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China & Chinese Shenanigans


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8 minutes ago, Lawman said:

Pull the Marlins out of museums. Then the Navy has a plane as old as the B-52.

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Not bad but if Congress and the Navy get drunk and irresponsible, they should fund a modernized R3Y Tradewind

R3Ytradewingnobackground.jpg

Totally a valid requirement because if China gets cool new toys then damn it if we shouldn't also... but just another expeditionary capability to add to their mix.

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I'm not gonna lie I love old Seaplanes. I don't care if it's fiscally responsible or even mission effective over land based counterparts when you look at our tanker capability. There is a mystique to them that overrides that logic in my head and says damn those are cool Id love to fly one.

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2 minutes ago, Lawman said:

I'm not gonna lie I love old Seaplanes. I don't care if it's fiscally responsible or even mission effective over land based counterparts when you look at our tanker capability. There is a mystique to them that overrides that logic in my head and says damn those are cool Id love to fly one.

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Ditto 

There is a cool factor and nostalgia that I love too.  Not to stretch logic and credibility but there is an argument to be made (sorta) for a modern seaplane for Coast Guard missions (SAR, LR maritime patrol, etc.) but given to state of acquisition / development  I imagine the requirements inflation monster would push it thru FL450 in development cost even if you took an old but proven design and adapted proven systems to it or vice versa, of course this is just me pontificating on what only appears to be be straightforward and easy... yeah, just slap some J model motors on, glass up front, it all work no problem... still as a taxpayer I'm for it...

 

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23 hours ago, Lawman said:

 

Not full scale deflection from the subject of this thread but getting there...

Historical video on the operational concept of the Tradewind...

Basically, you get self deployment capability into an amphibious setting for about a rifle company sized unit and a couple of vehicles / artillery / supplies with a built in tanker capability for probe & drogue for a CAP to support about 600 nm from base.  Not sure if the Chinese decided they want to do this with their seaplane (eventually) but for their artificial islands and any possible plans to  seize other islands, atolls, reefs, platforms, etc... this could be viable, relevant and not that expensive a capability to build.

They're making noise about expanding their outer chain of islands:  China: We Can Seize More Islands In South China Sea.  If you wanted to avoid the sub threat (assuming the air is permissible) you could keep the flag planted and defended in a lot of places way out there.

 

Edited by Clark Griswold
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On 1/9/2016 at 10:08 PM, Clark Griswold said:

Ditto 

There is a cool factor and nostalgia that I love too.  Not to stretch logic and credibility but there is an argument to be made (sorta) for a modern seaplane for Coast Guard missions (SAR, LR maritime patrol, etc.) but given to state of acquisition / development  I imagine the requirements inflation monster would push it thru FL450 in development cost even if you took an old but proven design and adapted proven systems to it or vice versa, of course this is just me pontificating on what only appears to be be straightforward and easy... yeah, just slap some J model motors on, glass up front, it all work no problem... still as a taxpayer I'm for it...

 

I agree!  The Catalina had long legs and was good enough to find the Bismark in May 1941  and the Japanese fleet for the Battle of Midway in June of 42.  Like Clark said, one of these with Herk motors and a glass cockpit! It'd be badass!

 

catalina_002[1].jpg

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On 1/9/2016 at 0:08 AM, Clark Griswold said:

Ditto 

There is a cool factor and nostalgia that I love too.  Not to stretch logic and credibility but there is an argument to be made (sorta) for a modern seaplane for Coast Guard missions (SAR, LR maritime patrol, etc.) but given to state of acquisition / development  I imagine the requirements inflation monster would push it thru FL450 in development cost even if you took an old but proven design and adapted proven systems to it or vice versa, of course this is just me pontificating on what only appears to be be straightforward and easy... yeah, just slap some J model motors on, glass up front, it all work no problem... still as a taxpayer I'm for it...

 

If you want to get funding, it has to be sexier...

Seamonsters_of_the_Navy_03012012_1_GALL.

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7 hours ago, HerkPerfMan said:

If you want to get funding, it has to be sexier...

Seamonsters_of_the_Navy_03012012_1_GALL.

Seamaster was awesome too but if we want to take this thread derailment to it's logical conclusion...

 

On a serious note, it was interesting to see even back in the 50's there was an effort to merge more of the mobility missions into one platform, direct delivery into an austere / difficult AOR and AR for a support CAP

 

 

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If you want to get funding, it has to be sexier...

Seamonsters_of_the_Navy_03012012_1_GALL.jpg__600x0_q85_upscale.jpg

Seamaster was awesome too but if we want to take this thread derailment to it's logical conclusion...

 

On a serious note, it was interesting to see even back in the 50's there was an effort to merge more of the mobility missions into one platform, direct delivery into an austere / difficult AOR and AR for a support CAP

 

 

Awesome!

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  • 1 month later...

Getting ready for the worst, maybe...

http://warisboring.com/articles/the-pentagon-readies-backup-island-base-in-case-of-chinese-missile-onslaught/

Reminded me of this from a few years ago where the Marines were renovating and doing exercises from old WWII airfields, this again on Tinian...

http://www.defensetech.org/2012/06/04/air-sea-battle-and-our-buildup-in-the-pacific/#more-17417

I haven't seen the USAF (or any other branch) participating lately in dispersal or road base exercises; might be worth our while to reacquaint ourselves with that if we think they might send a couple of thousand DF-26 missiles to Anderson, Kadena, Osan, etc...

Autobahn Landing Exercise Nordholz from back in 82

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx7Meo7w-pY

Edited by Clark Griswold
minor
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  • 4 months later...
On 1/9/2016 at 0:31 AM, Lawman said:

I'm not gonna lie I love old Seaplanes. I don't care if it's fiscally responsible or even mission effective over land based counterparts when you look at our tanker capability. There is a mystique to them that overrides that logic in my head and says damn those are cool Id love to fly one.

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A new seaplane to love.

135534988_14692817377601n.jpg

First AG600 off the line.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2016-07/23/c_135534988_2.htm

We can not allow a seaplane gap...

**************************************************

CCTV video on the AG600

 

Edited by Clark Griswold
just added video
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  • 1 month later...
13 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

Why do they get all those wonderful toys?

Because their population has no say (whether actual or perceived) in China's military spending?

 

And if we're gonna close the seaplane gap in a cost-efficient manner, we should just buy some ShinMaywa US-2s from our Japanese friends.

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Because their population has no say (whether actual or perceived) in China's military spending?

 

And if we're gonna close the seaplane gap in a cost-efficient manner, we should just buy some ShinMaywa US-2s from our Japanese friends.

True

US-2 would be cool, surprised the Coasties never tried to acquire it or a similar aircraft

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10 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

 

 

True

 

US-2 would be cool, surprised the Coasties never tried to acquire it or a similar aircraft

 

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The poor Coasties seem to be so underfunded that they could only get that in their wildest, 4-day-bender-in-Vegas dreams.  I've never understood why, if Homeland Security is our #1 priority, the Coast Guard is chronically underfunded. 

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5 hours ago, pbar said:

The poor Coasties seem to be so underfunded that they could only get that in their wildest, 4-day-bender-in-Vegas dreams.  I've never understood why, if Homeland Security is our #1 priority, the Coast Guard is chronically underfunded. 

No argument on that, as it is done at sea I think in some ways it is an out of sight out of mind thing for why the CG doesn't get the resourcing it needs.

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On 9/2/2016 at 2:25 AM, pbar said:

The poor Coasties seem to be so underfunded that they could only get that in their wildest, 4-day-bender-in-Vegas dreams.  I've never understood why, if Homeland Security is our #1 priority, the Coast Guard is chronically underfunded. 

 

On 9/2/2016 at 8:07 AM, Clark Griswold said:

No argument on that, as it is done at sea I think in some ways it is an out of sight out of mind thing for why the CG doesn't get the resourcing it needs.

Right now, CG is more worried about funding to actually operate the C-27J hand-me-downs and a few C-130J add-ons they've been gifted recently. New airframe acquisition will be on the back-burner for a long time.

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5 hours ago, HerkPerfMan said:

Right now, CG is more worried about funding to actually operate the C-27J hand-me-downs and a few C-130J add-ons they've been gifted recently. New airframe acquisition will be on the back-burner for a long time.

No doubt, saw an HC-27J a few months ago, looked good in Coastie colors but me still thinks the Guard should be flying it. 

There's a market and requirement for a common light tactical airlift in the US amongst the military & public safety agencies, ala the JCA.  Forest service, CG, Military and with some of our usual friends, too bad we couldn't heard all the cats together to settle on one.

Switching gears to Chinese airlift, saw the Y-30 concept, A400 clone or just inspired by?

Y-30+Transport+Aircraft_.jpg

Edited by Clark Griswold
food for thought
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19 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

No doubt, saw an HC-27J a few months ago, looked good in Coastie colors but me still thinks the Guard should be flying it. 

There's a market and requirement for a common light tactical airlift in the US amongst the military & public safety agencies, ala the JCA.  Forest service, CG, Military and with some of our usual friends, too bad we couldn't heard all the cats together to settle on one.

Switching gears to Chinese airlift, saw the Y-30 concept, A400 clone or just inspired by?

Y-30+Transport+Aircraft_.jpg

Form factor looks "inspired by" A400M but the early specs I've seen suggest a smaller size - more like 180,000 lb GW vs 260,000 lb for an A400M. The size may grow as the design matures to get it beyond the C-130 weight class. Not sure what they have in mind for engines, as that may also be a limiting factor on GW.

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4 hours ago, HerkPerfMan said:

Form factor looks "inspired by" A400M but the early specs I've seen suggest a smaller size - more like 180,000 lb GW vs 260,000 lb for an A400M. The size may grow as the design matures to get it beyond the C-130 weight class. Not sure what they have in mind for engines, as that may also be a limiting factor on GW.

Copy that. 

Aviation Week says it will be in the 30 ton payload class with 5000 HP motors, with a wider body than a Y-9 or the 130. 

http://aviationweek.com/defense/new-chinese-airlifter-could-enter-service-2020s

I guess they passed on the An-70 with propfans for the benefit of their domestic aviation base development.

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