pawnman Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 You DO realize you don't have to follow a religion for that to hold true? C'mon man... As an individual, you have a right in this country not to subscribe to that philosophy. An individual may benefit from moral order and unalienable rights around which society functions while still rejecting their Divine origin. However, the civil society cannot organize itself that way. We're not talking about America becoming a theocracy, dude. The founders refused to build this country on the basis of the abandonment of "Natural Law" because doing so would lead to tyranny in one form or another. This is especially fitting today: "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor." So other than societal agreement or divine inspiration, where do you think morals come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAG Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 You DO realize you don't have to follow a religion for that to hold true? C'mon man... I guess you don't.... ever heard of deism? A little research on Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin might help you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I guess you don't.... ever heard of deism? A little research on Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin might help you out. Deism still implies that morals come from God. And since Jefferson and Franklin were both slave owners who saw no reason to grant rights to anyone who wasn't a white landowner, it's interesting you hold them up as examples of unchanging ethical standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAG Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) Deism still implies that morals come from God. And since Jefferson and Franklin were both slave owners who saw no reason to grant rights to anyone who wasn't a white landowner, it's interesting you hold them up as examples of unchanging ethical standards. It's interesting how you always fall back on slavery: http://www.npr.org/2...opposed-slavery Your argument is tired and your moral philosophy does not work as a guideline for a civil society. Our founding fathers knew this but you mock and reject them. I question your commitment to the Constitution of the United States and the principles upon which this country was founded. True, you are an American citizen, but you are anything but patriotic. ... and this debate is tired too. I'm done. "Man will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants." - Benjamin Franklin "We have grown in numbers, wealth and power, as no other nation has ever grown. But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace, and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us; and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us!" - Abraham Lincoln Edited July 5, 2013 by WAG 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe1234 Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 We could only be so lucky that this thread would just DIE. Yeah, it's a shame that someone is holding a gun to your head threatening to execute you if you don't constantly read and update this thread every day. Oh wait 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Yeah, it's a shame that someone is holding a gun to your head threatening to execute you if you don't constantly read and update this thread every day. Oh wait I keep returning to see if someone would comment on the original post. Not to see arguments about how morals are based with quotes from the bible and philosophers. For those of you with a commission, seeing something that is not allowed is a responsibility to correct on the spot. Not bitch about the failure of some NCO or junior officer who lets this happen. And by that I mean allowing a guy in uniform to have a goatee and nail polish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I keep returning to see if someone would comment on the original post. Not to see arguments about how morals are based with quotes from the bible and philosophers. For those of you with a commission, seeing something that is not allowed is a responsibility to correct on the spot. Not bitch about the failure of some NCO or junior officer who lets this happen. And by that I mean allowing a guy in uniform to have a goatee and nail polish. Well, I think we addressed that issue and we've moved into a larger discussion about what the repeal of DADT and the striking down of DOMA may mean for the future force. Do you just want a thread of people going "2" and "You're right" when it comes to addressing uniform infractions? It's interesting how you always fall back on slavery: http://www.npr.org/2...opposed-slavery Your argument is tired and your moral philosophy does not work as a guideline for a civil society. Our founding fathers knew this but you mock and reject them. I question your commitment to the Constitution of the United States and the principles upon which this country was founded. True, you are an American citizen, but you are anything but patriotic. ... and this debate is tired too. I'm done. "Man will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants." - Benjamin Franklin "We have grown in numbers, wealth and power, as no other nation has ever grown. But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace, and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us; and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us!" - Abraham Lincoln Mock whatever you want. I'm pointing out that even the founding fathers realized societal standards changed, so they gave us the means to change the constitution as required...something we've done A LOT. You can claim there's some almighty source for morals and ethics if you want. I just think it's interesting that many cultures have arrived at very similar ethical and moral standards without the guidance of Yahweh. That implies to me that it is an evolutionary impetus, not a God-inspired one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Do you just want a thread of people going "2" and "You're right" when it comes to addressing uniform No - you are welcome to have all the esoteric discussions ya want. I simply find it boring. The thread on drindls is much more entertaining and time better spent. (By the way - M2 - thank you!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 No - you are welcome to have all the esoteric discussions ya want. I simply find it boring. The thread on drindls is much more entertaining and time better spent. (By the way - M2 - thank you!) I suppose I can only re-emphasize that if the thread is that boring, you don't have to keep checking on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M2 Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 The thread on drindls is much more entertaining and time better spent. (By the way - M2 - thank you!) Honestly, I can't believe people are actually spending any time arguing about this when the awesome dirndls thread is where the real action is! Maybe that in and of itself says something... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Fist Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 I know this is my second post however, this thread is absolutely miserable. We went from airmen in uniform prancing around in nail polish and finely groomed goatees, to Indian, Mexican, French constitution amendments and Star Trek gifs, . These are probably the top things that I could give the least amount of shits over. Seriously, in that order. (Minus the nail polish and finely groomed goatees in uniform. That shit still pisses me off that it's even up for discussion.) For the love of sweet baby Japanese Jesus please make it stop! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJDRVR Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) What the hell is wrong with you idiot officers? Nine pages of semantics about your feelings and blah, blah, blah... When you are told by the NCA that openly gay people may serve, you salute smartly, STFU and get back to work. You're aren't paid to have an opinion. You are however, paid to enforce standards. Uniform standards. A male wearing nail polish? What's that got to do with his sexual orientation? (Which is none of your business, BTW.) You guys cry about the idiot shoe clerk NCO who called you out on something silly like PT gear, but you'll let slide facial hair and black fingnail polish? Drag the little dirtbag into his SNCO or commander's office and correct the situation on the spot. Explain to both parties present how dissapointed you are that the most basic of grooming regulations are being so blatantly disregarded. Give the little shit a lawful order to go home and fix it and explain to all the next time you see the young man out of uniform you'll have him arrested. What's become of the USAF I served in? Max, have years of high altitude airline flying rotted my brain? Isn't this how we used to do things? Edited July 11, 2013 by LJDRVR 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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