Herk hard landing - Afghanistan

[Crown]

These hard landings seem to happen all too often in the C-17 and C-130 communities. I believe it shows how the airlift communities as a whole are completely disconnected from the rest of AF aviation. When was the last time you heard about this in the fighter or tanker communities?

I'm guessing sarcasm? If not then you've never been in a one of these aircraft for a zero illumination AMP-4 landing on a 60 ft wide (or less) dirt strip. Not to mention the avg. number of landings per flight hour logged in airlift type aircraft compared to fighters or tankers...kinda like saying fighters have more air-to-air collisions so they must be disconnected from AF Aviation.

I'm done.

[Guest USAFFlyBoy]

I haven't heard of a fighter or tanker flying into a thunderstorm and flaming out 4 engines, or landing gear up because Johnny Tactical felt the need to fly a tactical approach while tankers follow a simple ILS, or any other community within the AF (fighters, tankers, ISR...you name it) landing on a wrong runway that is 1/3 the length it should be. Are you saying this is normal?

[Crown]

As I feared...not sarcasm.

[mcbush]

...or landing gear up because Johnny Tactical felt the need to fly a tactical approach...

He goes by Tommy, actually.

[Guest USAFFlyBoy]

Ah, Tommy...my mistake. Johnny landed on the runway edge lighting

[Hugo Stiglitz]

These hard landings seem to happen all too often in the C-17 and C-130 communities. I believe it shows how the airlift communities as a whole are completely disconnected from the rest of AF aviation. When was the last time you heard about this in the fighter or tanker communities?

I smell a troll. This happened at Shank. When exactly did you see a tanker fly the ILS into there? Gear up/wrong airport landings have happened before, and probably will keep happening too, as long as toolbags keep thinking their tribe is too smart or too good to do something retarded.

[moosepileit]

I think the press is amongst us, trolling.

Uber ban, requested.

[HU&W]

I haven't heard of a fighter or tanker flying into a thunderstorm and flaming out 4 engines, or landing gear up because Johnny Tactical felt the need to fly a tactical approach while tankers follow a simple ILS, or any other community within the AF (fighters, tankers, ISR...you name it) landing on a wrong runway that is 1/3 the length it should be. Are you saying this is normal?

Great line of thinking for limiting perceived hazards. Let's also limit fighters to 60 degrees of bank and stop tankers from flying in close proximity to other aircraft.

Also, I've noticed you like to troll almost every thread you post in. KIO.

[Hueypilot]

I have yet to see a fighter or tanker fly into a FOB like Shank, Sharana, Tarin Kowt or other similar location. Congrats for outing yourself as an idiot.

[Champ Kind]

I will ask this though... Is there any reason that a fresh-out-of-the-schoolhouse -J guy shouldn't be able to stick a landing into any of those three fields without bending metal?

A pilot can prang an airplane in anywhere. A pilot can input the TOLD wrong anywhere. It doesn't have to be in Afghanistan.

[Hueypilot]

"Should". Yes, the should be able to, but we've demonstrated in the USAF that occasionally we don't, because we're too busy getting a master's degree.

But flying into those fields involve ops with smaller margins for error than flying the ILS to a well-lit 10,000' runway.

[Guest USAFFlyBoy]

Sure, tankers don't normally go into FOBs. Point taken. However, they DO land at Bagram and have managed to do so after an ILS with the gear down every time. They also land at MacDill every day without making a pit stop at Peter O Knight. Need I go on? Your FOB argument doesn't quite hold up when most of these mishaps keep happening at airfields other MAF aircraft frequent as well

[Hueypilot]

Comparing an approach to a 5000' poorly lit landing zone at a PA of 7000' in an unsecured environment to an approach to a 10000' well-lit runway with precision approach guidance in a relatively more secure environment is not a good comparison.

Yes I imagine the tankers flying out of MCF wouldn't mistake TPF for their runway since its their home base and they are very familiar with it. Landing at the wrong airfield isn't necessarily a C-17 specific thing either...C-21s, C-130s and others have done it before too.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

Sure, tankers don't normally go into FOBs. Point taken. However, they DO land at Bagram and have managed to do so after an ILS with the gear down every time. They also land at MacDill every day without making a pit stop at Peter O Knight. Need I go on? Your FOB argument doesn't quite hold up when most of these mishaps keep happening at airfields other MAF aircraft frequent as well

Just because YOU haven't heard of things doesn't mean they haven't happened. Reference Bone at Diego, Buff airshow demo at wrong airport, Thunderbird wrong altimeter setting, etc. Okay, stepping slowly away now from the troll.....

[PirateAF]

Flyboy, we're sorry you're stuck in the back of a crappy life/airframe. You add nothing to the conversation. Troll elsewhere.

[LockheedFix]

I haven't heard of a fighter or tanker flying into a thunderstorm and flaming out 4 engines, or landing gear up because Johnny Tactical felt the need to fly a tactical approach while tankers follow a simple ILS, or any other community within the AF (fighters, tankers, ISR...you name it) landing on a wrong runway that is 1/3 the length it should be. Are you saying this is normal?

Have you heard of an AWACS hard landing that destroyed the aircraft after shooting the ILS to a 10,000 runway in CONUS? How about tankers scraping their engines on the runway?

[Guest USAFFlyBoy]

LockheedFix, I've never flown the KC-135 but I have many friends that do. I'd imagine it is pretty damn difficult to land an aircraft with only 16" clearance on the inboard engines in crosswinds, something high wing aircraft don't really have to worry about. If I remember right, they only have 4 degrees of bank on landing before scraping an engine. Frankly, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more

[TacAirCoug]

LockheedFix, I've never flown the KC-135 but I have many friends that do. I'd imagine it is pretty damn difficult to land an aircraft with only 16" clearance on the inboard engines in crosswinds, something high wing aircraft don't really have to worry about. If I remember right, they only have 4 degrees of bank on landing before scraping an engine. Frankly, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more

Look dude, it's pretty clear you're way out of your lane. Hows about you just STFU and move on, mmmkay? We all bust each other's chops when shit goes sideways, but the fact is we aren't flying 180 pax +bags from MSP to DFW. No matter what we do or how much we prepare, sometimes our shit does, in fact, stink. It may surprise you to learn that there are a few platforms out there that are responsible for more than just an ILS 16 full stop when we zip up our pajamas. Maybe not. What I do know, is that this job isn't easy, and sometimes people fuck up. Sometimes with fatal consequences. There are far better pilots than I will ever be who now have an address in Arlington, VA. I've made my share of mistakes in this business and have come out clean, but I don't confuse my good luck with invincibility. I don't know what you do, FlyBoy, but it's pretty clear your experience in a tactical environment is limited to avoiding tipping the baggers at the commissary on a Tuesday afternoon.

I am fucking tired of reading posts from whiny bitches passing judgement on their brothers without so much as a tenth of an hour in their shoes. Every single community has its challenges, and until you've been there, you just don't know what they are. Those B-1 guys didn't wake up thinking they were going to put their airplane on its belly in Diego Garcia. The guy flying the C-5 at Dover didn't didn't say, "Fuck it, I only need 2 motors for this landing." How many F-16 pilots do you think decided to roll & pull into terrain? As long as there are humans defying gravity with extreme prejudice, the lucky ones will ride out their golden years knowing they got away with one at some point in their careers. Some are not so fortunate.

There is one thing that I can say with confidence: flying a tactical airplane in Afghanistan is not easy. Should these guys have been able to grease that airplane on with no problem? Sure, but I can think of dozens of times that I've landed on that very runway near the end of a max duty day on the backside of a trip turn out of OAIX. I dont care how many eyes you watered on your midphase check in UPT, that shit ain't easy.

It's late, and God damn this Tullamore Dew is delicious, but how about a little perspective around here, eh? Fucking hell.

[MCO]

Stop feeding the troll... Flyboy has shown his ignorance... He is either trolling or an idiot... Probably both

[Guest USAFFlyBoy]

Rant much?

[Hugo Stiglitz]

I agree...well said. Besides the fact that the troll is now well-nourished.

[Mark1]

These hard landings seem to happen all too often in the C-17 and C-130 communities. I believe it shows how the airlift communities as a whole are completely disconnected from the rest of AF aviation. When was the last time you heard about this in the fighter or tanker communities?

The last time *I* heard about it? Not long ago. And beyond that, the much more applicable, "when was the last time you heard about pilot error resulting in any kind of incident in those other platforms" I'd be happy to give you a multitude of examples, except I'm not going to shit on the dead.

The MAF does not own the trademark on this. It might not exhibit itself in the same manner in the pointy nose CAF because saving a botched landing isn't as difficult when your power/weight ratio is near, or greater than 1, but it exhibits itself in other ways just the same. And I'm not, and have never been in the MAF, so this isn't a pride thing.

Eat a bullet.

[Azimuth]

LockheedFix, I've never flown the KC-135 but I have many friends that do. I'd imagine it is pretty damn difficult to land an aircraft with only 16" clearance on the inboard engines in crosswinds, something high wing aircraft don't really have to worry about. If I remember right, they only have 4 degrees of bank on landing before scraping an engine. Frankly, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more

18"

[disgruntledemployee]

Rant much?

I feel sorry for the people that have to work with you. If you are indeed in this flying business, good luck. Try not to kill anyone.

Karma is a bitch! <-- that means that one day you will fuck up big and someone will look at your posts and conclude, that figures.

Out

[disgruntledemployee]

For the rest of my Herk brothers, I can hold speculation until the report comes out. I will read and learn from it just like I learned from the Al Jabber (sp?) the crash after takeoff from Baghdad, the class A that happened last year in AFG in a similar situation (porpoised assault landing), and even the recent 747 crash.

What I will offer is that calling the go around is easier said than done for some reasons. If its looking ugly, I think (and hope) all of us will call the go. But sometimes the bad approach is overlooked, its called late and no one reacts (Jabber). Sometimes, it looks OK until the flare, they bounce and the pilot stops flying and rides it in.

The DO, CC, Stan/eval, etc are not sitting on the bunk for every flight to keep an eye out on the newer and inexperienced. They see the dangers and talk about them all the time. I think they are so fucking relieved when they finally rotate home with everyone thay brought out thinking that they cheated the reaper. And its because the experience is so much lower that it used to be and gets lower every year. "You go to war with what you have" was a true statement, especially when it comes to people. DOs will do their best with what they have, talk to guys every mission, then pray that the kids show good judgement and enough skill to bring everyone back each day. It's a very tough fight to get/keep the people you need--AFPC/career progression get in the way.

Out