moosepileit Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Downgrading automation, or "Clicking it off" is a 2-heeded hydra. 1- You know what you want- but the automation isn't going to cut it - ATC ammends your altitude and the automation won't capture an altitude that you know you can by hand without hurting anyone or breaking anything. click, click, pull/push. What the book doesn't explain, in a crew jet, is the CRM during and after- PM, rebuild the FMAs so the F/D matches what you are doing, reautomate as desired. 2- The learning curve- What happened to the ?....- Click, click, stabilize. Take a second and figure it out. Remember you are in the new plane, not the last one or last model... Verbalize the desired fix to the inputs so the FMAs and F/Ds match the phase, reautomate as desired. There is a way to do either and not look like a newb. There is the other way- which winds up with the PF gazing through the "bad" or old FMAs and F/D inputs, trying to fly a fancy T-37. CRM can be smooth, and is probably somewhere around chapter 5 of your MDS vol 3. ie- "Copilot, Altitude Hold, engage heading 270, speed 250 on thrust." Want to hand fly? Fine- with or without flight directors, get further ahead of the aircraft w/ the collective S/A, you will be using the PM more, so think ahead so each request is a one time good deal. Haven't seen a mishap yet that didnt' have a lesson for me. Gets more "interesting" when the PM is running 2 radios and the slowdown or postdrop checklist- hence why we train more than the airlines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur38 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 It was sunny and clear, so my guess is that he caught some sun reflecting off a another aircraft, maybe the one in front of him on approach. Its my guess that he was quibbiling; trying to save face. Asaiana just released the names of the pilots of 214: Captain Sum Ting Wong; Line Check Airman Wi To Lo; FO: Ho Lee Fuk; FO: Bang Ding Ow 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgruntledemployee Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 P: Blinded by the light... CP: Wrapped up like a dusche... P: Its not dusche as in dusche bag, its duce. CP: Wrapped up like a duce? WTF does that mean? P: Its not wrapped up, its revved up. So why would wrapped up like a dusche mean anything? CP: Some people get all wrapped up in their duschery, oh and your 30 knots slow. P: 30 knots slow? Is that some sort of bar drinking pilot song? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJDRVR Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Is it normal to have this much information being released in the midst of an investigation before the NTSB reaches a final conclusion? No it isn't. ALPA has commented publicly on how this is not the NTSB's normal MO. My personal opinion? Deborah Herseman is a political animal and is under pressure to throw the pilots under the bus ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 No it isn't. ALPA has commented publicly on how this is not the NTSB's normal MO. My personal opinion? Deborah Herseman is a political animal and is under pressure to throw the pilots under the bus ASAP. If you go here you can see all the current NTSB investigations. http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/current.html Quoted from the NTSB website, At least once daily during the on-scene phase of an investigation, one of the five Members of the Safety Board itself, who accompanies the team, briefs the media on the latest factual information developed by the team. While a career investigator runs the inquiry as Investigator-in-Charge, the Board Member is the primary spokesperson for the investigation. A public affairs officer also maintains contact with the media. Confirmed, factual information is released. There is no speculation over cause. Sounds like SOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEVIL Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 http://www.curacaochronicle.com/aviation/email-from-a-united-crew-holding-short-of-the-runway-as-the-asiana-b-777-approached/ This got me thinking, and I'm not trying to put any blame on any of the airplanes holding short, but how out-of-whack would it be for one of the jet on the ground to key up the mic and give a "On final go around!" call? Would the plane on final even go around? All those Mk 1 eyeballs on the ground have enough experience to see an unsafe situation developing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B52gator Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 P: Blinded by the light... CP: Wrapped up like a dusche... P: Its not dusche as in dusche bag, its duce. CP: Wrapped up like a duce? WTF does that mean? P: Its not wrapped up, its revved up. So why would wrapped up like a dusche mean anything? CP: Some people get all wrapped up in their duschery, oh and your 30 knots slow. P: 30 knots slow? Is that some sort of bar drinking pilot song? Springsteen > Disgruntled Employee > Manfred Mann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/10/asiana-flight-214-ntsb-pilot-blinded/2507059/ "Federal crash investigators revealed Wednesday that the pilot flying Asiana Airlines flight 214 told them that he was temporarily blinded by a bright light when 500 feet above the ground." Must have been those damn sharks with laser beams attached to their foreheads in the Bay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgruntledemployee Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 http://www.curacaoch...777-approached/ This got me thinking, and I'm not trying to put any blame on any of the airplanes holding short, but how out-of-whack would it be for one of the jet on the ground to key up the mic and give a "On final go around!" call? Would the plane on final even go around? All those Mk 1 eyeballs on the ground have enough experience to see an unsafe situation developing... If they were watching. Didn't plane holding short state they needed a few more minutes from the tower audio? I'm guessing that they were doing their own thing to get ready to go, not watching another of a thousand landings. Out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEVIL Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I'm not saying this jet should have, but if someone did notice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearDownNoGreen Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I'm not saying this jet should have, but if someone did notice... If someone did notice... then what? Is the onus on them to say something? By letter of the law, no. But if you want to Monday Morning Quarterback it and say, "Why didn't anyone on the ground say anything!?" I think that's just a pretty reactionary response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEVIL Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 http://www.curacaoch...777-approached/ This got me thinking, and I'm not trying to put any blame on any of the airplanes holding short, but how out-of-whack would it be for one of the jet on the ground to key up the mic and give a "On final go around!" call? Would the plane on final even go around? All those Mk 1 eyeballs on the ground have enough experience to see an unsafe situation developing... No where does that say "Why didn't anyone say anything?!". I just wanted to know if that is a thing that would ever happen, forget this situation, big flock of birds on final, you're holding short, do you tell the jet on final to go around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slander Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I think we should put RSUs at every airport to monitor aircraft configuration and approaches on final. Pilots who are waiting on reserve can sit in them and the young guys flying RJs will have great networking opportunities with senior captains from other airlines. ...(/sarcasm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEVIL Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Maybe at -17 bases 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayton Bigsby Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Deborah Hersman is a political animal and is under pressure to throw the pilots under the bus ASAP. This, sevenfold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepileit Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) United crew holding short did call a go around, the LiveATC feed has a go around call not by tower just before skywest is sent around. edited for clarity. Edited July 12, 2013 by moosepileit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catbox Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I'm curious if anyone knows (or has an idea) why it burned the way it did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 I'm curious if anyone knows (or has an idea) why it burned the way it did? Because it was on fire. Ha ha, most likely oxygen feed. Burned right along the top where the emergency oxygen lines are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky_king Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Great. Now I'm going to have SAPR style, "I'm responsible for other people's accidents", training incorporated into my flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Spike Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) Great. Now I'm going to have SAPR style, "I'm responsible for other people's accidents", training incorporated into my flying. Active holdshorter intervention program Edited July 12, 2013 by Buddy Spike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YC Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Teen was in fact run over by fire truck. Unclear if alive or dead when it happened though... http://news.yahoo.com/police-teen-asiana-crash-hit-fire-truck-164953414.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky_king Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Its my guess that he was quibbiling; trying to save face. Asaiana just released the names of the pilots of 214: Captain Sum Ting Wong; Line Check Airman Wi To Lo; FO: Ho Lee Fuk; FO: Bang Ding Ow I think you may have been a "source" for the news. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techsan Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I think she pronounced Ho Lee Fuk wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur38 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) The 2013 Emmy award for TV news goes to....."dwum ro pease" : KTVU News San Francisco/Oakland CA!!! :beer: I think you may have been a "source" for the news. Edited July 12, 2013 by Spur38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur38 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) Not exactly correct: “Being first on air and on every platform in all aspects of our coverage was a great accomplishment, but being 100% accurate, effectively using our great sources and social media without putting a single piece of erroneous information on our air, is what we are most proud of as a newsroom,” said Lee Rosenthal, KTVU News Director. Edited July 12, 2013 by Spur38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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