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What happened in Charlottesville? Isn’t that where the act of violence was one dude driving his car through the crowds?

Correct me if I’m wrong. I don’t remember the specifics. I remember there were far right groups not mainstream republicans. That’s what we are saying. The left supports what is going on in the riots since Mr Floyd’s death. The right doesn’t support what happened in Charlottesville nor does our current president.

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Complete and utter malarkey. ONE mainstream network went after Obama, Foxnews, some of it unwarranted Political tripe, some of it valid.  Meanwhile ALL of the remaining mainstream networks suppor

Want to slash American carbon?  Build nuclear power plants.  

When MSNBC announced Trump's win in Iowa, there was an audible grunt from Rachel Madow. By the sound of it, she apparently sat on her sack wrong. Happens to the best of us.

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15 minutes ago, Guardian said:

What happened in Charlottesville? Isn’t that where the act of violence was one dude driving his car through the crowds?

Correct me if I’m wrong. I don’t remember the specifics. I remember there were far right groups not mainstream republicans. That’s what we are saying. The left supports what is going on in the riots since Mr Floyd’s death. The right doesn’t support what happened in Charlottesville nor does our current president.

I think that’s where you’re confused. Many on the left have lost support for the protests, especially after they have devolved to riots. I know most of the people I’ve talked to feel this way.

Youre probably right that more dems would say they support protests. I don’t think almost any of them support burning stuff down.

BLM started with reasonable intentions. But it has been brigaded into a shell of itself.

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51 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Yes. That’s the point. Republicans and democrats alike will accept the results of this election if Biden legitimately wins.

That’s a republican view

To be clear, you're saying if the lawsuits are dismissed for lack of standing, cause, non-procedural issues, etc., then it's still a legitimate election for Biden? I would suggest that some people on this board, and a ton in my FB feed, who wear that label disagree with that assessment.  Where is your line for the judiciaries hand in deciding the election, especially since the Courts have been very reluctant so far to get very involved?

1 hour ago, FLEA said:

Fantastic read, thanks for sharing.

I also happened to come across this, about some GI's taking extreme voter corruption head on.  Book just came out about it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)

It's been made apparent that my time on here isn't as appreciated by my family as it is by me.  Additionally, my daughter was directly exposed to COVID..so I'm going to hunker down, lurk, and take care of what's important. Thank you all for the conversation and different opinions.

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I’m saying that if the courts say it’s legitimate or even if they don’t and a recount or adjustment happens and Biden still wins that he then becomes our president. Whether we like it our not.

The proper system for dealing with the red flags is the court not the press or social media. Calls for violence, labels, or just plain hate coming back from the left because of it shows what they have on the inside. I’ll leave it at that.

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14 hours ago, pcola said:

I’m genuinely curious to hear from a few pro-Biden/never-Trumpers just exactly what do you foresee that will improve in your life under a Biden presidency. Will your job security/satisfaction increase? Your wealth or family’s security? Your satisfaction with your identity as an American? I for one have a negative outlook on all of those areas. Curious to hear other perspectives.
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Pretty much nothing will change for my day to day life under Biden. I don't believe that any president has much of an impact on anyone's daily life at a policy level. But I won't have to do daily mental gymnastics to justify the stream of consciousness Twitter rantings of an egotistical asshat so there's that. 

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10 hours ago, Negatory said:

4) One of the biggest ones is probably income inequality. Trickle down economics does not work. I don’t care how many times you’ve been spoon fed that line. Productivity over the last 50 years has gone up - wages have stayed the same (inflation). The system is rigged against America’s youth whether you look at college that costs 70k a year (look up the costs), a dwindling job market (it’s been like this pre-Covid) that was propped up by min wage gig economy jobs, or the disastrous housing crisis. I’m glad I’m in the military, as it solved a lot of these problems, but is the American dream still alive as much as everyone says it is? Policies to increase min wage, provide healthcare, reduce student loans, support unions/workers rights - these will benefit the whole of America. It’s hard to vote for a “billionaire” who literally paid less than I did in tax for multiple years. And before you say he was just playing by the rules, if he cared about the system, he would make a concerted effort to fix the glitches.

...

6) The federal reserve has been used for quantitative easing in a dangerous precedent to prop up the stock market. The US government basically propped up $3T of stocks THIS YEAR and then the president took credit for the economy. The economy is a sham and the fed balance sheet should stop being manipulated. We’re using the coffers of our children for republican talking points.

...

It'd be great if everyone could make more money, but honestly, the only thing raising minimum wage does is push current workers (i.e. me) closer to it. It's nice to make a high(er) multiple of the minimum wage - it's dangerous the lower that multiple becomes. Two other things are overlooked with this argument. The first is that the true minimum wage is $0/hr - no matter what anyone says. The second is that the value of someone's hour of labor is not a fixed amount, and in some cases it's actually negative. Minimum wage seems like a "quick fix" because it appears to immediately get you to the desired end-state, but neither of those facts is side-stepped by it, but it sure does play well with a sector of the working class. Not to mention employers simply adapt the number of employees or the number of hours they work. These things always have unavoidable "side-effects."

The other major factor (or multiple factors) in reference to wages is deflation. We're all worried about inflation, but ask yourself why the Fed is struggling so hard to get it up (sts). It's because there are MAJOR deflationary forces in operation right now. One is technology - which is hugely deflationary (https://www.zdnet.com/article/unstoppable-tech-driven-deflation-will-be-the-next-economic-challenge/). The second is the aging demographic make-up of our society and the concordant reality that people achieve peak spending at an approximate age of 46, at which time it begins decreasing. The higher the average age of an American becomes, the further from that magic number (46) we'll get, and the harder deflation will bite.

In reference to student loans, the moral hazard is extreme (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard). Loaning money is a risky proposition, but at the same time, making good loans is a money-making opportunity. So my question is 'why doesn't the university system back the loans themselves' since they stand to profit from it? Could it be because they don't believe in their own product? The question immediately answers itself. Good loans make money and net positive return. It's because all of the risk has been externalized to the US taxpayer courtesy of the US government. With cost and risk externalized, what incentive is there to not admitting literally everyone? The only long-term solution to this problem is to fully remove the government from the student loan business and allow universities to provide loans to their most promising candidates. As a side-benefit, the positive effect on "X-studies" degrees would be almost instant. The current system is unsustainable. What's in a name? That which we call communism, by any other name would smell just as sour.

That said, I do agree that student loan debt is a problem, but if we're going to agree to waive a magic wand and "forgive" debt, then we absolutely do need to address restitution for those guys that are like him: 

To address the Fed, I agree wholeheartedly. I would only add that we've been overspending for a much longer time than Trump has been in office. Conventional wisdom holds that the Obama years were prosperous, but would you call running up massive credit card debt prosperity when you're unable to pay your bills?

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10 hours ago, M2 said:

My father got a vote-by-mail letter in Florida.

Problem is, he passed away over 14 years ago...

Don't tell me there's nothing wrong with the system!

What is a vote-by-mail letter? Something reminding him to vote?

Unless it's a ballot, what the hell does it matter?

 

If your deceased father was mailed a ballot and voted, you can find evidence of that here:

https://www.dos.myflorida.com/elections/for-voters/check-your-voter-status-and-polling-place/ballot-information-and-status-lookup/

 

If you return negative results, this argument is non-existent. 

 

"Whether you call it Vote by Mail or Absentee Voting, in Florida the election system is Safe and Secure, Tried and True."

                                                                                                                --Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States

 

 

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11 hours ago, Alpharatz said:

I worked the election processing ballots.... keeping an eye on a voting machine..making sure that initials were in the right spot, paper jams got cleared... In a high school gym full of tables, workers, machines etc.  Nine hour shift which was a bit sporting for the older folks..but they pressed on..  NOW, the highest levels of  the Republican party (starting with Donald Trump) and many party members are all but accusing me and co-workers of fraud, mis-handling paperwork, forgery and in general just being a herd of mopes. BTW..we had an official election observer..spent most of his time perched on a chair screwing with his phone... Some locations had armed demonstrators banging on windows.  I am truly beginning to wonder about people who took an oath to "support and defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and Domestic"  Have I become a Domestic Enemy?  Do I need to be defended against?  Any other potential Domestic Enemies you fighting men need to deal with?

Unless you did this in Philly, Detroit, Atlanta or Milwaukee... none of the serious claims involve you.

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Pretty much nothing will change for my day to day life under Biden. I don't believe that any president has much of an impact on anyone's daily life at a policy level. But I won't have to do daily mental gymnastics to justify the stream of consciousness Twitter rantings of an egotistical asshat so there's that. 

As a military member Trump had a positive effect on my life

I don’t know if you will find to many business owners that don’t think Trump had a positive impact on their businesses.

Trump had a positive effect on minorities and the jobless with his business friendly push for the government.
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24 minutes ago, Guardian said:


As a military member Trump had a positive effect on my life

I don’t know if you will find to many business owners that don’t think Trump had a positive impact on their businesses.

Trump had a positive effect on minorities and the jobless with his business friendly push for the government.

As a military member Trump has caused me to greatly doubt the ability of the CinC to lead the nation in a time of crisis.  That has been an overall negative effect on my life.

My wife is a small business owner: no effect one way or another....local politics and issues have much more impact than who is in the WH.

I suspect that you won't find many minorities and/or jobless who are proud to have DJT in the WH.

A question I've posed in this forum before and gotten little response from DJT devotees: Would you want him as your Wg/CC or Sq/CC?  I recognize that a political leader is a different beast than a military leader, but I simply can't wrap my mind around how someone would follow what DJT is putting out there.

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Interesting question. On somethings yes, break through the status quo and the norm way the Air Force or at least the base does things.

On other things my immediate thought and reaction is no because he hasn’t had the experience in the Air Force our current leaders have. But then I laugh to myself because a lot of our current leaders are ineffective and the fact that the Don stepped into a job that most people have a lot of different and specific poly sci back ground and did it.but not only did he do it, he set our country through 4 of the most prosperous years in its history in many categories. And that burns a lot of people and the media. But that doesn’t make it any less true.

So yeah, I’m game. Let’s see how it works. Funny thing is my vote doesn’t count in the military. It does in the country.

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2 hours ago, ViperMan said:

It'd be great if everyone could make more money, but honestly, the only thing raising minimum wage does is push current workers (i.e. me) closer to it. It's nice to make a high(er) multiple of the minimum wage - it's dangerous the lower that multiple becomes. Two other things are overlooked with this argument. The first is that the true minimum wage is $0/hr - no matter what anyone says. The second is that the value of someone's hour of labor is not a fixed amount, and in some cases it's actually negative. Minimum wage seems like a "quick fix" because it appears to immediately get you to the desired end-state, but neither of those facts is side-stepped by it, but it sure does play well with a sector of the working class. Not to mention employers simply adapt the number of employees or the number of hours they work. These things always have unavoidable "side-effects."

There are economics both for and against the minimum wage. I mean, really, there are for almost every argument:

https://minimum-wage.procon.org

The unions pay for one study, the companies pay for the other. There is probably some amount of truth to both sides, but I firmly disagree that in America the minimum wage should ever be "$0/hr." If you can't pay your employees a living wage, you should lose your rights to be an employer.

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3 minutes ago, Negatory said:

There are economics both for and against the minimum wage. I mean, really, there are for almost every argument:

https://minimum-wage.procon.org

The unions pay for one study, the companies pay for the other. There is probably some amount of truth to both sides, but I firmly disagree that in America the minimum wage should ever be "$0/hr." If you can't pay your employees a living wage, you should lose your rights to be an employer.

My point wasn't that $0/hr was a just minimum wage for actual work. My point was that the unintended consequence of increasing the minimum wage reduces the employment level, thereby leading to layoffs, which in turn, pays $0/hr. You can't employ someone for $15/hr when the value they produce is only worth $10/hr. No website will ever convince me that math is wrong.

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There are economics both for and against the minimum wage. I mean, really, there are for almost every argument:
https://minimum-wage.procon.org
The unions pay for one study, the companies pay for the other. There is probably some amount of truth to both sides, but I firmly disagree that in America the minimum wage should ever be "$0/hr." If you can't pay your employees a living wage, you should lose your rights to be an employer.


What about the worker that agrees to do a job for less than a “living wage” as you put it? What should be done to them since it is a consensual agreement between business owner and employee?

Do you think he meant literally the minimum wage should be $0 or do you think he had another meaning?
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One of over 11,000 affidavit’s legal team says they have. One down 10,999 to go assuming more don’t come forward. And if they are all false, so be it. Each should be taken on its own merit. Not as a cause.
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13 minutes ago, Guardian said:

 


What about the worker that agrees to do a job for less than a “living wage” as you put it? What should be done to them since it is a consensual agreement between business owner and employee?

Do you think he meant literally the minimum wage should be $0 or do you think he had another meaning?

 

I missed the meaning. Got it.

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1 hour ago, ViperMan said:

My point wasn't that $0/hr was a just minimum wage for actual work. My point was that the unintended consequence of increasing the minimum wage reduces the employment level, thereby leading to layoffs, which in turn, pays $0/hr. You can't employ someone for $15/hr when the value they produce is only worth $10/hr. No website will ever convince me that math is wrong.

What're your thoughts on the monopsony theory of minimum wage for low skill labor? Would you consider a minimum wage increase law that self destructs if employment falls below 3% of what it was before law was passed? I fleshed this argument out in detail earlier if you do a search for "monopsony"

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