a82bccb00d5ed501c473425.jpeg
 


I did not say Obama. I said Osama. As in bin Laden.

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2 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

I did not say Obama. I said Osama. As in bin Laden.

 

Ah, so terrorists and leftists agree on the importance of walls.  Interesting.  

And if illegal crossers have the training and resources of DEVGRU, then I guess we better just give up now.  

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The vast majority of illegals (roughly 2/3) arrive via legal means and then overstay their visa.

How does a wall keep this from happening? 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

The vast majority of illegals (roughly 2/3) arrive via legal means and then overstay their visa.

How does a wall keep this from happening? 

 

 

Reducing illegal immigration by 33% would be a pretty massive improvement. 

 

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The vast majority of illegals (roughly 2/3) arrive via legal means and then overstay their visa.

How does a wall keep this from happening? 

 

 

Source?

 

Nevermind, it's 42%. So less than half. Looks like the wall is a solid part of solving the problem.

 

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/aug/24/kevin-mccarthy/mostly-true-visa-overstays-account-half-all-people/

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Just another example of why you want more security (physical and manpower) at the border(s):

https://www.breitbart.com/border/2019/01/29/previously-deported-rapist-child-molester-apprehended-near-texas-border/

 

Life is utterly remorseless; defend & protect what is yours or see it taken & destroyed by others.

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On 1/28/2019 at 7:18 PM, Lord Ratner said:

Source?

 

Nevermind, it's 42%. So less than half. Looks like the wall is a solid part of solving the problem.

 

https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/aug/24/kevin-mccarthy/mostly-true-visa-overstays-account-half-all-people/

Read it again.

"It also projected that overstays made up about two-thirds of the total number of people who became unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. that year."

 

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Read it again.
"It also projected that overstays made up about two-thirds of the total number of people who became unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. that year."
 
Saw that. Since we don't have to rebuild the wall every year, monthly changes in border crossing won't be an issue.

But this has nothing to do with efficacy or numbers. You're not stupid, you know a wall would work, just like you know a whole slew of solutions would work. You don't want illegal immigration curbed, plain and simple.

It's not like it makes you unique. Best as I can tell from actual conversations with liberal friends (not internet), it's a largely unfocused sense of empathy and Western guilt that fuels the response we see today. "I don't know what I'm for, I just know I'm not for that [the wall, deportations, eVerify, national guard on the border, etc]."

Ultimately I blame conservatives. They've allowed an alternate history to propagate that paints the triumphs of the post-enlightenment West as solely the result of exploiting other cultures and societies. Howard Zimm has the most egregious example of this in his book.

Until conservatives can unify and explain how capitalism, cultural assimilation, individualism, free speech, the second amendment, low minimum wages, blah blah blah, actually benefit the very people that liberals seek to protect, there will be no progress.
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1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

Saw that. Since we don't have to rebuild the wall every year, monthly changes in border crossing won't be an issue.

But this has nothing to do with efficacy or numbers. You're not stupid, you know a wall would work, just like you know a whole slew of solutions would work. You don't want illegal immigration curbed, plain and simple.

It's not like it makes you unique. Best as I can tell from actual conversations with liberal friends (not internet), it's a largely unfocused sense of empathy and Western guilt that fuels the response we see today. "I don't know what I'm for, I just know I'm not for that [the wall, deportations, eVerify, national guard on the border, etc]."

Ultimately I blame conservatives. They've allowed an alternate history to propagate that paints the triumphs of the post-enlightenment West as solely the result of exploiting other cultures and societies. Howard Zimm has the most egregious example of this in his book.

Until conservatives can unify and explain how capitalism, cultural assimilation, individualism, free speech, the second amendment, low minimum wages, blah blah blah, actually benefit the very people that liberals seek to protect, there will be no progress.

Shacked it.  Let us also not forget that some people are against Trump’s ideas because they are fueled by their desire for him to fail.  Look at Black Caucasus members like Lewis and Sheila Jackson Lee, they flat out admitted they didn’t vote for Trump’s criminal justice reform because they didn’t want him to succeed, even though the left has been asking for this for decades. 

 

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On 1/30/2019 at 11:27 AM, Lord Ratner said:

You don't want illegal immigration curbed, plain and simple.
 

Wrong.

I want -real- solutions (i.e. fixing the immigration process and rules), not a monument. While a wall may put a minuscule dent, it certainly won't stop all, or even most, illegal entries. 

Why not attack the cause, the why, of illegal immigration rather than slapping on a band-aid?

 

Edited by Vertigo
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Wrong.

I want -real- solutions (i.e. fixing the immigration process and rules), not a monument. While a wall may put a minuscule dent, it certainly won't stop all, or even most, illegal entries. 

Why not attack the cause, the why, of illegal immigration rather than slapping on a band-aid?

 
Specifics please. Numbers, goals, etc.

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