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PinkFive

Education Exception to Policy Question (ANG/AFRC)

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Hi folks, I know this might seem like a rather bold question, but I have searched quite a bit and haven't found the exact answers I am looking for. I thought this would be the place to ask before I start contacting units.

I have seen on unit applications that there is an education exception to policy for applicants who do not have Bachelor's degrees but are "exceptionally qualified." The requirements were based on hours completed and GPA with the caveat of finishing a Bachelors within 4 years of commission. So here is where I am at currently, and why I see this as an opportunity.

Personal Details:

-2 Associates Applied Science in Aviation Maintenance. 4.0 GPA Board of Regents Graduate
-current student in Part 141 Pilot Training program which will award another AAS. Will end with ratings up through CFII/MEI if on time. Currently at 32 hours towards PPL (I know, right?)
-Airframe & Powerplant license holder
-4+ years AD Army (armament and avionics on AH-64D's). Iraq Deployment. MOS Distinguished Honor Graduate. Honorably Discharged. Security Clearance.
-12 hours additional college credits (3.9 GPA)
-Age: 27
-Female
-tons of leadership experience and strong LORs
-Interested only in heavies

As it stands now, I will graduate in June of 2016, just at my 29th birthday. I know this makes me age critical, which is why I would like to attempt a so called education exception. Would I be considered "exceptionally qualified?" It wasn't exactly detailed in the application. I was also recently told by someone of stature in the AFRC command that female pilots are desperately needed. I don't care if its for bullshit EO reasons, if that is an angle I have I'll use it.

Would it be better for me to attempt an education exemption based on being age critical, or work on a Bachelors and ask for an age waiver? I feel like since it is listed on applications, it is an opportunity worth taking. I don't mind if my application is laughed at... I'd rather that than have not tried at all.

Any insights or clarification on this policy is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Edited by PinkFive

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I think you might actually be making this more difficult than necessary. If you are actively pursuing your bachelors and you find a unit that hires you, they will help you make it happen. You need to make sure your priorities are getting that degree ASAP and rushing units. I wouldn't show up at units saying you are looking for an "exceptionally qualified" position; just rush the unit and let them know you will be done with your degree by June of 16.

And whoever told you AFRC needs "female pilots" has no idea what they are talking about. In AFRC (just like the ANG) the units choose who they want to hire. That being said, I do know that AFRC didn't fill all its UPT slots last year. This isn't AFRC's fault; it is the individual units that elected (for whatever reasons) not to hire.

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I think you might actually be making this more difficult than necessary. If you are actively pursuing your bachelors and you find a unit that hires you, they will help you make it happen. You need to make sure your priorities are getting that degree ASAP and rushing units. I wouldn't show up at units saying you are looking for an "exceptionally qualified" position; just rush the unit and let them know you will be done with your degree by June of 16.

And whoever told you AFRC needs "female pilots" has no idea what they are talking about. In AFRC (just like the ANG) the units choose who they want to hire. That being said, I do know that AFRC didn't fill all its UPT slots last year. This isn't AFRC's fault; it is the individual units that elected (for whatever reasons) not to hire.

Thanks for the reply. I should clarify, when I graduate in 16 it will be with my 3rd Associates... not a Bachelors. I am about to attempt working towards my Bachelors concurrent with what I am doing now, but I can't guarantee I'll be done by then.

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well since she brought it up...

I have almost all my boxes checked, I'm a stud yatta yatta except I'm only a junior in college. I've been sittin here with this package cocked and loaded waiting until I got that sweet piece of paper, then I was gonna start rushing. Do I have the option of applying sooner? I assumed some reg would hold me back.

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Hmmm...should I apply and chance getting rejected or not apply and guarantee it?

Seriously though, probably need to be within a year of graduating to be really considered. Just a blind guess based on the time line of the typical new hire to upt, which is anywhere between 1-2 years, with the average around 14-18 months from what I've seen.

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Hmmm...should I apply and chance getting rejected or not apply and guarantee it?

Seriously though, probably need to be within a year of graduating to be really considered. Just a blind guess based on the time line of the typical new hire to upt, which is anywhere between 1-2 years, with the average around 14-18 months from what I've seen.

This is what I thought as well, but when i saw the "4 years to finish Bachelors" statement, I thought what the hell? Maybe if a unit likes me enough they'll go for it. I just haven't heard of anyone being picked up without being closer to finishing their Bachelors. As of now I need about 30-40 credits to get a Bachelors. I'm not sure I can be full time at two colleges for a year.

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Have you considered just doing a bachelors and not concurrently doing the flying/AAS thing? I don't see a huge benefit in this third AAS; maybe I'm missing something. The flying thing is great and all, but having a bachelors is going to be FAR more important than being able to say you have a CFI ticket. I have heard of dudes being able to commission with 6 months left to finish a bachelors, but never have heard beyond that. I'm not saying the 4 year thing doesn't exist, but it seems very suspect one could do 4 full years as an officer, pinning on Capt right as they graduate college.

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Have you considered just doing a bachelors and not concurrently doing the flying/AAS thing? I don't see a huge benefit in this third AAS; maybe I'm missing something. The flying thing is great and all, but having a bachelors is going to be FAR more important than being able to say you have a CFI ticket. I have heard of dudes being able to commission with 6 months left to finish a bachelors, but never have heard beyond that. I'm not saying the 4 year thing doesn't exist, but it seems very suspect one could do 4 full years as an officer, pinning on Capt right as they graduate college.

I agree. I am considering ceasing the AAS to do a Bachelors but I have one more semester of GI Bill left which gives me $10,000 for instrument training. I want to at least use that and then possibly start the bachelors this summer. Instrument seems like a good rating to get basically for free. it would suck to quit this program but if it means a chance to do what I always wanted and didn't realize I COULD do, well, I can get over it. I guess only the units can tell me to what extent they work with applicants/hires as far as education issues are concerned.

If I knew 10 years ago what I know now... :)

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I vote for plowing time and money into a bachelors... what is the CFI ticket going to give you vs a UPT slot? does the 10k have to be used for that or can it be used towards the bachelors?

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Well, I made the decision today after much debating and a lot of good advice, to discontinue the Part 141 Associates and begin my Bachelors. It won't take long to finish, which is a good thing because I am practically an old hag to the Air Force. ;) I'll be finishing my PPL part 61. I think it was the right choice. My husband was recently selected by an ANG unit so after watching him go through the process I have become pretty motivated that its a real possibility for myself as well.

The best part is, if I get selected and fly T-1's out of Laughlin I'll be able to return to my school's airport and piss off all the CFIs and students. Everyone hates the frequently present T-1's (especially our tower).

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I think you made a good decision; good luck with finishing up and getting a UPT slot.

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Hi all,

    Hopefully I'm posting this in the closest appropriate forum.  I am currently enlisted in a guard unit and I have taken the AFOQT twice now.  First time did ok to surpass the minimum of each section.  The scores then dropped after the AFOQT exam changed back in 2015.  Decided to take it this year and missed the verbal section's minimum.  I am chasing the pilot side of the house, received an 87 in pilot and PCSM should go up to 93 (if I understand the chart correctly) with my current flying hours.  Lastly, I am on my last semester for my Bachelor's degree.  The question is, has anyone seen or heard of any exception to policy for missing one section of the AFOQT (verbal)?  If so, how does it work? is it AFTER you're accepted for a UPT slot?

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On 6/28/2016 at 2:44 PM, Cocote809 said:

Hi all,

    Hopefully I'm posting this in the closest appropriate forum.  I am currently enlisted in a guard unit and I have taken the AFOQT twice now.  First time did ok to surpass the minimum of each section.  The scores then dropped after the AFOQT exam changed back in 2015.  Decided to take it this year and missed the verbal section's minimum.  I am chasing the pilot side of the house, received an 87 in pilot and PCSM should go up to 93 (if I understand the chart correctly) with my current flying hours.  Lastly, I am on my last semester for my Bachelor's degree.  The question is, has anyone seen or heard of any exception to policy for missing one section of the AFOQT (verbal)?  If so, how does it work? is it AFTER you're accepted for a UPT slot?

What score did you get on the verbal? 

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On 6/30/2016 at 10:54 AM, bb17 said:

What score did you get on the verbal? 

As much as I hate to say it, a verbal score of 9.  The part that sucks is that I know my "verbal" is not as horrible as the test makes it seem but apparently that's how it rated me.

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11 hours ago, Cocote809 said:

As much as I hate to say it, a verbal score of 9.  The part that sucks is that I know my "verbal" is not as horrible as the test makes it seem but apparently that's how it rated me.

Ok, the good news for you is that pilot candidates generally score worse on verbal for some reason. Average last board was 60. Bad news is that 9 is remarkably low. Considering that your post was grammatically correct I can only assume that the scoring algorithm did not work in your favor and you are probably not a retard. The other information you mentioned looks solid. Since you are in your last semester of school I'm guessing you have plenty of time to find a way to make this work, especially in the current hiring climate. AFRC seems to be way behind the curve getting applicants at the moment so if I were you I'd put a lot of effort into finding a squadron that likes you and would be willing to submit an ETP for your little flub. If you otherwise fit the "whole person concept" it might not be a big deal. 

Basically you will want to get sponsored by a unit who will submit an ETP request for you before the AFRC hiring board. If the ETP gets approved then they can submit your package to the AFRC board. My understanding is that you CANT get an ETP as an unsponsored candidate so find a unit first. I got an ETP on the last board for other reasons so it is still fresh to me. 

Edited by bb17

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On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 2:04 PM, bb17 said:

Ok, the good news for you is that pilot candidates generally score worse on verbal for some reason. Average last board was 60. Bad news is that 9 is remarkably low. Considering that your post was grammatically correct I can only assume that the scoring algorithm did not work in your favor and you are probably not a retard. The other information you mentioned looks solid. Since you are in your last semester of school I'm guessing you have plenty of time to find a way to make this work, especially in the current hiring climate. AFRC seems to be way behind the curve getting applicants at the moment so if I were you I'd put a lot of effort into finding a squadron that likes you and would be willing to submit an ETP for your little flub. If you otherwise fit the "whole person concept" it might not be a big deal. 

Basically you will want to get sponsored by a unit who will submit an ETP request for you before the AFRC hiring board. If the ETP gets approved then they can submit your package to the AFRC board. My understanding is that you CANT get an ETP as an unsponsored candidate so find a unit first. I got an ETP on the last board for other reasons so it is still fresh to me. 

Got it!  Well first of all, congratulations on the ETP! Thank you for believing the same thing I said when I saw the verbal score, "I can't be that bad."  Anyhow, I did read somewhere about the AFRC unsponsored hiring boards I just don't know how I will be able to get a unit to "like me" besides the unit that I am in now for them to sponsor me.  Good to know about the typical verbal score on other pilot candidates because the new test definitely seemed insanely difficult this time around.  Fortunately enough, I'll be able to re-test again after the six-month mark.  Turns out that my first score became invalid after the test changed in 2015 resetting the counter of the two examinations and allowing me to test once more.  Nonetheless, I appreciate the information very much boss! Best of luck to you! 

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5 hours ago, Cocote809 said:

Got it!  Well first of all, congratulations on the ETP! Thank you for believing the same thing I said when I saw the verbal score, "I can't be that bad."  Anyhow, I did read somewhere about the AFRC unsponsored hiring boards I just don't know how I will be able to get a unit to "like me" besides the unit that I am in now for them to sponsor me.  Good to know about the typical verbal score on other pilot candidates because the new test definitely seemed insanely difficult this time around.  Fortunately enough, I'll be able to re-test again after the six-month mark.  Turns out that my first score became invalid after the test changed in 2015 resetting the counter of the two examinations and allowing me to test once more.  Nonetheless, I appreciate the information very much boss! Best of luck to you! 

Good deal man. As for getting a unit to "like you", just start rushing (visiting) units that you are interested in and see if you are a good fit for them (and vice versa). Even if they aren't a good fit you might meet people who can point you in the direction of a unit who might be willing to work with you. That's how it worked out for me, and I couldn't be happier. Regardless, study up and try to ace the test next time around. Good luck!

Edited by bb17

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On 8/15/2016 at 8:49 PM, bb17 said:

Good deal man. As for getting a unit to "like you", just start rushing (visiting) units that you are interested in and see if you are a good fit for them (and vice versa). Even if they aren't a good fit you might meet people who can point you in the direction of a unit who might be willing to work with you. That's how it worked out for me, and I couldn't be happier. Regardless, study up and try to ace the test next time around. Good luck!

Thanks a lot bud! I'm just having a bit of a tough time finding studying materials for the Verbal section.  I think the best find so far has been "cram.com" for uploaded flashcards.  We'll see, hopefully it works out.  I have one year left to get accepted somewhere.  

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On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 2:04 PM, bb17 said:

Ok, the good news for you is that pilot candidates generally score worse on verbal for some reason. Average last board was 60. Bad news is that 9 is remarkably low. Considering that your post was grammatically correct I can only assume that the scoring algorithm did not work in your favor and you are probably not a retard. The other information you mentioned looks solid. Since you are in your last semester of school I'm guessing you have plenty of time to find a way to make this work, especially in the current hiring climate. AFRC seems to be way behind the curve getting applicants at the moment so if I were you I'd put a lot of effort into finding a squadron that likes you and would be willing to submit an ETP for your little flub. If you otherwise fit the "whole person concept" it might not be a big deal. 

Basically you will want to get sponsored by a unit who will submit an ETP request for you before the AFRC hiring board. If the ETP gets approved then they can submit your package to the AFRC board. My understanding is that you CANT get an ETP as an unsponsored candidate so find a unit first. I got an ETP on the last board for other reasons so it is still fresh to me. 

This is actually refreshing to hear... Pilot/Nav/AA/Verb/QI scored 99/92/95/77/99. After seeing the scores, I was like IDGAF because pilot is 99... but the verbal thing just caught me off guard because literally everything else was 90's...

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On 10/13/2016 at 8:08 AM, tk1313 said:

This is actually refreshing to hear... Pilot/Nav/AA/Verb/QI scored 99/92/95/77/99. After seeing the scores, I was like IDGAF because pilot is 99... but the verbal thing just caught me off guard because literally everything else was 90's...

My scores were nearly identical to yours so you are good to go! In fact I'd say you are quite a bit above average. Do well on TBAS if you haven't taken it yet. That test is pretty easy if you know what to study for but can screw you over if you are unprepared. 

Edited by bb17

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46 minutes ago, bb17 said:

My scores were nearly identical to yours so you are good to go! In fact I'd say you are quite a bit above average. Do well on TBAS if you haven't taken it yet. That test is pretty easy if you know what to study for but can screw you over if you are unprepared. 

Took TBAS unprepared already... very stupid... Can't score in 90's without 101 hours... I'll retake.

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9 minutes ago, tk1313 said:

Took TBAS unprepared already... very stupid... Can't score in 90's without 101 hours... I'll retake.

Oops! 

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10 minutes ago, bb17 said:

Oops! 

eh, could be worse... Most squadrons I've talked to have been like, "No big deal. Apply anyways."

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2 hours ago, tk1313 said:

Took TBAS unprepared already... very stupid... Can't score in 90's without 101 hours... I'll retake.

The days of getting PCSM scores of 80+ without much flight time went away with PCSM 2.0. A lot of low flight time guys saw their PCSM scores drop 20-30 points once the scoring method was updated. Some guys over on airforceots.com have done some educated speculation looking at tons of stats and it looks like a PCSM score of about 60 seems to be the highest possible now without any flight time. I have a 92 AFOQT Pilot score and my PCSM score is a 58 with 1-5 flight hours (still building more), so based on that speculation, I did quite well on the TBAS. My score projection shows 201 hours as breaking the 90+ barrier, so it sounds like you're in better shape than me. Anyway, my point is that it sounds like you did fine on the TBAS and just aren't up to speed on the new scoring model. Retaking probably isn't going to do much for you.

Edited by mb1685

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1 minute ago, mb1685 said:

The days of getting PCSM scores of 80+ without much flight time went away with PCSM 2.0. A lot of low flight time guys saw their PCSM scores drop 20-30 points once the scoring method was updated. Some guys over on airforceots.com have done some educated speculation looking at tons of stats and it looks like a PCSM score of about 60 seems to be the highest possible now without any flight time now. I have a 92 AFOQT Pilot score and my PCSM score is a 58 with 1-5 flight hours (still building more), so based on that speculation, I did quite well on the TBAS. My score projection shows 201 hours as breaking the 90+ barrier, so it sounds like you're in better shape than me. Anyway, my point is that it sounds like you did fine on the TBAS and just aren't up to speed on the new scoring model. Retaking probably isn't going to do much for you.

Well, that makes me feel A LOT better... Also makes sense as to why all the pilots are like "dude, you're good. Just apply".... I will say that I know of only 1 person who has hours in the 40's with a low 90's PCSM... I won't embarrass him by mentioning him by name, but he's a great guy and I wish him the best of luck.

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