Stank Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Bailing out was a more likely scenario for KC-135s during the cold war, if it ever went nuclear. If the bomber needed more gas than planned, the tanker had to provide it. Now you have a KC-135 over northern Canada without enough gas to get to its recovery base. Also, the recovery base could be a nuclear crater. A controlled bailout would be an acceptable option, with time to get your equipment ready and the jet slowed down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFM this Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Bailing out was a more likely scenario for KC-135s during the cold war, if it ever went nuclear. If the bomber needed more gas than planned, the tanker had to provide it. Now you have a KC-135 over northern Canada without enough gas to get to its recovery base. Also, the recovery base could be a nuclear crater. A controlled bailout would be an acceptable option, with time to get your equipment ready and the jet slowed down. Most likely scenario is good and all... Really this harkens to the debate over arming 121 carrier pilots. If in that situation, yes, I would want to be armed. If faced with that particular debate, yes, I would concede that the chances of successfully employing my weapon and saving lives would be astronomically remote. But again, that debate, like this one, begs the question: would you rather have that last-resort option, or be left wishing you had it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) At least one that I heard of. It was on a local training sortie several decades ago (70s?) between Wurtsmith and K.I. Sawyer. The IP screwed up and ran out of gas on the way home. The crew didn't think they'd make the runway and bailed out 10 or 15 miles short of landing as the engines began flaming out, except for the IP, who glided it in almost undamaged as the last engine ran (or was running) dry. The AF tried to hammer him for damage to AF property, but the only "damage" was the lost crew escape hatch door. The IP searched back along the flight path on final and found the door in a marshy area basically undamaged, and brought it back, which eliminated the charge. Of course, his career was finished, but at least he didn't have to finish it in jail. I wasn't there...could be urban legend, I suppose...but that's what the tanker guys at Beale told me when I was flying with them in the 80s. How do you run out of gas in a tanker? That's like a whore house running out of -tang Edited May 6, 2013 by matmacwc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arg Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 A parachute is like a gun. If you need one and don't have one you will probably never need one again. Several bailouts from AC-130s in the Viet Nam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ratner Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 A parachute is like a gun. If you need one and don't have one you will probably never need one again. Several bailouts from AC-130s in the Viet Nam. I was going to say condom, but gun works too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC5Wes Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Didn’t King 56 have parachutes but no survival gear? That’s why they decided to ditch in the ocean. When they could have bailed out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram02 Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 One of the older E-3s still had the parachute racks installed when I was there. All of the aircraft still have the bailout chutes installed. The bailout chute is going away with Block 40/45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawman Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 How do you run out of gas in a tanker? That's like a whore house running out of -tang It's like going in the back with the stripper and getting one too many dances... Sometimes shit happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiFlyer Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 How do you run out of gas in a tanker? That's like a whore house running out of -tang The way it was explained to me was the IP (or FE) was running several people through trying to get beans accomplished. They hit bingo at the out base and should have started home. He chose to stick around for "one more approach", got delayed a bit, and finally started home well below bingo. Headwinds were higher than forecast going home, another routing delay, etc. and flat ran them out of gas. Not great judgement, but the only guy I've ever heard of to dead-stick a tanker to a successful landing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jughead Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 the only guy I've ever heard of to dead-stick a tanker to a successful landing! Only solo landing AFAIK, too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunnerlit Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 AC-130 had a mixed bailout/ditch back in the 90's. If i remember right only one of the bailout guys ended up being killed however a few of the crew that rode to the ditch were killed. Not comparing one is "safer" to the other, but no ones brought this actual bailout and ditching mishap yet Their call sign was Jockey 14. There are quite a few sites out there that discuss the events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky_king Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 Deadstick, solo landing? Did he manually lower the gear himself, too? Sounds a little far fetched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jughead Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Deadstick, solo landing? Did he manually lower the gear himself, too? Sounds a little far fetched. Last engine quit on short final (or so the story goes).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbar Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) http://www.airforcem...fallschirm.aspx This new parachute cuts down on weight and at least one heavy platform thinks it's a good idea to still carry them... Edited May 7, 2013 by pbar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jughead Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 the only guy I've ever heard of to dead-stick a tanker to a successful landing! Thinking about this reminds me of another one--during my timeframe, so it's less legend & hopefully more dependable. Any falsehoods in the following are likely my own misunderstanding, but: A KS Guard E-model tanker from Forbes was at McConnell--more accurately, at Boeing-Wichita--getting an "upgrade" to the fuel system, something to do with a Teflon lining in the tanks that would prevent fungus growth. Mod is done, FCFs complete, crew comes to pick up the jet, takes off for the short flight home--and loses an engine at gear retract. Interesting, but no real pucker, practice it all the time. Heading toward holding & cleaning up the failed engine, and a second one quits. YGBFSM, screw the checklist, let's get our asses on the ground. Turning base on a bastardized visual VFR pattern-ish approach, third engine quits. Last engine got them to the flare, then it quit. As I heard the story, the only thing they broke on the landing was a couple of blown tires when they lost SA on the antiskid in all the excitement. Investigation was short. At issue was the wonderfully fungus-free Teflon lining--turns out that JP-8 is a solvent for it. (Seemed like a good idea at the time...?) Lining shredded itself, gunked up the entire fuel system until the point of fuel starvation to all engines. Jet never flew again--last I heard, they canned everything they could off of it and are using the airframe as a cargo load trainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Right Seat Driver Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Thinking about this reminds me of another one--during my timeframe, so it's less legend & hopefully more dependable. Any falsehoods in the following are likely my own misunderstanding, but: A KS Guard E-model tanker from Forbes was at McConnell--more accurately, at Boeing-Wichita--getting an "upgrade" to the fuel system, something to do with a Teflon lining in the tanks that would prevent fungus growth. Mod is done, FCFs complete, crew comes to pick up the jet, takes off for the short flight home--and loses an engine at gear retract. Interesting, but no real pucker, practice it all the time. Heading toward holding & cleaning up the failed engine, and a second one quits. YGBFSM, screw the checklist, let's get our asses on the ground. Turning base on a bastardized visual VFR pattern-ish approach, third engine quits. Last engine got them to the flare, then it quit. As I heard the story, the only thing they broke on the landing was a couple of blown tires when they lost SA on the antiskid in all the excitement. Investigation was short. At issue was the wonderfully fungus-free Teflon lining--turns out that JP-8 is a solvent for it. (Seemed like a good idea at the time...?) Lining shredded itself, gunked up the entire fuel system until the point of fuel starvation to all engines. Jet never flew again--last I heard, they canned everything they could off of it and are using the airframe as a cargo load trainer. Accurate story. It is now across the ramp at the Kansas Aviation Museum.Deadstick, solo landing? Did he manually lower the gear himself, too? Sounds a little far fetched. No shit this happened up at K.I. Sawyer. The other successful -135 bail-out was at Clinton-Sherman around the mid-1960s timeframe, IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiFlyer Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Deadstick, solo landing? Did he manually lower the gear himself, too? Sounds a little far fetched. Had at least one running until short final, and the airplane was configured a mile or two out. "All" he had to do was keep it flying on one or less on a steep approach. How do you run out of gas in a tanker? That's like a whore house running out of -tang There is no limit to man's stupidity and gross overconfidence. The tanker community's equivilenty of Bud Holland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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