UPT Gamble

[Hopefulflyer389]

Morning Everyone,

I am in need of some insight on my situation and I was told by numerous UPT students that this was the place to ask. I turned 24 this year in July, Married with 2 boys (2.5years old and 11 months old) and started college this year in May and I will have only 13 college credit hours at the end of this year. If I stay on track I can graduate with my bachelor's by the time I am 28-29. I am also currently acquiring my licenses, so I can fly as career no matter which path I take. I want to fly in the ANG/ Reserve with no previous military experience.

My question is, am I too late to chase this dream?

I spoke to a recruiter briefly on the phone and the first thing he told me is that I should enlist first and then go for a pilot slot, as most of the time they hire with in. Basically, he was trying to suck me down there so I can sign up for something else. Thank you for the info and for your service.

[HiFlyer]

First, there are no "right" answers to these questions, and different people have different opinions. I'm sure you'll get several opinions. For me, the answer is that you are certainly boardering on "lateness". But, the rules for Active Duty and Reserve accessions are a bit more stringent than the Guard (who sometimes control their own future a bit more than the AD/AFRES system) so that may help you with a Guard application. As for the recruiter's suggestion, it may be somewhat valid for the Guard but not for AD/AFRES. Enlisting requires taking time out to go to Basic and your Tech School, and you don't have much time to waste.

However, the real problem, as I see it, is that your graduation date is very close to the "drop dead" date for OTS and rated training dates. Enlisting only uses up more time that you will not be completing educational requirements, thus pushing your entry dates out farther into the future and making the situation more critical.. What you really need to do is figure out a way to speed up your college progression (don't take summer breaks, heavier class load, etc.). Graduation at 29 is really touchy...go for early 28 and you have a better chance. It's a tough situation with all the loads a family places on your time, but it's one thing that will improve your chances. The other thing, if you want to serve, is to look at the non-rated side, where the age limit expands to age 35. Not the desired aviation career, but it's something.

Finally, if the Guard is your goal, find the Guard unit(s) you are interested in and start talking to them. Learn what they are looking for, what programs they offer, etc. Guard units are a "club", and you stay with the "club" for a long time. If they like you, they can make things happen that an AD or Reserve unit probably won't match.

[ARIs 'R' Us]

1. Don't enlist.

2. What he said - speed up your college progression if possible.

If you want to fly, then keep working on your ratings. If you're a Commercial and/or CFI by the time you graduate, and can do well on the AFOQT, you'll be very competitive.

Is ROTC an option at your school or any nearby? If so it might e worth checking out.

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[Hopefulflyer389]

Thank you for the replies. Will be increasing my school load in the coming semesters. The wife (which completely supports me flying) and I are trying to put ourselves into a position, so I can quit my job and go to school full time, but with having the boys, having health insurance is a must have. I live in the DFW area and the closest guard unit is the 136th AW. Trying to find my way in, so I can get more information. I am wanting to fly fighters (like most people dream of) since the plan is to fly commercial and thought it would be a nice break to fly something like that. However, I will be happy with anything I can qualify for. It may sound bad, but I don't see myself joining if I can't fly. The family would not gain anything money wise or time wise even though I do have this burning desire to join, so I can contribute to my country.

You are correct on the timeline Gray Beard. I want to get my degree and attempt to qualify off of the street, instead of enlisting and wasting time. The future is unknown and all that can be done is to work hard. Also, I don't trust recruiters.

There is only Army ROTC program that is available at the community college I attend. Air Force ROTC is available at a university that is about 45 minutes away from the house but the tuition goes from th $55.00 a credit hour to nearly $300.00.

[ptorian]

If Air Force ROTC is available at a university near you, see if they have a crosstown program. I was in AFROTC at the University of Cincinnati for a year and we had plenty of cadets from surrounding schools that didn't have AFROTC programs. They still took academic classes and eventually graduated from their respective schools but they attended all ROTC functions at Cincinnati.

http://www.afrotc.com/locator

[ARIs 'R' Us]

If Air Force ROTC is available at a university near you, see if they have a crosstown program. I was in AFROTC at the University of Cincinnati for a year and we had plenty of cadets from surrounding schools that didn't have AFROTC programs. They still took academic classes and eventually graduated from their respective schools but they attended all ROTC functions at Cincinnati.

http://www.afrotc.com/locator

Spot on:

One thing to consider, if you go ROTC, you may end up earning your commission but not a pilot slot, so you won't be flying. With OTS, you're guaranteed a pilot slot IF you get selected. ROTC is probably the easier route, since there's no way to know if OTS will even be around in 3 years, but OTS is the only way you can know before you're committed that you'll be going to UPT.

ROTC grads, if I messed this up let me know.

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[dvlax40]

id also see what kind of subsidized federal loans/grants/scholarships you can qualify for as well for school that may help you speed up your classes. Good luck man!

[hispeed7721]

Bottom line: don't let anyone tell you no. There are very few things that will absolutely keep you from being able to go, you just have to do the legwork

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[viper154]

Some friends still in rotc said that the system has changed as far as automatically going active duty. They have some sort of new program where you can commission and just serve a couple years in the Inactive Ready Reserve or get hired by a guard/reserve unit. Might be worth looking into. Be careful though. They could change that in a heart beat and you could get stuck in a non rated career forced going AD. AF is real good at being indecisive as a 16 yr old girl getting dressed to go on a date.

[Sketch]

Some friends still in rotc said that the system has changed as far as automatically going active duty. They have some sort of new program where you can commission and just serve a couple years in the Inactive Ready Reserve or get hired by a guard/reserve unit. Might be worth looking into. Be careful though. They could change that in a heart beat and you could get stuck in a non rated career forced going AD. AF is real good at being indecisive as a 16 yr old girl getting dressed to go on a date.

This is true, but in addition if you're in the bottom of your senior class you may even get disenrolled just because they have to downsize. AFROTC offered a voluntary separation program for cadets in the Spring where those interested could opt out of their commission and owed the AF nothing. Unfortunately only a handful of cadets took the offer so they had to cut some people and I heard they will be doing it again next year.

Times are tough. The only way you can be safe is to fix the things under your control and hope for the best.

[Hopefulflyer389]

Thank you everyone once again for all of the good information. I would rather base my opportunity on getting my degree and apply for a pilot slot, then go through ROTC and end up without a pilot slot . That way if I don't make it, I can walk away with no commitment on something I don't want to do and I will already be flying.

You can through AFROTC now and if it is given, you can opt out of joining and owe them nothing? Even with a scholarship? Can you go through ROTC paying for college yourself and if you can't become a pilot you can quit? I will get more information from recruiters and search the forum.

[ARIs 'R' Us]

Thank you everyone once again for all of the good information. I would rather base my opportunity on getting my degree and apply for a pilot slot, then go through ROTC and end up without a pilot slot . That way if I don't make it, I can walk away with no commitment on something I don't want to do and I will already be flying.

You can through AFROTC now and if it is given, you can opt out of joining and owe them nothing? Even with a scholarship? Can you go through ROTC paying for college yourself and if you can't become a pilot you can quit? I will get more information from recruiters and search the forum.

That's what it sounds like, but these cuts are cyclical. 3 years from now the AF might be hurting for, say, space cadets and missile officers. The only way to guarantee that you won't have a commitment without a pilot slot is to graduate and try the OTS route. It worked for me...there's some skill and a lot more luck involved.

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[brabus]

Just one man's opinion: work hard enough in ROTC and you will get a pilot slot (pending medical stuff out of your control obviously). OTS is not a bad route, but it certainly takes more luck/timing and seems more volatile than ROTC. While in ROTC, I saw MAYBE two dudes in four years not get a pilot slot who probably should have, the rest who applied and didn't get one was of no shock to me. There is no guaranteed route without its own set of timing/luck hurdles. Based on your age you really have one (maybe two) shots at this. Personally if you have to throw all the chips on the table, I think ROTC probably offers you the best chance. The "worst case" if pilot doesn't work out, you serve your country for 4 years, probably still have a good time doing it and set yourself up well for a post-military career. If you really want to be a pilot, then I think that "4 year non-flying" thing is a risk worth taking.

[Hopefulflyer389]

I will be looking into AFROTC very soon and I will be asking about the commitment portion as well. I wouldn't mind still serving my country, but in the long run, how much will it affect my ability to establish my seniority for flying? Obviously a different topic and we all know that a good military record looks great on a résumé; just looking out for the future of my family and I will always question of what is the best route until I can stand at the fork in the road of life. Which is funny in a way, since I want to be a pilot and I will be gone a lot.

[summe32c]

Go guard early. I had a similar situation in which I was exploring alternative options for flying in the military. I pretty much exhausted all service options to get into pilot training. Primary was USAF but I was open to NAVY, Marines, and the Army. I had basically blanketed my application throughout including reserve components. While all this was going on, I was flying and going to AFROTC through a cross-town agreement. It was painful, but got me a set of wings. Through all of that, I was visiting at any guard/reserve unit that would allow me to. Met some great dudes and received some great advice from the guys that were once in my shoes. I ended up not going active, got out of AFROTC (because it was 45 minutes away and interfering with my class schedule (quibbling)) and pursuing the guard unit in which I fit best, and it worked out. It's not an easy process, but it's not cosmic either. At this point, you have options and time. I know that sounds crazy, but while you are going through the process of college and ROTC, you can explore the Guard and Reserves. 4 years is a substantial time to go to a few units, meet the folks and really have a feel for if you want to be there. You can then decide which route is best for you. At the end of the day, you will have a good handle on all of the options available to you. Like a few have mentioned before, the guard is like a club. Get to know the people, don't be a bag and you are pretty much there. I wish you the best of luck. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about the guard process. CHEERS

[FlatSpin]

What are you studying? You should research finding a degree and a school that will qualify you for a restricted ATP. They arnt cheap but it might be worth taking out a loan if you are really serious about being a pilot both civilian and military. You will be qualified for it if the AF picks you up but just in case, it is worth having a backup plan.

[Hopefulflyer389]

My current studies are only basics until I decide what I want to major in, which will be decided soon. Was thinking of doing Aviation Management, Business, or Engineering. Want to de diverse if I have to take a normal job during a furlough or be a test pilot. Thinking of the future. I didn't think about doing the restricted ATP route. I would hopefully be up to the ATP requirements of 750 hours when I get accepted into the ANG (being optimistic) and can acquire my ATP license.