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Complete and utter malarkey. ONE mainstream network went after Obama, Foxnews, some of it unwarranted Political tripe, some of it valid.  Meanwhile ALL of the remaining mainstream networks suppor

Want to slash American carbon?  Build nuclear power plants.  

When MSNBC announced Trump's win in Iowa, there was an audible grunt from Rachel Madow. By the sound of it, she apparently sat on her sack wrong. Happens to the best of us.

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7 hours ago, pcola said:

I’m genuinely curious to hear from a few pro-Biden/never-Trumpers just exactly what do you foresee that will improve in your life under a Biden presidency. Will your job security/satisfaction increase? Your wealth or family’s security? Your satisfaction with your identity as an American?  Curious to hear other perspectives.

For me at an immediate level, absolutely immeasurably yes on the first two.  I'm an ATC, federal employee.  Being reclassified as a political appointee and having my due process rights waived was not something I was happy about, because I'm not an appointee, and that was just within the last couple weeks.  Let's also not forget the two and a half months I went without a paycheck, over the holidays no less, for absolutely nothing.  It's not the first shutdown I've been through, it certainly won't be the last (guessing we have one coming in a month or so), but it was the longest and the most obscene.  And the anti-labor executive orders...don't think I even need to explain those, how detrimental they'd be.  I'm very active in our union, it's the proper avenue for us to improve and address the workplace.   I think we have a good mix where it's optional to be in the union in the first place, you only pay dues if you're in, and we can't strike so the legally-mandated communication is different.  I could go on if needed but I think I made my point.  Also I was very concerned for the future of my profession, our wage, and my leave time...lots of talk of big changes for those in a second term.  And our labor contract expires two years into it.

For the satisfaction of identity as an American...well, I'd like to be able to travel the world again, and it's somewhat abhorrent that we still can't go to Canada or any of Europe because of the President's erratic-at-best, or even lack of plan for COVID.  Our response and stats do all the talking here.  You can say what you want on political leanings or leverage, but the fact that we're shut out from our longest-standing, closest allies should alarm you.

And sadly I trust the career politician to create a functional, cohesive government/cabinet more than the current clown show that only favors loyalty, like it's the fucking Mob or something.

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7 minutes ago, Clayton Bigsby said:

For me at an immediate level, absolutely immeasurably yes on the first two.  I'm an ATC, federal employee.  Being reclassified as a political appointee and having my due process rights waived was not something I was happy about, because I'm not an appointee, and that was just within the last couple weeks.  Let's also not forget the two and a half months I went without a paycheck, over the holidays no less, for absolutely nothing.  It's not the first shutdown I've been through, it certainly won't be the last (guessing we have one coming in a month or so), but it was the longest and the most obscene.  And the anti-labor executive orders...don't think I even need to explain those, how detrimental they'd be.  I'm very active in our union, it's the proper avenue for us to improve and address the workplace.   I think we have a good mix where it's optional to be in the union in the first place, you only pay dues if you're in, and we can't strike so the legally-mandated communication is different.  I could go on if needed but I think I made my point.  Also I was very concerned for the future of my profession, our wage, and my leave time...lots of talk of big changes for those in a second term.  And our labor contract expires two years into it.

For the satisfaction of identity as an American...well, I'd like to be able to travel the world again, and it's somewhat abhorrent that we still can't go to Canada or any of Europe because of the President's erratic-at-best, or even lack of plan for COVID.  Our response and stats do all the talking here.  You can say what you want on political leanings or leverage, but the fact that we're shut out from our longest-standing, closest allies should alarm you.

And sadly I trust the career politician to create a functional, cohesive government/cabinet more than the current clown show that only favors loyalty, like it's the fucking Mob or something.

You're going to be really disappointed if you think Biden is going to get you to Europe. Dude, Germans can't even visit France right now. There's no way they will try to accommodate people outside the Shenzhen in the near future. I've lived and worked here since the start of this shenanigans. Its a fucking disaster right now. 

 

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1 hour ago, Guardian said:


Overly violent trump supporters? Where are they? And if they do exist, what violence have they caused? Is it anything compared to the leftist supported riots this year on any scale?

Sorry but I’m afraid that is a straw man my friend. One set up not on fact but emotion, assumptions, and fear. The fear the leftist have been peddling has come back to them if what you say is true about being afraid of violent trump supporters.

Are there even any violent trump supporters in numbers comparable to the leftists?

So something that doesn’t exist in any scale worth mentioning is made even scarier by using “Overly” in front of it.
 

You missed the point. Both sides arguments are strawmans, and neither is more valid. Be fair. How about this sort of activity?

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/14/855918852/heavily-armed-protesters-gather-again-at-michigans-capitol-denouncing-home-order

Here’s a GAO study showing that far right extremism/terrorism has caused more fatalities since 9/11 than Islam.

https://www.gao.gov/assets/690/683984.pdf

"Of the 85 violent extremist incidents that resulted in death since September 12, 2001, far right wing violent extremist groups were responsible for 62 (73 percent) while radical Islamist violent extremists were responsible for 23 (27 percent). The total number of fatalities is Page 5 GAO-17-300 Countering Violent Extremism about the same for far right wing violent extremists and radical Islamist violent extremists over the approximately 15-year period (106 and 119, respectively). However, 41 percent of the deaths attributable to radical Islamist violent extremists occurred in a single event—an attack at an Orlando, Florida night club in 2016 (see fig. 2). Details on the locations" (pg. 4)

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I’ll look into those. Specifically broadening your argument to cover 25 years isn’t a good thing. You dislike trump right? And antifa and BLM (the group not the ideal) are who I am talking about but the leftists in general. So see if you can find reference in America in the last 4 years to what we are talking about and I will keep it even since George Floyd.

Here are 25 deaths

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acled

And to broaden it out, because I’m sure you will complain about me scoping it,instead of just talking about death let’s talk about money.

How much money has “violent” rightist or republican riots or violence caused. Yes I said violent violence. But I put a bunch of words in between so I should be fine.

Leftist ideals caused 1-2 billion with a B for insurance companies alone. How about the average worker or citizen? How about the business owners? Right wingers owe them any money?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/09/16/riots-following-george-floyds-death-could-cost-up-to-2b/amp/

Again, I will re read what you wrote and look into your links. Thank you.

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Your source doesn’t say, out of those that died, whether they were killed by conservatives or liberals. Your source said only 2/9 of those killed at BLM protests were conservatives. This is another straw man that doesn’t say who’s doing the violence.

“Nine of the people killed during protests were demonstrators taking part in Black Lives Matter protests. Two were conservatives killed after pro-Trump “patriot rallies”. All but one were killed by fellow citizens.“

I mean, if you wanna keep staying straw man, I’ll just point to Kyle up in Kenosha bringing an illegal gun and killing some folks.

 

The point is that both sides are bad. I don’t think you’ll convince me that it’s one sided.

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You missed the point. Both sides arguments are strawmans, and neither is more valid. Be fair. How about this sort of activity?
https://www.npr.org/2020/05/14/855918852/heavily-armed-protesters-gather-again-at-michigans-capitol-denouncing-home-order
Here’s a GAO study showing that far right extremism/terrorism has caused more fatalities since 9/11 than Islam.
https://www.gao.gov/assets/690/683984.pdf
"Of the 85 violent extremist incidents that resulted in death since September 12, 2001, far right wing violent extremist groups were responsible for 62 (73 percent) while radical Islamist violent extremists were responsible for 23 (27 percent). The total number of fatalities is Page 5 GAO-17-300 Countering Violent Extremism about the same for far right wing violent extremists and radical Islamist violent extremists over the approximately 15-year period (106 and 119, respectively). However, 41 percent of the deaths attributable to radical Islamist violent extremists occurred in a single event—an attack at an Orlando, Florida night club in 2016 (see fig. 2). Details on the locations" (pg. 4)

Can you point me to where in the 62 page document you are quoting?

Also I’m not sure of your first link. What are you trying to show. Threats of violence aren’t violence. Protests that were carried out peaceably or caused no death or destruction in itself compared to what we have seen since Mr Floyd died doesn’t even compare.
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Your source doesn’t say, out of those that died, whether they were killed by conservatives or liberals. Your source said only 2/9 of those killed at BLM protests were conservatives. This is another straw man that doesn’t say who’s doing the violence.
“Nine of the people killed during protests were demonstrators taking part in Black Lives Matter protests. Two were conservatives killed after pro-Trump “patriot rallies”. All but one were killed by fellow citizens.“
I mean, if you wanna keep staying straw man, I’ll just point to Kyle up in Kenosha bringing an illegal gun and killing some folks.
 
The point is that both sides are bad. I don’t think you’ll convince me that it’s one sided.

I didn’t say those dying had to be conservatives? I’m saying death is death regardless of who is dying and the riots supported by leftist ideals caused it. Not a straw man.

Is that what you think I’m saying? To be valid it has to be violence carried out from one aide to the other? I’m not. Just said violence period dot.

There were no riots supported or carried out by the right that I’m aware of.

Fine bring him up. He illegally had a gun that he used to defend himself from some crazies that was within his right of self protection.

It’s not completely one sided. But the preponderance of violence surrounds leftist groups and ideals.
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33 minutes ago, Negatory said:

Now it’s on you to cite a source that proves that leftist “terrorism” or acts are worse than that which I just provided.

Since 9/11 probably not much. But the entire Rapoport 3rd wave terrorism idealogy was centered around left extremist. Weather Underground being the most well known US example. 

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5 hours ago, Seadogs said:

https://cdn.donaldjtrump.com/public-files/press_assets/2020-11-09-complaint-as-filed.pdf

You need to take an anger management class. You seem way too angry, especially after your guy "won".

Fantastic read, thanks for posting that. No sarcasm. I love lawyer shit, and I learned more about PA elections than I ever wanted to.  For everyone else here's what that  lawsuit is asking the court to do -
 

Quote

i. An order, declaration, and/or injunction that prohibits the Defendant County Boards of Elections and Defendant Secretary Boockvar from certifying the results of the 2020 General Election in Pennsylvania on a Commonwealth-wide basis;

ii.As an alternative to the first request for relief, an order, declaration, and/or injunction that prohibits Defendants from certifying the results of the General Elections which include the tabulation of absentee and mail-in ballots for which Plaintiffs’ watchers were prevented from observing during the pre-canvass and canvass in the County Election Boards

;iii.In addition to the alternative requests for relief, an order, declaration, and/or injunction that prohibits Defendants from certifying the results of the General Elections which include the tabulation of absentee and mail-in ballots which Defendants improperly permitted to be cured;

iv.A temporary restraining order and preliminary injunction granting the above relief during the pendency of this action;v.Plaintiffs’ reasonable costs and expenses of this action, including attorneys’ fees; and cost; and

vi.All other further relief to which Plaintiffs might be entitled.

TL;DR - stop certifying the election; or certify it except for the votes we couldn't see and don't count the cured votes; and/or give us fees.

It will be interesting to read what the defendants response is.  This is only the claims for plaintiff, which of course frame it in the best way possible for them. Given the previous lawsuit outcomes in PA...I'm doubtful, but also not a lawyer so I don't know shit.

For @Seadogs you know what's not in there?  Thousands of affidavits, claims of thousands coming, or any affidavits actually.  There's use of the words: "poll workers claim;" "one," "two," and "numerous" claims.  But those aren't affidavits.  Besides the campaign there's only 2 other plaintiffs.

Even taking them all together in this lawsuit...not thousands of affidavits, or even claims.  Maybe 20...maybe.  Did you read it before you posted it, or just assumed it supported your claim?  It's a good read. 

I don't think in the end they're going to get thousands of people claiming fraud, they'll get maybe a couple hundred.  Now, is that enough to get the justices to act, then get a recount, and that recount push the needle far enough right in enough counties to change the outcome?  WHO KNOWS?!  It sure is exciting though!  I've got zero problems with the legal process working it's way through.  I'm following Ben Shapiro and the Daily Wire on this one relatively closely.

Question for the Trump supporters though, lets say these lawsuits go nowhere...still massive voter fraud conspiracy/stolen election?  At any point do you accept the results?  What if massive fraud is proved in PA, but nowhere else and Biden still takes the EC?

I also apologize for the name calling, it was outta line.  I voted R every office but Pres, and Attorney General in my state.  The AG is too in bed with Big Tech for my liking.  I don't believe we're that opposed in principal.  I just never got the zealous support for any candidate...ever.

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Yes. That’s the point. Republicans and democrats alike will accept the results of this election if Biden legitimately wins. But there are red flags and a lot of them to be investigated. I don’t care who you are left or right. Part of the greatness of our country is the election system. And if it’s fake or corrupt then that needs to be fixed. Regardless of who wins.

That’s a republican view

Democrat is dispute for 4 years if we lose call the other side treasonous racists that need tracked if they win.

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Okay, last example of a conservative movement gone wrong. How about the totally peaceful “Unite the Right Rally” in Charlottesville?

Oh, doesn’t count either?

If you can’t see the double standard of associating the dem party with rioters, anarchists, and looters while not associating the republicans with white supremacists and domestic terrorists, I don’t have much for you. You don’t get to pick and choose.

When it comes down to it, they’re both absurd comparisons. The truth is the average dem and the average rep are both boring, non murdering, non rioting people. I don’t support rioters burning down a store any more than you do.

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10 minutes ago, Negatory said:

Okay, last example of a conservative movement gone wrong. How about the totally peaceful “Unite the Right Rally” in Charlottesville?

Oh, doesn’t count either?

If you can’t see the double standard of associating the dem party with rioters, anarchists, and looters while not associating the republicans with white supremacists and domestic terrorists, I don’t have much for you. You don’t get to pick and choose.

When it comes down to it, they’re both absurd comparisons. The truth is the average dem and the average rep are both boring, non murdering, non rioting people. I don’t support rioters burning down a store any more than you do.

You’re falsely applying a “double standard” here because only one side of the political spectrum was rioting, looting, and burning down cities across the entire country this summer. Incontrovertible fact. Widespread, affected people broadly across the country, not some one-off rally. 

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