HuggyU2 Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Tragic oversight. http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/29/17521724-pilot-ejected-when-small-airplane-dives-near-chattanooga-search-under-way?lite= 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guineapigfury Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 That's an awful way to go, at least it was over for the poor guy in a matter of seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HossHarris Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Yeah but he knew it was coming the whole way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialD Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I can't imagine why he would have taken his seat belt off. Aside from flying at the airlines, I can't remember a time I ever took my seat belt off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy Spike Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Yeah but he knew it was coming the whole way down. Just like BQZip's mom. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sputnik Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I have zero civil time...is it normal to fly without a seatbelt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herkbum Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I have zero civil time...is it normal to fly without a seatbelt? I always wear mine when flying, either mil or civ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discus Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) These were two dudes right? The only time I remember taking my seatbelt off in a GA airplane was when I was young, stupid and in my early 20s and on a date... Edit: yes the date was with a woman, a-holes. Edited March 31, 2013 by discus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialD Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I have zero civil time...is it normal to fly without a seatbelt? Negatron. FAR (or 14 CFR 91, for the reg Nazis) says you have to keep your seatbelt on for takeoff, landing and while en-route, and your shoulder harness on for takeoff and landing (unless you are unable to do you job as a result of wearing the shoulder harness). I always wear mine when flying, either mil or civ. 2! This goes along the lines, of play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I generally try to give the benefit of doubt, but I'm scratching my nugget on this one. Maybe the seatbelts are uncomfortable, or maybe there was a malfunction of the seatbelt (highly unlikely...but then again, so is your canopy flying off). Either way it sounds like this was easily preventable, and that's unfortunate. Didn't the pilot of the Aewacs, that had the tanker incident fuck up his back because he wasn't wearing a seatbelt (2nd hand info)? I'm generally not the guy that goes around quoting ever FAR (as I post a reg above), but they are there for a reason. I've known a few guys that had blatant disregard for the regs, we all have. One packed in a 310 while flying IFR, he was not instrument or multi-engine rated. Another one destroyed a beautiful 421 because he decided to fly into known icing with malfunction boots. He decided to adjust his flap setting on landing and stalled it 50 feet above the runway. He broke a wing spar, bent the engine mounts so bad that his props hit the pavement, and the plane never flew again. The last guy balled up a R22 because he decided to start it up in the hanger and taxi out...you can't make this shit up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contraildash Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 That's pretty damn sad. I wonder what they were actually doing. I saw some real 'interesting' stuff at the FBO I worked at for a few years. From dudes pencil whipping their experience/ratings (and eventually caught) to just downright dangerous flying, people never ceased to amaze me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuggyU2 Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 I've known a few guys that had blatant disregard for the regs, we all have. One packed in a 310... Another one destroyed a beautiful 421... The last guy balled up a R22... You know these 3 guys?! Wow. You need to hang out with better people at the airport, my friend!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgruntledemployee Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 My door (on a Piper) popped open in flight and scared the livin' shit out of me. The incident didn't cause me to move out of my seat, nonetheless I was very thankful I had my seatbelt on. There has got to be more to this story. To come completely out of your seat, you probably need some good negative Gs, and I doubt turbies caused this. Perhaps more like some significant nose down trim and then let go of the yoke and enjoy the ride. Screw around with planes and bad shit will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky_king Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) A malfunction caused the plane to nose dive and the canopy flew open – and neither man was wearing a seat belt, WRCB reported. I'm no accident investigator, but I've done my share of dumb, dangerous and different things back in the day. This sounds like somebody wanted to do the homemade vomit comet 'zero-g' ride and went a little overboard. There aren't many malfunctions that I can think of that would cause an airplane to instantly 'nose dive' and later be recoverable. Also, the canopy didn't just open in flight, I'm guessing a 200 pound man hitting it in a -1 dive while kicking the latch probably had something to do with it. Also, you should read the NTSB reports on crashes related to doors opening on takeoff. There is a ridiculous amount of deaths caused by people trying to close doors at low altitudes.. Guess what, a GA airplane will fly with the door open. I've even landed a C-172 using the doors to steer and the elevator trim for pitch, never touching the yoke. This was under the supervision of a CFI, but still probably in the Triple-D realm. Bottom line, if the door unlatches, leave it until you level off and trim up the airplane. You've got a better chance of dying trying to close it. Edited March 31, 2013 by sky_king Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialD Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 You know these 3 guys?! Wow. You need to hang out with better people at the airport, my friend!! I knew them in that I knew their names and in passing. They flew out of the airport that our flight school got some of our mx done. It was a good shop, these three just happened to fly out of this particular airport. The mx guys showed me the aftermath of the 421 and R22...the 310 happened after I left for pilot training, can't say I was surprised. I did not associate with these guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 My door (on a Piper) popped open in flight and scared the livin' shit out of me. In the mighty Huey we would intentionally remove our doors in the summer time. When it's hot out with no AC, doors suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuggyU2 Posted April 1, 2013 Author Share Posted April 1, 2013 I've even landed a C-172 using the doors to steer and the elevator trim for pitch, never touching the yoke. http://superdaveairshows.com/dave-mathieson/ Read the second to last paragraph. It really doesn't do the story justice, though. I've heard Dave tell the story twice, and it is fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 "Voted #1aerobatic pilot in Canada (By His Mom)." I like his sense of humor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 I'm sure there is more to this story. Circa 1999, Corpus Christi lost an instructor whose seatbelt had been unlatched during the control check. The buckle was susceptible to this and there were numerous Read and Initials (FCIFs) covering this problem. While unaware of his unlatched seatbelt, the doomed IP watched/instructed as the student departed the field, entered the working area, did checklists and clearing turns and prepared for the first maneuver...spin recovery. T-34 spin recovery was full opposite rudder, stick slightly forward of neutral. This student put the stick to the forward stop and as the aircraft exited the spin, the negative Gs literally launched the IP through the plexiglass canopy. He opened his parachute appropriately, but unfortunately, then released the buckles too early and ended up falling an estimated 300 feet to the water. They believe that he thought he was much lower and was doing the procedure properly. Anyway back to this mishap. You never know when something unexpected will happen and your seatbelt will make all the difference. Wear it, check it and double check it. It is not the routine things that kill you, it is the surprise things that take you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf424 Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 the negative Gs literally launched the IP through the plexiglass canopy. He opened his parachute appropriately, but unfortunately, then released the buckles too early and ended up falling an estimated 300 feet to the water. They believe that he thought he was much lower and was doing the procedure properly. Damn...I've heard both of these stories before. I had no idea it was the same guy all on one flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swanee Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I'm sure there is more to this story. Circa 1999, Corpus Christi lost an instructor whose seatbelt had been unlatched during the control check. The buckle was susceptible to this and there were numerous Read and Initials (FCIFs) covering this problem. While unaware of his unlatched seatbelt, the doomed IP watched/instructed as the student departed the field, entered the working area, did checklists and clearing turns and prepared for the first maneuver...spin recovery. T-34 spin recovery was full opposite rudder, stick slightly forward of neutral. This student put the stick to the forward stop and as the aircraft exited the spin, the negative Gs literally launched the IP through the plexiglass canopy. He opened his parachute appropriately, but unfortunately, then released the buckles too early and ended up falling an estimated 300 feet to the water. They believe that he thought he was much lower and was doing the procedure properly. Anyway back to this mishap. You never know when something unexpected will happen and your seatbelt will make all the difference. Wear it, check it and double check it. It is not the routine things that kill you, it is the surprise things that take you down. They changed the procedure from release ~10ft above the water to release when your feet hit the water because of this incident. They also added a mod to the buckle to ensure the stick wouldn't touch it. When I flew the T-34 a couples years ago it was still part of the NATOPs checklist to ensure the stick couldn't undo the buckle during a wipeout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpharatz Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 A couple three years ago I was taking some photos from the aft end of a skydiving rigged turbo-prop i.e. no seats in back and a milk crate for me. As the last jumper cleared the hatch to my left the pilot banked hard left and I found myself staring out the open hatch. There was however a seat-belt which I had dutifully buckled. I foolishly was not wearing a parachute. I was on the last exposure and it "startled" me so badly that I advanced right past the stop...tore the film out of the can and broke the advancer. .........."Hey, sorrrreeee, I'm hungry"............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExBoneOSO Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Some more details from Flying magazine: Almost inexplicably, neither the instructor nor the experienced owner-pilot of a Zodiac 601-XL (N999NA) was wearing his seat belt on an instructional flight in the newly-acquired aircraft. Following an unexplained “malfunction” that caused a severe pitch-down, the forward-hinged canopy flew open and the student pilot was thrown from the two-seat, side-by-side cockpit. He fell 2,500 feet to his death, and it took several hours to locate the body, aided by GPS coordinates from a cell phone. The instructor pilot on board was able to regain control of the airplane and land safely, apparently with the canopy still intact. The flight originated at Collegedale Municipal Airport in Chattanooga, Tennessee. The airplane was built by 82-year-old Clarence Andrews, who died in another plane crash last December. His heirs recently sold the airplane to the pilot who died in the fall. In 2010, the FAA completed a safety review of the Zodiac 601-XL, in which it identified discrepancies in the design that could lead to flutter. Light stick force gradients were another concern of the agency, based on its findings. http://www.flyingmag...=MjEzNjUyODIwS0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEVIL Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Some more details from Flying magazine: http://www.flyingmag...=MjEzNjUyODIwS0 "who died in another plane crash" I don't think I'd fly a homebuilt I didn't build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepers21 Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Wonder if the CFI put his seatbelt after he recovered the plane. If you ask me this plane has bad luck written all over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynhigh Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 (edited) Following an unexplained “malfunction” that caused a severe pitch-down, Ah yes, the unexplain "malfunction". I witnessed a guy take off in an R44 from a fairly remote Northern MN lake at 12:30 AM in low overcast and haze and watched him plow into the water no more than 200 yards off shore. He claimed an "unexplained" loss off power. Most of us call BS. His canopy was full of moisture and the horizon was barely distinguishable. He plain and simple flew into the lake. I suspect there is something more to this scenario than an "unexplained" pitch down. I find it hard to believe that the Zodiac 601 has a trim system, or autopilot for that matter, capable of generating enough of a nose down pitching moment to create enough force to punch a guy through the canopy. Not sure of any other malfunction that would result in a nose down pitching moment other than structural failure. I guess it wouldn't be the first time, http://www.eaa.org/n...2-25_zodiac.asp Edit: their vs there... Edited April 4, 2013 by flynhigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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