Jump to content
gearpig

Leaving the Air Force for the Airlines

Recommended Posts

On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Hacker said:

To be fair, the regionals aren't the only place with stupid-pilot-tricks.

Slide8.JPG

 

Just verifying the squat switch works. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 11:11 AM, HuggyU2 said:

I was at the Reno Races on Friday, and was in a conversation with 3 other guys that were airline pilots:  all three were former Navs, and none of them had done the military pilot transition. 

 

On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 5:28 PM, LJDRVR said:

I hear there are even enlisted shoe clerks in the left seat at the legacy carriers.

 

23 hours ago, LJDRVR said:

Me too! 

See, and you guys thought you were something special:beer:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On September 19, 2017 at 6:28 PM, LJDRVR said:

I hear there are even enlisted shoe clerks in the left seat at the legacy carriers.

A SSgt from my Guard base was my seat fill captain for a few sims during training at a regional.   He's already at Delta and could easily hold Captain...still junior to me though!  Whew!  I think he has since left the Guard.  Probably a smart call...counting down the days myself.

Edited by SocialD
spellin gooder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone have any good or bad experiences they can share in revealing to your AD leadership that you intend to separate (showing your cards)?  For those of us who are intent on separating and are still a few years out, it feels like we have an eternity remaining on our AD sentence.  I am ready to be done pretending and conveying to leadership that I care about this AD career advancement game.  My goal would be to finish out my last few years in the squadron so I can continue flying and instructing regularly, and to also avoid getting stuck with a non-flying deployment.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On one side of the line you have zero to gain (and possibly a lot to lose) from telling your CC any earlier than a week or so before he'll be seeing paperwork pop up for his signature.  On the other side of the line, you may screw a bro over if you hold your cards too long.  I think it should be fairly evident when you are approaching the line...tell your boss before you cross the line.  It's the right thing to do, and in general said line is certainly not multiple years out from separation.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be very careful. Agree with Brabus, "a couple years out" is too far to show your cards. Maybe inside a year, two at the max. I know as soon as I showed my cards, I randomly ended up with a six-month vacation to Iraq. Funny how that happened...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wear a Che shirt and support communism on the inside of your cover, you'll be out quick!

 

Oh yeah, fuck that guy.

Edited by matmacwc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or you'll get #1/20 in the Communist Company Grade Officer Council! Led airmen to their full potential!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, mhunt2370 said:

Does anyone have any good or bad experiences they can share in revealing to your AD leadership that you intend to separate (showing your cards)?  For those of us who are intent on separating and are still a few years out, it feels like we have an eternity remaining on our AD sentence.  I am ready to be done pretending and conveying to leadership that I care about this AD career advancement game.  My goal would be to finish out my last few years in the squadron so I can continue flying and instructing regularly, and to also avoid getting stuck with a non-flying deployment.

My experience was good, though I agree with what has been said above and I probably spoke too soon.  I was four years from my UPT ADSC when I made it known to my leadership that I was 100% sure I was separating.  I even listed and discussed all the reasons I wanted out without sugar coating it, and starting going to graduate school for my next career.  My sq/cc was fine with it really and basically just nodded and said "ok."  He didn't treat me any different, even sent me to "good" jobs at the Wing and OGV.  Lo and behold, that led to an assignment that was on the very short list of assignments that I would've accepted instead of separation.  So, turns out I was only 99% sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, mhunt2370 said:

Does anyone have any good or bad experiences they can share in revealing to your AD leadership that you intend to separate (showing your cards)?  For those of us who are intent on separating and are still a few years out, it feels like we have an eternity remaining on our AD sentence.  I am ready to be done pretending and conveying to leadership that I care about this AD career advancement game.  My goal would be to finish out my last few years in the squadron so I can continue flying and instructing regularly, and to also avoid getting stuck with a non-flying deployment.

I was 2 years out and showed them my hand by interviewing with a guard unit...here I sit at the Deid for 6-months. If you have a CC that you very much trust and you're confident in their abilities/desires to support you in your endeavors, then go for it. Wouldn't advertise it on a neon sign though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.  I am ready to be done pretending and conveying to leadership that I care about this AD career advancement game.  My goal would be to finish out my last few years in the squadron so I can continue flying and instructing regularly, and to also avoid getting stuck with a non-flying deployment.


I’d caution against showing your cards before you absolutely have to. A shitty commander might give you a crap job, no strat, or a shitty deployment out of spite. Even a good commander might give you a crap job, no strat, or shitty deployment to avoid having to give it to someone who is on the fence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree with all the others, don't show your cards. You can't just kick back and ride out the next few years. You have to work hard to play either their game or your own. I've found in the AF, intent is worth almost as much as achievement in the eyes of many. You'll be surprised what you can achieve by enthusiastically demonstrating an intent to play their career advancement game while never actually playing it and quietly working to meet your career goals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a non-flyer we've got "showing the hand" issues as well.  I said I "was retirement eligible in 2 years" to the wrong person--no strat on OPR.  I may not be in the top 5 of my organization, but I'm in the top 10, 15 at the very least.  Corrected that statement in future discussions--made a candidate list.  Staying in is really not my decision, I've done my 20+, now the family gets the vote.

If nothing else the lack of strat situation illustrated how stupid the games we allow to be played are, how much O5+'s will go to justify wrong behavior/actions of peers/superiors, and how much I love my Airmen in my current assignment.  Every one of them came to commiserate with me when they found out.  It was...strange, but I really appreciated it after the work I put in (not X-mas party planning).

Wife, who was forced to separate so we wouldn't spend 18+ months apart until AFPC "could look at getting us together," was livid.  She actually said, "How could you want to command for people like this?" after I told her I wanted to lead a Sq.  If I get pinged for the only 365 "leadership opportunity" the family going to be disinclined to ride out whatever comes so I can Sq/CC.  Even if there's a "good deal" after the remote.

We've also had numerous times where Capt's say they're getting out--deployment.  Even where Lt's/Capt's are getting ready to PCS, and because they're not staying in the unit they don't get put in for some advanced training that was lined up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’d even go as far to caution against asking specifically for jobs that will look good to the airlines.  Someone I knew told his CC he wanted to be chief of safety -> Stan/Evan -> ADO.  The CC was like “what are you trying to do, butter up your airline resume??”  An older CC of mine also got super sensitive about the G word along with the A word.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, brabus said:

On the other side of the line, you may screw a bro over if you hold your cards too long. 

may screw over a bro??  Pushing the blame on me because I'm looking out for me and my family is misguided.  It's akin to a gunman holding a gun to a hostage... and blaming the police if the hostage gets shot because they didn't comply with the demands.  

Those that feel they are getting a raw deal aren't leaving the AF because they are getting screwed over by their "bros".  It's because of the AF's policies and actions.  Not mine.  

Fortunately, my experience in the U-2 Program was one of very supportive and understanding commanders that didn't act vindictively towards those whose intent to separate was known. 

 

 

Edited by HuggyU2
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In all it depends, I showed my cards about 2 years before I could get out to a supportive commander and OG, they made calls for me and gave me jets to rush units.  Their idea was at least I was still serving in the ANG.  I also had the AF by the balls and I knew it, 1st pilot training class of the 10 year commitment so the ANG was begging for people, they hadn't had a lot of people show up during the 8-10 year commitment wait.  My commitment lined up perfectly as well, so what I'm saying is, YMMV.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

12 hours ago, gearpig said:

Agree with all the others, don't show your cards. You can't just kick back and ride out the next few years. You have to work hard to play either their game or your own. I've found in the AF, intent is worth almost as much as achievement in the eyes of many. You'll be surprised what you can achieve by enthusiastically demonstrating an intent to play their career advancement game while never actually playing it and quietly working to meet your career goals.

This. Also know what your CC supports and so it may depend where you work (Sq v OG v Wg)...I've seen senior Capts/Majs show their cards 2+ yrs out to a great Sq/CC who helped work with them on their transition to ANG/civilian life, but they certainly pulled their weight for the Sq as EPs/ADOs etc until separation.

 I've also seen a Wg Maj show his cards inside 1.5 yrs and was short noticed to a 6 month desk deployment, strats removed from the OPR, and landed himself back at the Sq flying nights only for the last months until his DOS (tanker dude with both a bad Wg and Sq CCs at the time). Those are the extremes. You probably fall somewhere in the middle. Wait till inside 1yr to 6 months if you want to be conservative and avoid the farewell desk deployment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/30/2017 at 3:06 PM, mhunt2370 said:

Does anyone have any good or bad experiences they can share in revealing to your AD leadership that you intend to separate (showing your cards)?  For those of us who are intent on separating and are still a few years out, it feels like we have an eternity remaining on our AD sentence.  I am ready to be done pretending and conveying to leadership that I care about this AD career advancement game.  My goal would be to finish out my last few years in the squadron so I can continue flying and instructing regularly, and to also avoid getting stuck with a non-flying deployment.

You really don't have much to gain by showing cards. You also are quite a ways out. You could change your mind later (family reasons, airline industry tanks, get opportunity for that dream assignment you've always wanted, lose ability to hold class 1, etc) but have closed the door to any career advancement in A.D.

What I would do is pretend you want to be a G.O. and tell your bosses you want school, promotion etc. Do PME and play the game but at the same time ensure you stay flying, build your airline network, beef up your airline resume etc. That way you preserve your options to the very last minute.  More work that way but safer in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, nrodgsxr said:

tell your bosses you want school, promotion etc. Do PME and play the game but at the same time ensure you stay flying,

Those two are often mutually exclusive.  Great as long as your words just earn you the right strats, but most of the "right" jobs keep you current at best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have to be just good enough to be useful, but not so good that you get called up for school/staff/etc. it’s a fine line. 

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, HossHarris said:

You have to be just good enough to be useful, but not so good that you get called up for school/staff/etc. it’s a fine line. 

A line you masterfully negotiated.  Well played Hoss, well played.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, HossHarris said:

You have to be just good enough to be useful, but not so good that you get called up for school/staff/etc. it’s a fine line. 

Where was this advice a couple of years ago. Ugh.

For real though, it's a fine line. I stayed too close and found myself picked up for school as a candidate (thanks to the mass exodus most likely) and now 3-years non-flying at an AOC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Where was this advice a couple of years ago. Ugh.
For real though, it's a fine line. I stayed too close and found myself picked up for school as a candidate (thanks to the mass exodus most likely) and now 3-years non-flying at an AOC.

#humblebrag
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×