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The Next President is...


disgruntledemployee

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12 minutes ago, slackline said:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/04/politics/trump-nominee-pentagon-martial-law/index.html

 

Scott O'Grady didn't come off as a tinfoil-hat kinda guy when I met him, but this is sad.

He's coaching a narrative. This is about broad power manipulation. All of the last 3 Presidents began their first term with narratives that denigrated their legitimacy. Obama had birthers, Trump had Russia conspiracy theorist, and now Biden will have vote manipulation. This is the new washington power play to keep your ideaology offensive even when you aren't in power. 

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8 hours ago, pcola said:


This statement is shocking. And I’m not surprised that I haven’t seen it reported once in any of the liberal “news” coverage of that interview this morning. What a joke.


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We can have Trump saying crazy shit for years...but now every word is gospel.  K.

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21 hours ago, Sim said:

 

Batteries are running out....

Look at how much they love each other now, versus the debates. Harris is looking at him like he's the man of her dreams. Probably the same look she gave Willie Brown

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23 hours ago, pcola said:


This statement is shocking. And I’m not surprised that I haven’t seen it reported once in any of the liberal “news” coverage of that interview this morning. What a joke.


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I took that to mean that Kamala would have to come up with a reason to quit, just like he would have under Obama.

 

But as usual, the man is incapable of putting a clear thought together. After 4 years of Trump doing the same thing, we should be used to it.

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We can have Trump saying crazy shit for years...but now every word is gospel.  K.

That’s exactly my point. Media bias plain and clear. 4 years of everything Trump said being dissected, misrepresented, “fact checked”, dramatized, then proclaimed as evil from the mountain top of literally every single liberal media outlet in existence. And now every crazy ass statement from Biden and it’s “nothing to see here, moving along, oh isn’t he just wonderful!” The current state of our so-called news reporting is laughable at best, but probably more appropriately labeled shameful.


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1 hour ago, pcola said:


That’s exactly my point. Media bias plain and clear. 4 years of everything Trump said being dissected, misrepresented, “fact checked”, dramatized, then proclaimed as evil from the mountain top of literally every single liberal media outlet in existence. And now every crazy ass statement from Biden and it’s “nothing to see here, moving along, oh isn’t he just wonderful!” The current state of our so-called news reporting is laughable at best, but probably more appropriately labeled shameful.


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Didn't NY Times say they were going to be just as scrutinizing on Biden? Oh I'm sure they'll scrutinize the next quirky thing Joe says. 

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Didn't NY Times say they were going to be just as scrutinizing on Biden? Oh I'm sure they'll scrutinize the next quirky thing Joe says. 

Isn’t there a clear difference between quirky, intentionally meant to not be taken seriously vs the things Trump has said while being 100% serious? You guys aren’t being honest with yourselves if you claim this is proof of some kind of bogus double standard.

We all know that many news sources have a left leaning bias. Saying that this is an example of that is silly, and hurts what would be credible complaints going forward. It will all turn to noise if you try to hold up everything he says with an actual sense of humor as “oh, see, he’s losing his mental capacity...” or “oh, see, the media is in love with him and was super mean to Trump!”

Trump’s craziness was, and there are thousands of tweets out there to back this up, put out there with a straight face.

What am I reading wrong here?


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That’s exactly my point. Media bias plain and clear. 4 years of everything Trump said being dissected, misrepresented, “fact checked”, dramatized, then proclaimed as evil from the mountain top of literally every single liberal media outlet in existence. And now every crazy ass statement from Biden and it’s “nothing to see here, moving along, oh isn’t he just wonderful!” The current state of our so-called news reporting is laughable at best, but probably more appropriately labeled shameful.


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Why is it so hard for Trump fans to admit that the man lied constantly? The man lied non-stop. If that word is too strong for you, he stretched the “facts” or presented “alternate facts” constantly.

Obama got that treatment from Fox News. Bush avoided it mostly because it wasn’t really happening yet.

Not an individual attack on pcola, but in general, the right needs to stop with the crocodile tears about just how unfairly Trump was treated. He invited it, relished it even. Played to his base like a charm. Apparently there are people on here eating it up still...


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Your own stated double standard that Trump was 100% serious at all times.

You gotta let it go man... I guess every word that’s ever come out of your mouth has never contained hyperbole to get your point across.

You’re right, he probably wasn’t serious 100% of the time. Got me...


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Disagree with the “intentionally meant to not be taken seriously“ assessment. I didn’t see it that way at all. Pretty sure he wasn’t intending to joke. But you can and will believe whatever you want. Regardless my point stands. No way Trump gets a pass on a statement like that. Regardless of his clear intent.


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13 hours ago, pcola said:


That’s exactly my point. Media bias plain and clear. 4 years of everything Trump said being dissected, misrepresented, “fact checked”, dramatized, then proclaimed as evil from the mountain top of literally every single liberal media outlet in existence. And now every crazy ass statement from Biden and it’s “nothing to see here, moving along, oh isn’t he just wonderful!” The current state of our so-called news reporting is laughable at best, but probably more appropriately labeled shameful.


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That's fair

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7 hours ago, slackline said:


Isn’t there a clear difference between quirky, intentionally meant to not be taken seriously vs the things Trump has said while being 100% serious? You guys aren’t being honest with yourselves if you claim this is proof of some kind of bogus double standard.

We all know that many news sources have a left leaning bias. Saying that this is an example of that is silly, and hurts what would be credible complaints going forward. It will all turn to noise if you try to hold up everything he says with an actual sense of humor as “oh, see, he’s losing his mental capacity...” or “oh, see, the media is in love with him and was super mean to Trump!”

Trump’s craziness was, and there are thousands of tweets out there to back this up, put out there with a straight face.

What am I reading wrong here?


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No. There isn't. Literally hundreds of things Trump said we're clearly not meant to be taken literally but the Media flared on them. If you can recognize there is no difference in this remark and hundreds of Trump's, you are either a.) Not being honest or b.) Incapable of seeing past your bias. In either case you need to do some self reflection. 

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7 hours ago, slackline said:


Why is it so hard for Trump fans to admit that the man lied constantly? The man lied non-stop. If that word is too strong for you, he stretched the “facts” or presented “alternate facts” constantly.

Obama got that treatment from Fox News. Bush avoided it mostly because it wasn’t really happening yet.

Not an individual attack on pcola, but in general, the right needs to stop with the crocodile tears about just how unfairly Trump was treated. He invited it, relished it even. Played to his base like a charm. Apparently there are people on here eating it up still...


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 In not a Trump fan. In fact I'm actually excited about something's Biden might bring. But I disdain our hipocripocrasy in society. It 1.) Serves to further divide our country and 2.) Doesn't hold our officials accountable by redirecting blame on the opposite party. 

All politicians lie.  Trump was actually extraordinarily honest to the extent that he actually promoted policy that he campaigned on, something we don't usually see from politicians. Biden came from an administration that lied constantly about some extraordinarily important things. Using your own doctor, how the war in Iraq/Syria was going, the extent to which the US used drone strikes as a foreign policy tool, etc...

Well all have a duty to try and wake up to our bias. 

 

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7 hours ago, FLEA said:
 In not a Trump fan. In fact I'm actually excited about something's Biden might bring. But I disdain our hipocripocrasy in society. It 1.) Serves to further divide our country and 2.) Doesn't hold our officials accountable by redirecting blame on the opposite party. 
All politicians lie.  Trump was actually extraordinarily honest to the extent that he actually promoted policy that he campaigned on, something we don't usually see from politicians. Biden came from an administration that lied constantly about some extraordinarily important things. Using your own doctor, how the war in Iraq/Syria was going, the extent to which the US used drone strikes as a foreign policy tool, etc...
Well all have a duty to try and wake up to our bias. 
 


That’s fair. I completely agree that the Obama admin lied about the things you’re accusing them of. What else? You claim I need self-reflection? Here’s some reflection on promises kept vs not. Not an apples to apples comparison on lies, but the best I could do to attempt to show something that wouldn’t be claimed as liberal media.
https://guides.libs.uga.edu/factchecknews - Showing it is a non-partisan fact-checker

Obamameter- https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/?ruling=true

Trump-o-meter- https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/?ruling=true

By sheer volume alone, Obama broke 5x more promises, but he also fulfilled 10x more and had some kind of compromise on 7x more promises than Trump. Using this scale you could say he lied about way more I guess, so I’ll give you that. You’d also have to recognize that he accomplished way more if we’re using this as any kind of metric. This hurts to see for me because I was not a fan of Obama either.

James P. Pfiffner, VN vet, military scholar, solid, respectable dude and expert in this field wrote a paper talking about this (https://pfiffner.gmu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Pfiffner-The-Lies-of-Donald-Trump-A-Taxonomy.pdf) In it he says something we all agree on, all presidents lie. He also goes on to show that Trump does it more than any previous president, and not just in quantity, but the level of serious topics about which he lies is more egregious than past presidents. This isn’t me (someone who detests democrats as much as, maybe more than republicans) just trying to hide my bias against Trump, this is me attacking what people on the right continue to excuse, apologize for and rationalize as Trump’s lies. People say the media is “mean” and “unfair” to Trump. I’ll agree that they hold his feet to the fire more, and blow things out of context more than they have for previous presidents, but only after Trump proved he was willing to have a very, very loose relationship with the truth. He started lying, name calling and straight-up making bogus statements before he even announced his candidacy. Only then did the media start to treat him like a hostile witness.

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/politics/2020/08/28/why-do-fact-checkers-find-more-false-statements-from-trump-than-biden/42343935/ (media bias, right of center https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/columbus-dispatch/ ) Occam’s razor says the simplest explanation is often the right explanation. Trump simply lies way more than most other presidents. (edited to remove some hyperbole)


Completely agree with you that all politicians lie, it’s like they have a disease or something. Hence why I said our country needs a reset on all politicians from all parties. Set up some new rules, and hold them accountable.

TLDR/ People claiming Trump was on the same level as any president before him are hiding under a rock from the mountains of evidence demonstrating otherwise. All politicians lie, Trump just does it on a scale that is simply way more than most other politicians. His lies hurt not only our country on the world stage, but they hurt democracy as well.


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Edited by slackline
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I guess it’s just pointless to compare which president lied more. What’s probably more useful is actually calling out specific lies or patterns. I think the impact of some of the lies the last few years have been worse than usual when it comes to the future of America

For example, Trump’s immediate “Fake News” response to any news that he didn’t like has done more to drive a wedge between this country than any other president in recent history. No one trusts anybody anymore. There’s some potential good in being skeptical of information, sure, but it’s not panning out that way. Now a higher than ever number of people enjoy calling themselves anti-vaxxers or conspiracy theorists. Dumbasses have a platform where they can get to an echo chamber (the Internet), which does much more harm than good.

Also his recent inane rants on how he “won” the election are setting up a large portion of the country to not believe in democracy. Combining these with the Facebook propaganda machine are mobilizing a bunch of idiots, without any real evidence. Over the last month, I’ve seen multiple full militias (10-20 people) out eating with their guns to... intimidate the liberals? I’ve never seen that before. This is how home grown extremism/authoritarianism starts: with a healthy amount of disinformation and distrust of your fellow countrymen.

You guys are gonna come back and say that the dems unfairly discredited the president the same way before his term, but that’s simply not true. I urge you to re-read (Or more than likely, read the first time, as I’m almost certain you got all your info from the news) the mueller report, specifically when it comes to “Individual-1.” I’m predicting Trump will pardon himself and his family before he’s gone, but this is another example of disinformation gone awry.

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Aaaaand now Rudy has covid. Not gonna lie I'm kind of bummed because him being sidelined greatly reduces the chance that trump will fulfill my prediction and fire him before this is all over. 
 

It does make you wonder though.. how many other people did Rudy infect as he bounced around the country flagrantly disregarding covid guidelines.  Maybe this will finally be the moment where die hard right wingers realize the Trump/Giuliani clown show is detrimental to their own side. It's okay guys, some people are just slow to catch on...
 

It only took them trying to undermine our entire election system while simultaneously infecting state and local republicans with a deadly disease through pure negligence. 

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38 minutes ago, Pooter said:

Aaaaand now Rudy has covid. Not gonna lie I'm kind of bummed because him being sidelined greatly reduces the chance that trump will fulfill my prediction and fire him before this is all over. 
 

It does make you wonder though.. how many other people did Rudy infect as he bounced around the country flagrantly disregarding covid guidelines.  Maybe this will finally be the moment where die hard right wingers realize the Trump/Giuliani clown show is detrimental to their own side. It's okay guys, some people are just slow to catch on...
 

It only took them trying to undermine our entire election system while simultaneously infecting state and local republicans with a deadly disease through pure negligence. 

Unfortunately, I don't think there's ever a point when the die hard right wingers will realize that.  Makes it tough for conservatives who actually want to move the ball forward.

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2 hours ago, pawnman said:

Unfortunately, I don't think there's ever a point when the die hard right wingers will realize that.  Makes it tough for conservatives who actually want to move the ball forward.

The fringe left works the same way, but the difference is that their mainstream doesn't allow the fringe ideas to dominate the conversation. The mainstream left has certainly embraced that side of the party, with Sanders, AOC, Warren et al. If Trump had won this general election though, no chance you'd see 75% of the house Democrats refusing to acknowledge it, or discussions about sending a pro-Dem slate of electors forward anyway, etc. Embracing that level of kookiness would destroy the future prospects of the party, which are already not looking bright for the Dems.

As you said, they'd like to keep moving the ball, without being hijacked by the extreme crazies in the party. I'm shocked that the GOP is allowing it to happen. What on earth for? They're no longer beholden to Trump, they're likely to keep the senate, just jettison your dead orange weight and start thinking pragmatically about 2022 midterms and beyond. 

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Trump’s potential 2024 run will keep a lot of conservatives in his court. It also has the potential to split the party (a few Republicans are finally getting sick of his shit) and give four more years to Dems. 

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