C-130H Total Force Integration

[BADFNZ]

Is this going to affect the J schoolhouse or any other J Squadrons? Will more H-model dudes be upgrading to Js or will they just be sending them elsewhere?

[osulax05]

Will more H-model dudes be upgrading to Js or will they just be sending them elsewhere?

If you are a herc guy you should know better than to call it an upgrade..... And that's coming from a j guy.

[dream big]

If you are a herc guy you should know better than to call it an upgrade..... And that's coming from a j guy.

Oh sorry didn't realize switching autopilot on and gazing through a hud was such a giant leap!

[Fifty-six & Two]

Is this going to affect the J schoolhouse or any other J Squadrons?

I told you a week ago that this doesn't apply to the J-model side.

[osulax05]

Read what I wrote and try again. I said its not an upgrade, just a transition.

[amcflyboy]

SCNS to FMS is an upgrade...no matter how you paint the picture.

[Spinner]

Any rumors about the 62nd or the ANG schoolhouse squadrons? I know it is all a crap shoot at this point, but are thy slated to keep those missions?

Ok, here we go:

1. The 62 AS will most likely become the J model schoolhouse (longer lineage than the 48 AS), but that is up for the AF Historian to decide.

2. The 189 AW (154 TRS) will assume the LEGACY C-130 schoolhouse.

3. LEGACY C-130 guys are going to get the shaft. Manning at LEGACY locations is about maxed out, and there are not enough J-model transition courses. AFPC asked for more, but only got 6 for the year.

If you want more info on the J-model schoolhouse, PM me. I have to go back to counting our troops and finding out their locations...

[LockheedFix]

Read what I wrote and try again. I said its not an upgrade, just a transition.

Faster, more fuel efficient, smaller MX footprint, better MX rates (no more delays for changing TIT gauges), simpler mission planning, digimap, reconfigure the cargo compartment in half the time, and a HUD. You're right, that's not an upgrade.

[disgruntledemployee]

Faster, more fuel efficient, smaller MX footprint, better MX rates (no more delays for changing TIT gauges), simpler mission planning, digimap, reconfigure the cargo compartment in half the time, and a HUD. You're right, that's not an upgrade.

Umteen million ESPs for low pitch stops, takes forever to get off the LRF zone, loves to call themselves the "Super Hercules" when calling on common upon entering the SR route, can't do a no-flap for training, tells you that you oversped anything by 1 knot, minus 2 thinking brains in the front end, and still let a lowly E model beat all of them at the last Rodeo.

Sorry, back on topic. spinner is correct on points 1-3, at least until the AF pulls another krazy Ivan.

Out

[RASH]

Umteen million ESPs for low pitch stops, takes forever to get off the LRF zone, loves to call themselves the "Super Hercules" when calling on common upon entering the SR route, can't do a no-flap for training, tells you that you oversped anything by 1 knot, minus 2 thinking brains in the front end, and still let a lowly E model beat all of them at the last Rodeo.

Out

And which one of these is a positive for the E/H?

[slc]

And which one of these is a positive for the E/H?

J's can't spray. Enough said.

[LockheedFix]

Spray what? I hope you're not referring to MAFFS.

[RASH]

J's can't spray. Enough said.

You're kidding, right? Enlighten me...

[Fuzz]

J's can't spray. Enough said.

Spray what? I hope you're not referring to MAFFS.

You're kidding, right? Enlighten me...

I think he may be referring to this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory

[slc]

I think he may be referring to this?

http://en.wikipedia....nspiracy_theory

Bingo!!

[Hueypilot]

Oh sorry didn't realize switching autopilot on and gazing through a hud was such a giant leap!

There's a lot more to the J than that...that being said, having the automation available to use has benefits.

Umteen million ESPs for low pitch stops, takes forever to get off the LRF zone, loves to call themselves the "Super Hercules" when calling on common upon entering the SR route, can't do a no-flap for training, tells you that you oversped anything by 1 knot, minus 2 thinking brains in the front end, and still let a lowly E model beat all of them at the last Rodeo.

A. I've got about 2k hours in E-H2.5s and Js. About 1,500 of those hours are in legacy airplanes and about 500 hours in Js. I've shut down one motor in the J for a low pitch stop fail ACAWS in Afghanistan, and that was precautionary. I've shut down no less than 6 engines in the E and H, some were precautionary and some just failed or were about to fail. So what's your point again? The low pitch stop fail issue is a known defect that's being worked at the AFMC and manufacturer level to redesign the PCU. The low pitch stops don't actually fail, it's just a sensor problem. From my time working wing safety, the legacy had the J beat in ESPs by a mile.

B. As for the ALZ issue, dunno about that one. Operator issues, I guess. I clear the ALZ just as fast in a J as I do in the E or H.

C. The "Super Hercules" thing is said mostly to irritate the legacy dudes, IMHO. Who cares.

D. The J can do no-flaps. There's a reason they don't on a regular basis...the J-30 WILL strike a tail skid if you land it zero flap. The short Js can do it just as fine as the legacy Herks, but they don't practice in the airplane because 95% of the fleet comprise the J-30 and it's just one of those USAF-isms of "if most of the fleet can't do it without risk of damage, then none of them should". It lands just like a legacy bird in zero flap configuration....and other than emergency procedures that necessitate it, why risk damaging the airplane?

E. Actually, the airplane only takes a snapshot of data every few seconds, so if your overspeed is very transitory, it may not even capture it...not any worse than a FE that notices your overspeed. Again, what's your point?

F. This is the part that is most controversial...and having gone from E/H to J and back to H again, I can say with 100% honesty that I'd rather have the J flight deck. You have lots of SA from all the displays and only a few people talking on intercomm. It's actually much more chaotic on a legacy flight deck on a low level and I'm always having to tell someone to "standby" so I can catch a radio call...plus if I lose SA, I have to have a conversation with someone in order to regain it, versus in the J I can just pull up a display and figure it out. The legacy intercom system sucks, I have to listen to the copilot breathing into his hot mic and the nav talking over the radio calls...you get my point.

For what it's worth, I love both the legacy and the J...both great airplanes. But the J is a very good improvement. You can't speak to that if you've never flown one.

[Champ Kind]

^Well put.

[Hueypilot]

Back to the subject...here's the latest RUMINT:

LRF: 41AS, 61AS will be J. 48AS will probably take the 62AS flag. I've heard faint rumors that if the J-model PFT picks up, there's an outside possibility of a second J-model schoolhouse squadron (48AS redux?). The ANG (154TRS) will become the H-model schoolhouse. The AFRC wing will have C-130H2s and will be combat coded (likely the 913AW) and will have an AMC TFI squadron that is yet-to-be announced (prob the 50AS). 53AS will probably close.

Yokota at some point in the future will probably go J-model as well. All the RQS units will have HC-130Js and AFSOC MC-130Ps and AC-130Hs will switch to the MC-130J and AC-130J. AFSOC will keep the MC-130H, MC-130W and AC-130U for a little while longer. Several ANG units that lost their airplanes will probably get a limited number of C-130Hs...not sure which ones though.

At some point, the entire active duty USAF will be a J-model based fleet, to include AFSOC. Eventually that will happen to the ARC but most of their tails are new enough to last a while longer. I've heard the AF would really like to put the Rockwell-Collins avionics suite into their H fleet, but our f'd up procurement system is going to make that a challenge. It would give us digital avionics with CNS/ATM compliance and GPS approach capability for a fraction of the cost of the full-up Boeing AMP program. The USCG has modded their H-models with it and if you google it, it's a pretty sweet set up. Since it's purely an avionics set up and doesn't change how the rest of the airplane works, the H's will retain the FE and keep Navs onboard for tac flights.

[noumenon]

The J model PFT...backed up through 2014. Two squadrons at schoolhouse would need twice the civilian manning as well? SIMs running 24/7? How likely is a second J FTU?

The J/H dick measuring is boring. J is bright/shiny and plenty of perks... Legacy has some sweet locations. It's ok to be Jay, many of my friends are Jay, its the future of tac airlift, everybody is gonna have at least one Jay experience at some point growing up in tac airlift. The legacy dudes just have to accept it.

The Aircraft going to the guard from the 53 AS deactivating might add some new TFI associates for the legacy. We gotta go somewhere and j model is a closed door for the most part due to PFT. that said, some dudes already have RIPs for the j model transition currently at little rock. Moving conversation along, seems like dobbins might get J model. Pittsburgh getting more H models, and two more rumored to get H models as LR deactivates and cuts metal. Cant find where this was planned out very well, seems like something that has been in the works for a while but is now getting the asap request from AF and being tweaked by every pissed off congressman. A plan put together in true legacy style, one mod at a time slammed in place with duck tape. The legacy is going out gracefully, something to brief congress...dying for the sins of staffers/shoe clerks across the air force.

Edited February 17, 2013 by noumenon

[Tonka]

A plan put together in true legacy style, one mod at a time slammed in place with duck tape.

Sounds like the development of the Whiskey... Dare I ask, might this dramatic reduction bring hope to keeping the C27J around. It's crazy, but it is probably ~80% the same as the 130J (avionics/engines wise) and has a few tricks up its sleeve.

[RASH]

Bingo!!

Sorry, sarcasm detector was inop...

[RASH]

I've shut down no less than 6 engines in the E and H,

YGBSM? 6 shutdowns in your E/H career? I had that in a month at Pope in the 41st back in the mid-90s. Heck, I shutdown the same motor on the same plane 3 days in a row in 2004. You were lucky...

[disgruntledemployee]

Oh Hueypilot, I was just having a little fun. Some of those out there that think they are so special because of the plane they fly, I felt I had to give a good ribbing. On your point C, we laugh and sometimes chime in with, "Gay." But this thread is not about dick measuring, its about people's future.

One last piece I heard with the 50th is that they will go J earlier than expected, so I don't know how that will affect the TFI relationship with AFRC. But I think that is someone spreading crap as I don't see Lockheed pumping out Js like Ford assembly line with the current budget battle.

Sounds like the development of the Whiskey... Dare I ask, might this dramatic reduction bring hope to keeping the C27J around. It's crazy, but it is probably ~80% the same as the 130J (avionics/engines wise) and has a few tricks up its sleeve.

Nope, C-27s are outta here. Some of those units with get Herks. I don't have a base to base comparison on which ones, if not all.

PS. All my ESPs were for real reasons, not a computer glitch. <------ More ribbing!

Out

[Hercules]

Back to the subject...here's the latest RUMINT:

LRF: 41AS, 61AS will be J. 48AS will probably take the 62AS flag. I've heard faint rumors that if the J-model PFT picks up, there's an outside possibility of a second J-model schoolhouse squadron (48AS redux?). The ANG (154TRS) will become the H-model schoolhouse. The AFRC wing will have C-130H2s and will be combat coded (likely the 913AW) and will have an AMC TFI squadron that is yet-to-be announced (prob the 50AS). 53AS will probably close.

Yokota at some point in the future will probably go J-model as well. All the RQS units will have HC-130Js and AFSOC MC-130Ps and AC-130Hs will switch to the MC-130J and AC-130J. AFSOC will keep the MC-130H, MC-130W and AC-130U for a little while longer. Several ANG units that lost their airplanes will probably get a limited number of C-130Hs...not sure which ones though.

At some point, the entire active duty USAF will be a J-model based fleet, to include AFSOC. Eventually that will happen to the ARC but most of their tails are new enough to last a while longer. I've heard the AF would really like to put the Rockwell-Collins avionics suite into their H fleet, but our f'd up procurement system is going to make that a challenge. It would give us digital avionics with CNS/ATM compliance and GPS approach capability for a fraction of the cost of the full-up Boeing AMP program. The USCG has modded their H-models with it and if you google it, it's a pretty sweet set up. Since it's purely an avionics set up and doesn't change how the rest of the airplane works, the H's will retain the FE and keep Navs onboard for tac flights.

Think theres some truth to this, a friend going through H schoolhouse now has been told they're switching to Js and theres no room for him in the -130 world so they're searching for a new airframe for him. Rumors floating around that the number was somewhere around 55 pilots slated for 130s that are now headed elsewhere or RPAs.

[Spinner]

Think theres some truth to this, a friend going through H schoolhouse now has been told they're switching to Js and theres no room for him in the -130 world so they're searching for a new airframe for him. Rumors floating around that the number was somewhere around 55 pilots slated for 130s that are now headed elsewhere or RPAs.

There is truth to this, Hueypilot and I are on the front lines of these shenanigans, and we are telling you exactly what we know. Right now I have 39 copilot students and 11 nav students that are already at LRF or will be here shortly, and those guys will have to find a new airframe. AFPC WILL MAKE THE DECISION OF WHO GOES WHERE. AFSOC, white jets, MC-12s & UAVs are where most of these guys will end up.