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How do you feel about your airframe and mission?

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brabus    519

As a straight to UPT guy crossing in 3-4 yr is higher chance than a late rate guy, but the F-35 will eventually normalize just like the raptor. A lot of viper guys have been transitioning lately, and combined with b-courses graduating now, my guess is normalization is only a few years out.

If your ultimate goal is F35, and you're fighting with a desire to fly a viper for a few years first, then I suggest try to get to the F35 now. But, the viper (as an example) is going to be around for a long time, so all is not lost if you don't go to the F35, now or ever. In the end it's the whole "a bird hand is worth two in the bushel" saying...rank your choices based on what you want long term, even if that means you might miss out on your "childhood dream jet" for a few years. I doubt a single dude graduating fat Amy b-course right now really has much, if any, heartburn about not flying a viper, eagle, etc. 

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a lot of upt studs in the 38 side seem to be labeling the viper as the "lame jet" since it lacks the (advertised) bells and whistles but if you're interested in a multi role mission, I highly suggest you talk to IPs who flew the viper.

There's nothing quite like being able to do air to ground and air to air missions in a single seat jet without a mouth breather in the back draining your SA (no offense, Mudhens)

 

 

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BFM this    310
1 hour ago, carminsandiego said:

 (no offense, Mudhens)

WHAT?  I said "with all due respect".

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viper154    92

I'm interested to see what the peanut gallery has to offer for a question. I'm a UPT D to MQ-9s at Cannon from the 2015 round, T-1s were my phase 3 jet. Looks like the first group of us MQ-9 guys are on the fall 2018 VML list. I enjoy AFSOC and the mission set and a big part of me wants to stay, but myself and my family really don't want to come back to Cannon. Gunships and the C-146 are on the top of my list but I have heard some guys talk about the gunships not being very accepting of new guys from other jets, any truth to this? 

I also would enjoy C-17s and tankers, and both for the most part have better basing options for myself and the family. I'm a little less accepting of ACC C2/ISR, but beggars can't be choosers, I'm happy just to get the chance to fly again  

Fairly sure this is going to work like a UPT round 2 or FAIP drop, so it will depend what's on the assignment list anyway. 

 

So so do you try to stay AFSOC with a mission you enjoy a lot, but potential for coming back to Cannon, or go for a AMC slot, with a mission I still like and want to do, just not as much as the AFSOC mission, with much better/more basing options? 

 

 

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I'm interested to see what the peanut gallery has to offer for a question. I'm a UPT D to MQ-9s at Cannon from the 2015 round, T-1s were my phase 3 jet. Looks like the first group of us MQ-9 guys are on the fall 2018 VML list. I enjoy AFSOC and the mission set and a big part of me wants to stay, but myself and my family really don't want to come back to Cannon. Gunships and the C-146 are on the top of my list but I have heard some guys talk about the gunships not being very accepting of new guys from other jets, any truth to this? 
I also would enjoy C-17s and tankers, and both for the most part have better basing options for myself and the family. I'm a little less accepting of ACC C2/ISR, but beggars can't be choosers, I'm happy just to get the chance to fly again  
Fairly sure this is going to work like a UPT round 2 or FAIP drop, so it will depend what's on the assignment list anyway. 
 
So so do you try to stay AFSOC with a mission you enjoy a lot, but potential for coming back to Cannon, or go for a AMC slot, with a mission I still like and want to do, just not as much as the AFSOC mission, with much better/more basing options? 
 
 



Thats not really a question anyone here can answer for you. You and your family need to sit down and have a serious discussion about the pros and cons and decide what is best for all of you based on the priorities you all agree to.

Adding food for thought: the C-130 is going to give you the mission closest to AFSOC while being in AMC. Very busy, very involved in tactical ops, lots of base choices including overseas. The HC-130 (ACC rescue) has its share of issues but flying style is very similar to AFSOC and and doesn't go to Cannon (Moody and DM for ops, Nellis for WIC, DM for test, and Kirtland for FTU). The main problems with the HC-130 are less involved (people don't need to be rescued very often) and a little bit of an identity crisis regarding what capabilities need to be developed or abandoned.

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viper154    92
36 minutes ago, bronxbomber252 said:

 

 


Thats not really a question anyone here can answer for you. You and your family need to sit down and have a serious discussion about the pros and cons and decide what is best for all of you based on the priorities you all agree to.

Adding food for thought: the C-130 is going to give you the mission closest to AFSOC while being in AMC. Very busy, very involved in tactical ops, lots of base choices including overseas. The HC-130 (ACC rescue) has its share of issues but flying style is very similar to AFSOC and and doesn't go to Cannon (Moody and DM for ops, Nellis for WIC, DM for test, and Kirtland for FTU). The main problems with the HC-130 are less involved (people don't need to be rescued very often) and a little bit of an identity crisis regarding what capabilities need to be developed or abandoned.

 

 

You are 100% correct. I by no means will making a decision that effects the next 6-14 years of our life  off random internet advice, guess I'm looking for what are some things to consider besides basing and mission, and what any of you that cross flowed airframes have considered or would do differently, or anyone that has crossflowed from AFSOC to AMC or AMC to AFSOC and what you thought. 

 

HCs and slicks are both jets I would love to fly as well. Good points to consider. 

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hispeed7721    307
2 hours ago, viper154 said:

Gunships and the C-146 are on the top of my list but I have heard some guys talk about the gunships not being very accepting of new guys from other jets, any truth to this? 

 

I've seen F16, F15E, U28, C145, every 130 variant, etc etc guys come through gunships and all have been accepted and done well. The ones who don't do well and get the cold shoulder are the ones who show up and think that because they've been somewhere else, they know everything about everything. There are massive amounts of very varied experience in the gunship community and as long as that experience is used to make the platform more lethal, instead of dick measuring, it's received as a positive. 

If you want first hand experience with high time 146 guys to answer whatever questions you've got, hit me up and I'll put you in touch

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nsplayr    599

U-28s keeps you in AFSOC but gives you a 2/3 shot at HRT vs CVS (with 2 out of 3 ops squadrons being in FL). I would like to think that coming off of several years at Cannon already they would slot you for a HRT squadron but then again that's obviously not guaranteed. Other options you should probably consider are U & J model gunships which are HRT-only. Since you mentioned C-146s, the pilots I've known that flew them have only said great things, other than being based at Cannon.

I loved my time flying in the U-28 community and the mission set is probably as close to the MQ-9 as you're gonna get.  As long as you're not a douche your experience in the Reaper would be greatly valued. I'm actually in the middle of going the opposite direction as you, former U-28 CSO now future MQ-9 pilot in the guard, and I think the more cross-pollination we can get between those two communities (and the gunships), the better.

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viper154    92
16 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

U-28s keeps you in AFSOC but gives you a 2/3 shot at HRT vs CVS (with 2 out of 3 ops squadrons being in FL). I would like to think that coming off of several years at Cannon already they would slot you for a HRT squadron but then again that's obviously not guaranteed. Other options you should probably consider are U & J model gunships which are HRT-only. Since you mentioned C-146s, the pilots I've known that flew them have only said great things, other than being based at Cannon.

I loved my time flying in the U-28 community and the mission set is probably as close to the MQ-9 as you're gonna get.  As long as you're not a douche your experience in the Reaper would be greatly valued. I'm actually in the middle of going the opposite direction as you, former U-28 CSO now future MQ-9 pilot in the guard, and I think the more cross-pollination we can get between those two communities (and the gunships), the better.

Thanks for the info. Guard MQ-9s is good gig. All the pleasure of killing assholes without the pain of the endless shift work. I was actually surprised how little we work together home station for how frequently we share a stack and target down range. Rumor is the change they made to all the enlisted manned and unmanned aircrew going to one AFSC and the same wings to allow for easier crossflow for RPA and manned guys to switch platforms. Don't how much truth their was to that. Good luck in your transition! Ehhh crossflow. Transition might be the wrong word right now  unless you're into that sort of thing. 

Edited by viper154
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polcat    12

I'll add on to the C-130 pile. All AD slick C-130s are J (Yokota is in transition). So you have Dyess, Little Rock, Ramstein, and Yokota. Oddly enough, I've done more cool shit in the C-130J during my last assignment to the 61 AS than previous two assignments in the E and H.

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Cobra-809    4

Anyone that can chime in regarding the EC-130J (Commando Solo) from the Guard side of the house?  I know the EC-130 (Compass Call) was mentioned but nothing from the Guard end.

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dream big    129
On 8/1/2017 at 3:36 PM, carminsandiego said:

a lot of upt studs in the 38 side seem to be labeling the viper as the "lame jet" since it lacks the (advertised) bells and whistles but if you're interested in a multi role mission, I highly suggest you talk to IPs who flew the viper.

There's nothing quite like being able to do air to ground and air to air missions in a single seat jet without a mouth breather in the back draining your SA (no offense, Mudhens)

 

 

That's interesting, if I exhibited opinions  like that in 38s, I may have gotten choke slammed and put on permenant corn duty. 

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the g-man    28
20 hours ago, Cobra-809 said:

Anyone that can chime in regarding the EC-130J (Commando Solo) from the Guard side of the house?  I know the EC-130 (Compass Call) was mentioned but nothing from the Guard end.

Probably because there is 1 guard unit that flies the thing and they are probably too busy fighting the war from a sandy location.

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matmacwc    1,093
On 8/1/2017 at 3:36 PM, carminsandiego said:

a lot of upt studs in the 38 side seem to be labeling the viper as the "lame jet" since it lacks the (advertised) bells and whistles

 

 

You take advice from retards often?

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19 hours ago, dream big said:

That's interesting, if I exhibited opinions  like that in 38s, I may have gotten choke slammed and put on permenant corn duty. 

go talk to UPT IPs and/or see student's reactions on drop nights.  Dropping a viper gets a "yay...."  reaction for these spoiled punks (excluding the bomber drops because they all assume everyone in the class are getting pointy nose drops).    

Nothing wrong with wanting the newest/shiniest jet but when a drop consists of 75% vipers and 25% other fighters and studs call it an "decent" drop,  that gets me rattled.
And yes my example is anecdotal but again, ask anybody in touch with UPT side of the house and I'm sure they can agree to some extent. 

 

Different times, man...

Edited by carminsandiego

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Duck    852
11 hours ago, carminsandiego said:

go talk to UPT IPs and/or see student's reactions on drop nights.  Dropping a viper gets a "yay...."  reaction for these spoiled punks (excluding the bomber drops because they all assume everyone in the class are getting pointy nose drops).    

Nothing wrong with wanting the newest/shiniest jet but when a drop consists of 75% vipers and 25% other fighters and studs call it an "decent" drop,  that gets me rattled.
And yes my example is anecdotal but again, ask anybody in touch with UPT side of the house and I'm sure they can agree to some extent. 

 

Different times, man...

Would love to hear what these kids think about drops in 2009-2012 then, when half the class got Preds. A decent drop was just getting a Viper in the drop.

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LiquidSky    2
16 hours ago, Duck said:

Would love to hear what these kids think about drops in 2009-2012 then, when half the class got Preds. A decent drop was just getting a Viper in the drop.

"Thank god there's a dedicated RPA pipeline now."

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FlyLow    7
22 hours ago, Duck said:

Would love to hear what these kids think about drops in 2009-2012 then, when half the class got Preds. A decent drop was just getting a Viper in the drop.

My T-6 flight at Vance (mid-'09 class) had 33 studs.  "Super flight" at the time.  (Dunno if they still do that.)  Out of those 33; three guys got T-38s.  Out of those three, one got a fighter.

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jazzdude    39
Would love to hear what these kids think about drops in 2009-2012 then, when half the class got Preds. A decent drop was just getting a Viper in the drop.
It was funny a year ago when we were dropping 2 RPAs on the Tone side listening to the studs complain about how this is the first time RPASs were dropped at UPT. They were caught off guard when I mentioned that RPAs were in the drop back in 09 when I was a student, were not limited in number given, and were given to both 38s and Tones. They didn't think their situation was quite so bad or unique.

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war007afa    43
On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 8:38 PM, viper154 said:

You are 100% correct. I by no means will making a decision that effects the next 6-14 years of our life  off random internet advice, guess I'm looking for what are some things to consider besides basing and mission, and what any of you that cross flowed airframes have considered or would do differently, or anyone that has crossflowed from AFSOC to AMC or AMC to AFSOC and what you thought. 

 

HCs and slicks are both jets I would love to fly as well. Good points to consider. 

FWIW, there's a lot of guys who went to AMC first who were able to come to AFSOC (across the entire spectrum from C-21 to C-5 and tankers).  These guys have the flexibility to potentially flow back (saw this with an EC-130 guy) to their previous MDS.  The flow in the other direction is much more difficult.  If you grow up in AFSOC, there isn't a lot of flex to get you into other options out there.

If I were young again, I'd spend some time seeing the world in another MDS, and then determine if I wanted to flow into AFSOC or not later on in life.  But I grew up limited to two locations and a continuous deployment rhythm to the sandbox over a decade with little opportunity to expand beyond certain theaters.  AFSOC is exciting, but it can quickly become Groundhog Day.  YMMV.

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LiquidSky    2
On 8/5/2017 at 8:36 PM, FlyLow said:

My T-6 flight at Vance (mid-'09 class) had 33 studs.  "Super flight" at the time.  (Dunno if they still do that.)  Out of those 33; three guys got T-38s.  Out of those three, one got a fighter.

Soon (by this next fiscal year?) I believe they're ramping up to 30 studs again. Will be interesting to see how that goes.

Edited by LiquidSky

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YoungnDumb    24
35 minutes ago, LiquidSky said:

Soon (by this next fiscal year?) I believe they're ramping up to 30 studs again. Will be interesting to see how that goes.

We're already there at END.  30 is the standard for FY 18 classes (current crop of students) and rumor is FY19 will be 32-34.

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Duck    852

They are actually talking about cutting the UPT syllabus substantially to produce more pilots faster.

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