Opinions on C-17 v KC-10 (as well as bases?)

[Rake47]

Gentlemen (and ladies). 13-13 drop just came out not too long ago and we've got 2 days to turn in dream sheets. I've done about as much online research as I can (including this site), as well as spoken to quite a few C-17/KC-10 pilots in my squadron (there are no FREDs in my drop).

The general consensus I'm getting is that KC-10s are, overall, the way to go regardless of what base you go to.

Right now my top 4 are:

1. KC-10 : Travis

2. KC-10 : McGuire

3. C-17 : Charleston

4. C-17 : McChord

Like I said, there are no C-5s and those are the only two C-17 bases available. Thoughts/comments/suggestions on C-17 v KC-10 and how to order the bases (I'm particularly interested in how fellow conservative gun owners have been affected by only having Cali and Jersey as locations in the 10)?

Thanks and safe flying!

[TarHeelPilot]

Irrelevant; You're going to FAIP.

[joe1234]

Well, you see, one is a tanker, and one is an airlifter. So if you want to pass gas, haul cargo, and haul pax, choose the 10. If you want to haul cargo and pax and not give gas, choose the 17. Yes, it really is that simple.

That was easy. Next question!

[jazzdude]

Not Charleston

[mcbush]

Not Charleston

As a brand new co-pirate currently inbound to SC, say reason?

[Rake47]

Irrelevant; You're going to FAIP.

No way. Definitely not a good fit for FAIP. Nope definitely not. Nooope!

Well, you see, one is a tanker, and one is an airlifter. So if you want to pass gas, haul cargo, and haul pax, choose the 10. If you want to haul cargo and pax and not give gas, choose the 17. Yes, it really is that simple.

That was easy. Next question!

Next question: Travis or Mcguire? (I know i'll eventually get to both as a 10 guy but as a first assignment)

Not Charleston

I keep hearing this. Any particular reasons why?

Edited July 23, 2013 by DINO

[JarheadBoom]

Since you're using it as a discriminator...

WRI - Live in PA, commute to the Quagmire (as little as 30min drive); avoid NJ at all other times. NJ gun laws do not affect you.

SUU - Can't really live outside CA as an AD guy. CA gun laws own you.

[Rake47]

Since you're using it as a discriminator...

WRI - Live in PA, commute to the Quagmire (as little as 30min drive); avoid NJ at all other times. NJ gun laws do not affect you.

SUU - Can't really live outside CA as an AD guy. CA gun laws own you.

That's an awesome nugget. Thanks! I'll do some research on PA gun laws. Any chance you know how the reasonably located housing in PA compares to closer locations in NJ?

[lj35driver]

Not Charleston

As a brand new co-pirate currently inbound to SC, say reason?

Ditto, stay the fvck away from CHS. Great location, but its got some problems that aren't for a public forum.

[WheelsOff]

Ditto, stay the fvck away from CHS. Great location, but its got some problems that aren't for a public forum.

2, and I'd probably say the same for TCM. I'd avoid both like the plague if I could, but it sounds like you don't have that option unfortunately. Single squadron C-17 bases are much better from what I hear, but based on your limited choices, I'd say KC-10s are the way to go.

Edit: Wanted to reiterate what others have said below...pick your jet based on the mission. However I still stand by my statement regarding superbase politics; I feel that UPT guys should have fair warning on the matter (it WILL affect you). But all that queep aside, both jets are deployed/TDY frequently, go cool places, and have good missions...just pick based on what type of flying appeals to you more. Best of luck!

Edited July 23, 2013 by WheelsOff

[C-21.Pilot]

If you are picking your dream sheet based on location, then you are already way behind....

Kinda reminds me of a time when guys would "jump for joy" when the "awesome" KC-135 to McDill would drop down, celebrate, then be pissed at the system for sending them to Grand Forks for an assignment...

Bottom line - choose the MISSION you want to fly. The ONLY differing mission is airdrop vs. refueling. However, look at ops tempo (can and will change) and deployment locations (not likely to change).

P.S. - I've been stationed at CHS and TCM, and have been to every other AMC base out there. I would go to and be very happy with CHS in a heartbeat (you can do your own search on CHS). I loved the Pacific NW and would love to go back there as well...don't forget, Hickam and Elmendorf are potential assignements later down the road.

I've never flown the KC-10, but plenty of folks say it's the best thing since sliced bread. As a former C-17 driver, I loved the mission and diversity of Barney, but the TDY tempo took it's toll (avg about 300 days a year during a 5 yr stretch several years ago). Big picture, once you leave UPT - the airframe and community you choose will be the best fit for you.

Don't know why folks think a single squadron C-17 base is better....baffles me actually.

If it is a leadership thing, screw that -- you won't deal with that. Leadership problems are typically cyclical from poor to great.

Edited July 23, 2013 by C-21.Pilot

[jazzdude]

I keep hearing this. Any particular reasons why?

The area is great when you're home. However, Charleston doesn't seem to ever say no to anything, and it definitely feels like there's a lot of people out here trying to make general.

I'd say my first two years were good-but now I'm just plain burnt out at the 3.5 year mark. I love the mission and the the -17, especially doing airdrop, but am tired of the office politics and queep. Might as well start on your masters if you haven't already, since that seems to be much more important than flying the jet out here.

Maybe your experience might be different than mine, but I'd say TCM is probably the better of the 2 superbases.

[WheelsOff]

Don't know why folks think a single squadron C-17 base is better....baffles me actually.

This:

it definitely feels like there's a lot of people out here trying to make general...

...tired of the office politics and queep. Might as well start on your masters if you haven't already, since that seems to be much more important than flying the jet out here.

Edited July 23, 2013 by WheelsOff

[Fuzz]

17s to McChord all the way, great leadership, good focus on training (great for new guys), seems to be a way more relaxed atmosphere than what I hear from my friends at CHS.

[Recut]

If you want to be tactical such as flying low-level, doing assault landings, NVG ops, etc pick the C-17. You will also have a chance to travel the world.

If you'd rather focus on the civilian-based airframe, fly circles and tracks, pick the KC-10. They travel, too but I will just say that I have been places I'd never have had the opportunity to see otherwise by flying the 17. Every 10 person I know loves it and every 17 pilot I know loves it, too.

As someone said earlier, pick the jet based on mission - there is probably going to be a level of BS in every job you will ever have.

[Azimuth]

Tankers do more than just AR. I've done HR, AE, START treaty missions, etc in the tanker (-135) and have gone to a lot more cooler places than most would think. The -10 will do more Dual Role missions due to their cargo/passenger capability.

[Recut]

Not dogging on tankers in any way. What I was trying to say was pick based on core mission. Tankers definitely do more than AR but the core mission is AR. 17s core mission is to take stuff from A-B often tactically and do AR on the way. Both cool, just different core missions.

[Lord Ratner]

I'll be the voice of dissent and say choose the location. But I am personally more concerned with the lifestyle than I am with the mission. You'll be serving your country honorably either way.

BUT, I didn't come to this point of view until after my FAIP tour, where I got huge amounts of perspective from C-17, KC-10, C-5, etc guys who had BTDT. I never understood why, but for some reason IPs never tell the studs their true feelings about airframes, assignments, etc. Maybe because they don't listen anyways.

That being said, I was devastated when they FAIP'd me, purely because I hated the location. Turned out to be the greatest time I could have imagined. Great flying, great people, and despite what so many (clueless) people say, minimal queep (especially for a FAIP).

I guess the moral of the story is: what you think you want is wrong, but by the time you figure it out, it won't matter. Things change too fast to game it anyways. Figure out what your goals are in the near term, and try to knock them out. For me, I wanted to see the world, so of course, they kept me in Mississippi. Yet here I am now, living in England. You'll be fine either way.

[Techsan]

Real men fly KC-10s. Big Sexy can give gas, receive gas, and haul cargo & pax all in one sortie on your way to Hawaii. Then once you arrive, you break for a myriad of reasons & then enjoy Mai Tais @ the Outrigger the rest of the week while you await parts.

I won't mention though the numerous deployments to the same base flying 10 hr sorties in the middle of the night hoping that a B-1 will come take 70K so you can make breakfast @ the DFAC.

C-17s are cool too though. I hear they get to land on some REALLY short runways...like that one near MacDill.

[bbj77]

Don't worry about it now, things will be different by the time your FAIP tour is over. Plenty of time to change change your mind then.

[joe1234]

I'll be the voice of dissent and say choose the location. But I am personally more concerned with the lifestyle than I am with the mission. You'll be serving your country honorably either way.

BUT, I didn't come to this point of view until after my FAIP tour, where I got huge amounts of perspective from C-17, KC-10, C-5, etc guys who had BTDT. I never understood why, but for some reason IPs never tell the studs their true feelings about airframes, assignments, etc. Maybe because they don't listen anyways.

That being said, I was devastated when they FAIP'd me, purely because I hated the location. Turned out to be the greatest time I could have imagined. Great flying, great people, and despite what so many (clueless) people say, minimal queep (especially for a FAIP).

I guess the moral of the story is: what you think you want is wrong, but by the time you figure it out, it won't matter. Things change too fast to game it anyways. Figure out what your goals are in the near term, and try to knock them out. For me, I wanted to see the world, so of course, they kept me in Mississippi. Yet here I am now, living in England. You'll be fine either way.

Here's what you're not realizing about the location vs mission thing: yes you're living in England right now, which is great, congratulations. But you'll be there for 3, 4 years tops, and then you move on and almost certainly never go back, and now you're stuck with your MWS wherever in the world that may take you for the rest of your career, assuming you don't get out immediately or manage to crosstrain. If you enjoy your mission, then I guess you hit the jackpot.

Picking based off a location is just shortsighted when one must take into account that they have 2 more assignments left until their commitment is done. I think it's funny how some studs brag about getting their first choice in UPT to some exotic location, and then in 5 years they're posting on Facebook about how they eventually wound up at a place they were trying to avoid anyway.

[WeatherManC130]

FIFY

If you want to be non-tactical such as flying FL340, landing short of assault zones, landing gear up, landing at the wrong airport, etc pick the C-17. You will also have a chance to travel the world.

[Buddy Spike]

Here's what you're not realizing about the location vs mission thing: yes you're living in England right now, which is great, congratulations. But you'll be there for 3, 4 years tops, and then you move on and almost certainly never go back, and now you're stuck with your MWS wherever in the world that may take you for the rest of your career, assuming you don't get out immediately or manage to crosstrain. If you enjoy your mission, then I guess you hit the jackpot.

Picking based off a location is just shortsighted when one must take into account that they have 2 more assignments left until their commitment is done. I think it's funny how some studs brag about getting their first choice in UPT to some exotic location, and then in 5 years they're posting on Facebook about how they eventually wound up at a place they were trying to avoid anyway.

What is your job in the military?

[HU&W]

Perhaps picking by location could be considered shortsighted, but picking something that has all good locations isn't a bad plan. Also, the mission you think you want out of UPT could be very different than the one you love (or are interested in doing) a few years afterward.

[Majestik Møøse]

- C-17s are newer and nicer with lots of trick avionics and a HUD. KC-10s have mostly original 1977 avionics with a few upgrades and a few more coming. The C-17 is fly by wire with a lot of weird modes that seem to make guys lose their hand-flying skills a bit. Hand-flying the KC-10 is like any other traditional plane.

- KC-10s have a very flexible mission. On a typical desert sortie, 2/3 of our ops are figured out on the fly. This gives us a lot of opportunity to use SA to make things better (or worse) in real time. We can refuel any jet in the AOR including ourselves which gives a lot of operational possibilities. C-17s fly the magenta line from point A to point B, but they sometimes get to fly it at low level with NVGs to an assault landing. Both can be fun in their own way. KC-10s fly formation on every local and on many operational missions. Operational C-17 receiver AR is really rare.

- C-17s seem to have a harder life on the road from the outside looking in. Their fatigue level is reflected in the incidents they've had.

- There are 2 KC-10 bases. Your follow-on assignment options will be to go to the other base or to UPT/UAV then to the other base, followed by whatever path you choose in life. I have no idea how C-17 follow-one go.

Edit for stupid small iPhone buttons

Edited July 23, 2013 by Majestik Møøse