2016 UPT Board

[GlassEmpty]

Question regarding the new temp-Art deal:

 

As a very recent UPT graduate, I will not finish my FTU for a few months, will I have to ask my unit for a baby art job? Or is it kind of implied that I will "get one if I want" based off of this memo? 

 

my my question is, does it depend on how bad the unit wants to fight for one of these jobs for new studs on their prog tour or is it thought of as a sure thing? 

How recent? The way it's been explained to me you can count on it. But not forced. I grad my FTU in October and my hand isn't forced into anything but it is an option. I can tell you every career reservist I've talked to is screaming "don't do it". Every palace chaser who is tasting freedom is saying "it could be worse and you have a guaranteed paycheck". For the latter question, they won't have to fight for these positions. They're temporary positions offered to try and keep folks around.

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[BUM15]

Thanks for the response. I graduated end of June, yea it seems interesting tho. Basically I'm trying to figure out if I should start looking at regionals/other FO flying gigs once my prog tour runs out or not. 

 

decisions desicions 

 

best of luck to everyone who just got selected btw!

Edited July 30, 2016 by BUM15

[scoobs]

On 7/25/2016 at 5:57 PM, F16Rooster said:

I'm a guard bum so maybe we're coming from different areas but I get more hours (a lot more, 450ish in the past 12 months) than any of our full-timers.  And after all the deductions (insurance, bullshit retirement plan, etc) I make more or less what my ART buddies make.  Maybe I'm missing something or it's a Guard vs Reserve thing but in my mind that decision is easy in our current environment.  There are some life factors like kids or living paycheck to paycheck that may make ART more attractive but I think for most troughing is a better deal. 

As to how that plays into the bigger topic: 6 years?  Wow that's a long time.  I probably would have been ok with it when I was begging for a UPT slot but with some perspective, no way.  This is only going to reduce the quality of the applicants in the long run.  Unless as bb17 says, there is more to the story. 

I don't buy it. The benefits package alone would put you ahead of bumming pay. I don't understand your hate towards federal government retirement but you still are getting a 401k match which is huge long term.

Pay for a O2 is in the low 50k which means you would have to work 25 pay day's bumming which is hard to do. At least with the Art you don't have to be on the road to get paid.

Edited August 1, 2016 by scoobs

[Waivergate]

8 minutes ago, Kiloalpha said:

Any scoop on if this memo requiring ART/AGR service has been kicked down to the ANG as well? I've skimmed the forums here and elsewhere but all I see is AFRC specific stuff.

From what I gather this is AFRC only. That's from my sponsoring unit as well as a friend who works on the boards.

Could that change tomorrow? Of course.

[Herk Driver]

Any scoop on if this memo requiring ART/AGR service has been kicked down to the ANG as well? I've skimmed the forums here and elsewhere but all I see is AFRC specific stuff.

Not sure what you mean by kicked down to the ANG.

This was signed by the AFRC CC. Only him. I don't think NGB has any reason or interest in signing a similar memo but who knows.

[bb17]

2 hours ago, Kiloalpha said:

You're absolutely right, I'm not holding my breath. Just honestly curious on how far this idea has carried. Thanks for the info though.

FWIW, I'm not sure how the NGB would try to implement such a policy. One would think that the hurdles created by each state would make it a mine field... But admittedly I'm sitting on the outside looking in, no great insight or expertise here. As someone managing a business w/ a side job though, I've basically written off AFRC thanks to this policy.

Had you been picked up by an AFRC squadron yet or just been looking around? 

[bb17]

24 minutes ago, Kiloalpha said:

Herk, it was just a phrase. I wondered with Total Force being the buzzword... if they'd align both under similar programs.

Nope, placed the calls and had a few interviews but no luck to date. I saw you got picked up by the AFRC board BB... Congrats!

I'm going to keep looking at AFRC and ANG, but if the policy is as rigid as the memo seems to make it sound... That makes it hard for those of us with established business connections/jobs that we want to try and return to after seasoning.

Thanks! The info that was relayed to me from my squadron was that the memo becomes mandatory for the November 2016 board but "encouraged" for people currently in the pipeline, so if this is the truth then I should be okay, but sounds like it is a deal breaker for you if you haven't been picked up yet. I am in a similar situation as you with the established business aspect so the 6 year ART would have been a deal breaker for me too. Looks like I got lucky but need to proceed cautiously. 

Edited August 1, 2016 by bb17

[thankyouthanks]

Mandatory for all recent selects. I've signed the new commitment form and it is only for afrc as far as I know. 

[bb17]

3 minutes ago, thankyouthanks said:

Mandatory for all recent selects. I've signed the new commitment form and it is only for afrc as far as I know. 

When did you sign it? Everyone who got selected by my squadron has been told to not sign it unless they want to and there doesn't seem to be any backlash from that. What did they tell you? When did you enlist? 

[DeltaTango]

On 8/1/2016 at 0:31 PM, Kiloalpha said:

Any scoop on if this memo requiring ART/AGR service has been kicked down to the ANG as well? I've skimmed the forums here and elsewhere but all I see is AFRC specific stuff.

I am ANG, I spoke to my hiring guy at the unit im heading to after UPT (going to OTS AUG) and apparently there are discussions at NGB regarding this memo. They may look at manning at a unit level and determine if something similar to this (if not identical) will be implemented. I was told it is very possible that something similar (if not identical) to this memo will be in effect post graduation. As of yet, no official documents I have signed. I will be visiting the unit soon and will check in.

[BUM15]

Does anyone know, since I was a UFT graduate before 1 Dec 16, will I still have the normal prog tour or will it go straight to the temp art deal(which I would have to chose to do)?

Havent really gotten a straight answer from my unit, I honestly don't think they know much about it just yet. Just wondering if anyone had gotten back to their units or heard anything new about it. FYI legacy Herc unit 

[bb17]

3 hours ago, BUM15 said:

Does anyone know, since I was a UFT graduate before 1 Dec 16, will I still have the normal prog tour or will it go straight to the temp art deal(which I would have to chose to do)?

Havent really gotten a straight answer from my unit, I honestly don't think they know much about it just yet. Just wondering if anyone had gotten back to their units or heard anything new about it. FYI legacy Herc unit 

You don't have to sign it so don't let them talk you into it unless it is something you want to do. 

Edited August 10, 2016 by bb17

[knightops]

This will ONLY be mandatory for candidates meeting the 16-02 and later AFRC UPT board. It is optional for others. 

[c_dub_g]

4 hours ago, knightops said:

This will ONLY be mandatory for candidates meeting the 16-02 and later AFRC UPT board. It is optional for others. 

Do you or anybody else here have the official dates for the AFRC OTS/UFT Board and package cutoff? I've heard Novemeber 14-16 but haven't seen anything official. 

[last_chance]

10 hours ago, knightops said:

This will ONLY be mandatory for candidates meeting the 16-02 and later AFRC UPT board. It is optional for others. 

While there is a lot about this that is still unknown, this statement is not true. This would be mandatory for anyone that graduates UPT after 01 Dec 2016 if no change is made from the memo I posted last month.

[bb17]

21 minutes ago, last_chance said:

While there is a lot about this that is still unknown, this statement is not true. This would be mandatory for anyone that graduates UPT after 01 Dec 2016 if no change is made from the memo I posted last month.

Keep in mind it is a memo that you have to sign. So don't sign the memo and it doesn't apply. 

[last_chance]

3 minutes ago, bb17 said:

Keep in mind it is a memo that you have to sign. So don't sign the memo and it doesn't apply. 

I cant imagine it will be as easy as just not signing the memo. Sure you don't have to sign the memo, but I can't imagine they will send you to OTS.  

Now if you are talking about the people that are already in UPT, then I can see how that could work. It will be a mess if a large majority say no thanks after already getting through the program. AFRC will have to decide if they are willing to loose current trainees and future applicants over this commitment.

  I have heard there are people trying to get out of the commitment, through waivers I believe,  who have civilian jobs they do not want to lose. This might be the way out future selects as well, but just not signing the memo doesn't seem like it would work.

 

[pancho17]

21 minutes ago, last_chance said:

I cant imagine it will be as easy as just not signing the memo. Sure you don't have to sign the memo, but I can't imagine they will send you to OTS.  

Now if you are talking about the people that are already in UPT, then I can see how that could work. It will be a mess if a large majority say no thanks after already getting through the program. AFRC will have to decide if they are willing to loose current trainees and future applicants over this commitment.

  I have heard there are people trying to get out of the commitment, through waivers I believe,  who have civilian jobs they do not want to lose. This might be the way out future selects as well, but just not signing the memo doesn't seem like it would work.

 

I can imagine its that easy. The reserve commitment that you sign becomes valid upon package submission to the AFRC board. They can't go back and time and make you sign a different commitment, which I think is why they've realized its not enforceable for any of the boards that have already convened. I think they're happy for anyone they can coerce into re-signing due to the language of the memo, but I don't think they actually have any legal standing to enforce it unless the original commitment you sign is the "new" one. That's at least the message they're passing down to the recruiters as well. So please, ask questions before you re-sign anything!

[last_chance]

2 minutes ago, pancho17 said:

I can imagine its that easy. The reserve commitment that you sign becomes valid upon package submission to the AFRC board. They can't go back and time and make you sign a different commitment, which I think is why they've realized its not enforceable for any of the boards that have already convened. I think they're happy for anyone they can coerce into re-signing due to the language of the memo, but I don't think they actually have any legal standing to enforce it unless the original commitment you sign is the "new" one. That's at least the message they're passing down to the recruiters as well. So please, ask questions before you re-sign anything!

I'll take your word for it. I wasn't even given the option to sign it. I did ask about it after I had swore in and they said its not something I would have to worry about for another few years. 

I imagine there is probably a new memo floating around that more clearly lays out what is going on.

[BUM15]

So if I graduated before 1 December, and may be interested, does anyone know how it works. 

Im guessing I have the normal Herc prog tour then maybe possibly, if I am interested, my unit applies for an opening? 

[GlassEmpty]

I'll take your word for it. I wasn't even given the option to sign it. I did ask about it after I had swore in and they said its not something I would have to worry about for another few years. 

I imagine there is probably a new memo floating around that more clearly lays out what is going on.

You would... Wouldn't you? But there isn't. It actually is this vague for anyone. If you make training dates with the signature I wouldn't even look back. Most likely your training is paid for and you're old news to AFRC.

That's a good thing.

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[GlassEmpty]

So if I graduated before 1 December, and may be interested, does anyone know how it works. 

Im guessing I have the normal Herc prog tour then maybe possibly, if I am interested, my unit applies for an opening? 

It'll be available. They'll contact you when they can process anything but until then you just gotta keep trucking.

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[Minus5]

Any more UPT boards this year or are we onto FY17?

[fsu_ppg]

My recruiter contacted me this week and asked me that they're looking for unsponsored applicants for the next board. While I would love to apply, I'm worried that since I haven't completed my PPL yet (20hrs) will get me rejected. He seems to think that my scores (98 Pilot; 73 PCSM which is going up to 77 after next week due to flight time). are competitive enough for it to be a non-issue. Does anybody have any insight into this? He's also told me that I have a two lifetime limit to go up to the AFRC board so I definitely don't want to burn a time. 

Thanks!

PS. Also I have some confusion about the board dates. He told me it was in November, but I'm seeing everywhere on here that it's in January. If that's the case there's the small possibility I would have my PPL by the time they convened, if not then super close.

[Vimix22]

14 hours ago, fsu_ppg said:

My recruiter contacted me this week and asked me that they're looking for unsponsored applicants for the next board. While I would love to apply, I'm worried that since I haven't completed my PPL yet (20hrs) will get me rejected. He seems to think that my scores (98 Pilot; 73 PCSM which is going up to 77 after next week due to flight time). are competitive enough for it to be a non-issue. Does anybody have any insight into this? He's also told me that I have a two lifetime limit to go up to the AFRC board so I definitely don't want to burn a time. 

Thanks!

PS. Also I have some confusion about the board dates. He told me it was in November, but I'm seeing everywhere on here that it's in January. If that's the case there's the small possibility I would have my PPL by the time they convened, if not then super close.

Your concerns are valid but if you don't apply then you won't know. I haven't heard about the two time-application limit but I wouldn't be surprised it was true. When you talk about being sponsored/unsponsored you are always referring to the AFRC UPT Board which is being held in November this year. My OA recruiter told me they usually have applications turned in by 2nd or 3rd week in October for this board. The board in January is the board for Active Duty, meaning you are already a commissioned officer and looking to cross-train to pilot from another career field. The original poster started this as a 2016 AD board discussion but has since moved to an AFRC board discussion which can be confusing. Hope this helps.