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Vimix22

2017 Active Duty UFT Board

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Starting a thread for 2017 Active Duty board. There is an annoucement out on myPers and packages are due in November. One change from last year is that if you are medically eligible, you must select and rank all of the rated positions (Pilot, Nav, RPA, ABM). So basically if all you want is pilot and you are offered something else and decline, then you will no longer be eligible to apply to future boards. There is also a website on the AF Portal with some raw data on the selectees from the previous 3 years. Interesting to note that of the 14 who were selected last year, all 14 had PPLs. Food for thought. 

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Just from talking to the dudes who got picked up in FY16, I think PPLs and scores were the two biggest deciding factors last year by a long shot. I haven't seen the raw data you're talking about, but I would imagine it backs this up.

I was fortunate enough to grab a slot last year, even though I had plenty working against me. I was on an age ETP at about 32 years old and, honestly, outside of picking up DG out of the BUFF FTU, I felt like my bullets were pretty run of the mill for a rated guy. I was #1/3 out of the squadron and #2 out of 35 or so from the wing (I never saw the final strat, just heard the approximate numbers from the exec).

Where I shined, I think was that I had a PPL and my test scores. My AFOQT and PCSM scores both took a nose dive after I commissioned so I studied my ass of and retook both. Despite feeling like a douche taking the AFOQT as, you know, someone who already qualified as an officer, I walked out with a 97/98/94/96/82 and a 96 PCSM when all was said and done. I know for a fact there were guys out there with a better set of bullets and equal strats to me, so I'm pretty convinced the scores made a difference.

In short, definitely check your AFOQT and PCSM scores if you're thinking of applying (and retake if you can/need to) and go get a PPL if you don't have one. I honestly think those are the two biggest keys to success all things considered. Good luck bros, and if anyone needs help with the age ETP thing or needs anything else just hit me up.

 

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I'll echo the above sentiments. I too got picked up on that board, and it seems like my strong points mirrored his. I'm also a rated guy and DG'd my training program, have my PPL, didn't get the best wing strat as far as application packages are concerned, but I had a 99 PCSM and a 97 Pilot AFOQT. So it seems to me that's the common theme, as well as as the fact that most of the people that got picked up come from rated backgrounds. If you don't have good AFOQT scores, go get a study guide and retake it. Then retake the TBAS if you need to, build some flight hours, and your PCSM should shoot up pretty high. I also have an ETP, but for a medical issue. So between the two of us, shoot questions our way if you got em.

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I got "picked up" as the #2 alternate on last year's AD board as a non-rated guy with only a 64 PCSM and no PPL.  It was my second time applying so this year will be my last shot.  I caution any young guys out there without absolutely killer PCSM scores (90+) to wait until you are more competitive.  Do not do what I did and burn your chances with a shitty package.  This board is the most insanely competitive avenue to UPT.  Without the 90+ PCSM and/or PPL you're betting on the whole person concept which is highly subjective and will vary year to year.

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I'm surprised to see that they came out with stats and specifically said on that PowerPoint not to be disconcerted with the 2016 scores. With that being said, does anyone know if there will be a lot more slots given out this year? Why would they open up the thread two months earlier than last years? I've talked to my pilot buddies who have told me that there is a pilot shortage, it's just that UPT is so backed up. Would be interested to hear your thoughts on that. Also, I think it's important to note, as a Second Lieutenant, all the people selected last year were 1st lts and captains. Kind of thought that was interesting.

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It's mostly because guys with aeronautical ratings have to be winged for two years before going to upt. That puts you in 1LT territory right there. For non rated guys, I'm guessing that the dudes with the strongest packages have been around for a bit and have built a reputation.

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What I've told my guys who want to apply is this - think about not getting selected right now. Would there be things you can control that you would wish you had done? If so, do them before applying. If there is anything within your control that you can do to make your application stronger, do it.

A lot of things in the AF are timing and luck, but don't ever give yourself the opportunity to say "I wish I'd done xxxx"

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I am an active duty CSO and am applying but I feel it's a long shot. I retook the TBAS and somehow only managed a 59 PCSM with 20hrs ppl time. I will retake the AFOQT since it got adjusted from a 91 to a 68 but idk how much it will help my dismal PCSM.

I don't want to sound like a douche but I can't believe there is no 3rd TBAS waiver as I took it 7yrs ago and at the time I didn't put much care into it because I was already selected as a Nuclear Physcist out of ROTC. My det commander was the one who changed my mind my senior year hence why I'm a CSO now.

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Go online and check to see how much your PCSM will change with more flight time. Years ago the algorithm got changed to weigh flight time significantly more, so you might be able to bring it up (STS) quite a bit.

Hopefully you kept a log of your IFS flying because that counts, so there's a free 14 (or however much it is now) hours to add

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3 hours ago, hispeed7721 said:

 

Go online and check to see how much your PCSM will change with more flight time. Years ago the algorithm got changed to weigh flight time significantly more, so you might be able to bring it up (STS) quite a bit.

 

Hopefully you kept a log of your IFS flying because that counts, so there's a free 14 (or however much it is now) hours to add

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this. Also, if you don't have your ifs hours, you can email the registrar at Doss and get a transcript with your hours and tail numbers on it. It's on their website  (I'd link it but I'm on my phone). Good luck!

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Thanks for the replies, I'll email the registrar and try and get those hours. Unfortunately even if I got 201+hrs it would only bring it up to an 81. I am really hoping that taking the AFOQT from a 68 to 90+ can help me get it up even more. It seems if it is not a 90+ I will not be competitive at all. I wish they would forgo my original TBAS since it was taken 7 years ago.

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6 hours ago, DET1 said:

Thanks for the replies, I'll email the registrar and try and get those hours. Unfortunately even if I got 201+hrs it would only bring it up to an 81. I am really hoping that taking the AFOQT from a 68 to 90+ can help me get it up even more. It seems if it is not a 90+ I will not be competitive at all. I wish they would forgo my original TBAS since it was taken 7 years ago.

Try e-mailing AFPC.PCSM@us.af.mil explaining your situation. I just now kind of wrapped my head around what your situation is (sorry, I was just kind of browsing the thread earlier).

Long story short, I took my TBAS about 7 years ago as well. I did abysmally. I took it again after 180 days was up and scored a 92. When they rescored everything, it dropped back down to a 78. I'd already taken the TBAS twice, so I e-mailed these guys when I decided to apply to the UFT board last year asking what I needed to do to submit a request for a third test. They came back and said I was authorized a retest because of the version change, even though the FAQs page on the TBAS site seemed to imply I didn't. I took it again and scored a 96. Shit was awesome.

Your situation might be different since you've taken the new version already, however I'd shoot them an e-mail and see if you have any recourse based on your situation. If anything, they may allow you an outright retest since the guidance isn't crystal clear with the new version now -- or you might be able to get a waiver pushed through if need be. Remember, you can still update your scores even after the cutoff for application submission up to a certain point, so if it takes a while it still might be worth it. The worst answer you can hear is you're f'd and stuck with your score, and in that case I'd encourage you to still push forward with your application. You never know what's going to happen, and the dude running the board this year at AFPC is super adamant that people don't get discouraged by the ridiculous average score/selection rate last year. You might still be competitive with other things in your application and not even know it.

Also, just for reference, I retook the AFOQT as well. My pilot score went from a 90 to a 76 when they realigned the scores. So when I took the TBAS again, it came back in the low 80s. When my new AFOQT scores came back with a 97 pilot score or something like that, it shot my PCSM up over 10 points. The weight they're putting on the AFOQT seems to be much heavier than it used to be.

Again, good luck man.

Edited by gohornsgo

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What I've told my guys who want to apply is this - think about not getting selected right now. Would there be things you can control that you would wish you had done? If so, do them before applying. If there is anything within your control that you can do to make your application stronger, do it.

A lot of things in the AF are timing and luck, but don't ever give yourself the opportunity to say "I wish I'd done xxxx"

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I'm not in the habit of quoting myself, but I can't stress this enough. You can't know how the spectrum of applicants is made up year to year.

If there's something that you can realistically control, then you have to decide the cost/benefit of it (more flying hours for example). Is it worth $3000 to get more hours and add 5 points to your PCSM? If you don't get selected are you going to wonder if that's the reason why? That's something only you can answer.

And in the end remember - timing and luck are 90% of everything.

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I'm on my third and final attempt at the AD UFT board.  Currently an Instructor WSO with 77 PCSM, PPL, strong letter of recommendation, and hoping to be granted a TFCSD ETP.   My next PCSM hurdle with regard to flight hours is 201+ which would get me to an 81, and cost me about ten grand.  The AFOQT I took 10 years ago is dragging my PCSM down.  It's been about that many years since I had a good grip on the AFOQT components that comprise the Pilot and Nav scores, so I'm pretty concerned that I'd tank it if I used my second attempt at it.  It's anyone's guess if I can scrape by on the whole person concept, just wondering if folks would recommend that I buckle down and try to raise my scores or let it ride.

If nothing else, a cautionary tale to the young dudes reading this with time left to affect their scores.

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13 hours ago, wazzuPIC said:

I'm on my third and final attempt at the AD UFT board.  Currently an Instructor WSO with 77 PCSM, PPL, strong letter of recommendation, and hoping to be granted a TFCSD ETP.   My next PCSM hurdle with regard to flight hours is 201+ which would get me to an 81, and cost me about ten grand.  The AFOQT I took 10 years ago is dragging my PCSM down.  It's been about that many years since I had a good grip on the AFOQT components that comprise the Pilot and Nav scores, so I'm pretty concerned that I'd tank it if I used my second attempt at it.  It's anyone's guess if I can scrape by on the whole person concept, just wondering if folks would recommend that I buckle down and try to raise my scores or let it ride.

If nothing else, a cautionary tale to the young dudes reading this with time left to affect their scores.

Dude, I did one night of cramming for the AFOQT, took it, and my PCSM went from a 55 to an 89.  Pilot score went from a 65 to a 92.  I'd do a little studying and go rage through it.  I'm sure you'd do fine. 

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On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 6:14 AM, wazzuPIC said:

I'm on my third and final attempt at the AD UFT board.  Currently an Instructor WSO with 77 PCSM, PPL, strong letter of recommendation, and hoping to be granted a TFCSD ETP.   My next PCSM hurdle with regard to flight hours is 201+ which would get me to an 81, and cost me about ten grand.  The AFOQT I took 10 years ago is dragging my PCSM down.  It's been about that many years since I had a good grip on the AFOQT components that comprise the Pilot and Nav scores, so I'm pretty concerned that I'd tank it if I used my second attempt at it.  It's anyone's guess if I can scrape by on the whole person concept, just wondering if folks would recommend that I buckle down and try to raise my scores or let it ride.

If nothing else, a cautionary tale to the young dudes reading this with time left to affect their scores.

For the CSO's looking to apply in the future.

Probably a little bit late for those applying this year, but I wanted to add my two cents.  If you took the AFOQT prior to your CSO/Nav training I would strongly suggest taking it a second time (especially if you had little to no flight experience prior to taking it the first time).  I purchased Barrons (not endorsing that product, or really any as the test has changed and I didn't find any that are full up on the new T version yet) and studied for about a week or two.  Taking the test I wasn't too sure on how I had did and didn't really feel too confident.  Well, a week later found out that my pilot went from a 68 to a 99.  I understand not wanting to get a lower score, but if you have been flying during the past 2.5+ years like the majority who will apply I strongly suggest giving it a second go.  Incidentally my Nav score dropped from a 98 to a 95 (skipped a question in block counting and had to restart after being halfway finished).  Good luck to all the applicants this board.

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When I got picked up in the supplemental 2011 UFT board, our wing leadership focused heavily on scores.  I had a 99 PCSM which I saw dropped into the 70's or 80's when the calculation process changed. (Luckily I was already at UPT)

Good luck to everyone boosting your scores and on the board!  Hopefully the pilot shortage bodes well with a high selection rate.

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Gents, 

Im currently a fresh 2LT in Maintenance pursuing a pilot slot. Got picked up for pilot in ROTC but got med DQd for "migraines". Other than that had a perfect FC1. However I got examined by a retired Air Force neurologist who examined my records (from ten years ago) and confirmed I was mis-diagnosed and cleared for all flying class physicals. Submitted the supplemental paperwork and got denied by the AF SG. Now I want to pursue flying again and think I can get around the "migraine" issue. I have 42 private flying hours and need to take my check ride for my ppl. My AFOQT scores (almost 5 years old now) are low but I didn't study when I took it. The numbers I got my pilot slot with are:

PCSM:55

AFOQT pilot: 53

Flying hours: 40

along with excellent strat, PT, and other factors. Took the AFOQT before my flying experience by the way.

Any advice from you guys? I am really passionate about flying and will do whatever it takes to get another slot!

 

Thanks!

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10 hours ago, Pmike said:

PCSM:55

AFOQT pilot: 53

Flying hours: 40

Highly recommend retaking the AFOQT after getting a study guide. If you scroll up on this thread, you'll see that on last year's board, the average PCSM was a 92 and the absolute lowest was a 78. Additionally, everyone that got picked up had a PPL. It's all but a requirement these days. Your PCSM should go up a bit after you input your flight hours, and the PCSM website should tell you about how much it will raise (http://access.afpc.af.mil/pcsmdmz/PCSMscores.html).

Also, here's the AFOQT study guide I used before I retook it: Study Guide . My pilot score went from a 77 to a 97 after using it, so it definitely helps.

I did hear through the grapevine that they'll be offering more pilot slots this year, so YMMV. You've got plenty of time between now and next year's board to get your ducks in a row, but do not waste time with the medical issue. As I'm sure you're aware, waivers can take a while to process, especially if you run in to any hangups along the way. Good luck. 

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14 hours ago, Pmike said:

Gents, 

Im currently a fresh 2LT in Maintenance pursuing a pilot slot. Got picked up for pilot in ROTC but got med DQd for "migraines". Other than that had a perfect FC1. However I got examined by a retired Air Force neurologist who examined my records (from ten years ago) and confirmed I was mis-diagnosed and cleared for all flying class physicals. Submitted the supplemental paperwork and got denied by the AF SG. Now I want to pursue flying again and think I can get around the "migraine" issue. I have 42 private flying hours and need to take my check ride for my ppl. My AFOQT scores (almost 5 years old now) are low but I didn't study when I took it. The numbers I got my pilot slot with are:

PCSM:55

AFOQT pilot: 53

Flying hours: 40

along with excellent strat, PT, and other factors. Took the AFOQT before my flying experience by the way.

Any advice from you guys? I am really passionate about flying and will do whatever it takes to get another slot!

 

Thanks!

Dude, without sounding like a downer....Air Force medical has a stick up their collective asses about migraines.  We just had to drop a guy from the Buff FTU for nausea-induced migraines, and even though he'd never gotten them in anything other than the Buff (nothing during IFT or UCT) they DQ'd him from ALL flying.  Just be aware, you may have a hard fight on your hands, AF SG's screw up or not.  Good luck!

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On 12/4/2016 at 0:18 PM, Switch408 said:

Highly recommend retaking the AFOQT after getting a study guide. If you scroll up on this thread, you'll see that on last year's board, the average PCSM was a 92 and the absolute lowest was a 78. Additionally, everyone that got picked up had a PPL. It's all but a requirement these days. Your PCSM should go up a bit after you input your flight hours, and the PCSM website should tell you about how much it will raise (http://access.afpc.af.mil/pcsmdmz/PCSMscores.html).

Also, here's the AFOQT study guide I used before I retook it: Study Guide . My pilot score went from a 77 to a 97 after using it, so it definitely helps.

I did hear through the grapevine that they'll be offering more pilot slots this year, so YMMV. You've got plenty of time between now and next year's board to get your ducks in a row, but do not waste time with the medical issue. As I'm sure you're aware, waivers can take a while to process, especially if you run in to any hangups along the way. Good luck. 

More pilots slots this year? Where did you hear that juicy nugget? 

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8 hours ago, Vimix22 said:

More pilots slots this year? Where did you hear that juicy nugget? 

Someone who knows someone at AFPC. So just like any rumor on this website, take it with a grain of salt. Either way, its not hard to increase from the 15 slots they offered last year.

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