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Taxes, the Deficit/Debt, and the Fiscal Cliff


HeloDude

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Disagree respectfully.

Why Social Security Is Not a Ponzi Scheme

I agree with your sentiment (I infer) that it has become something it was originally not designed to be, which was a very modest pension program for widows, elderly and dependents when their provider was gone or unable to work any longer. Reform and modernize, proceed as required.

Dude, your article emphasized all my points for me--that there is no actual investment going on with the money forcefully taken from you (treasury bonds grows government, not economic productivity). That it relies on force, more and more people paying into it, etc.

So I'll see your 'fool.com' article and raise it with one from Forbes...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardsalsman/2011/09/27/social-security-is-much-worse-than-a-ponzi-scheme/

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Dude, your article emphasized all my points for me--that there is no actual investment going on with the money forcefully taken from you (treasury bonds grows government, not economic productivity). That it relies on force, more and more people paying into it, etc.

So I'll see your 'fool.com' article and raise it with one from Forbes...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardsalsman/2011/09/27/social-security-is-much-worse-than-a-ponzi-scheme/

Good article and I completely agree with the sentiment that it is implicit debt and therefore converting it explicit debt is a viable option (gov acting as an escrow agent), also there is no argument from me that the surplus that is collected yearly and raided by Congress for general purpose funding is totally immoral but I will agree to disagree that it is a scheme. It's a legacy program desperately in need of reform and honesty, that it is not meant to be a large part of anyone's retirement portfolio (assuming a middle class and above salary during their working lifetime and hence the expected saving/investment) - it should be means tested safety net only open to those who have paid in, not allowed to generate or keep large surpluses, essentially it should be zero after paying benefits out every year and return those surpasses to those who have paid in

Edited by Clark Griswold
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It is sad that the democratic republic, democracy electing representatives

Like you said - the US is not a democracy, nor are any of the Western European nations. It is the republic here that is failing, like all republics before it.

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Like you said - the US is not a democracy, nor are any of the Western European nations. It is the republic here that is failing, like all republics before it.

upinarms-map.jpg

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/11/08/which-of-the-11-american-nations-do-you-live-in/

Maybe we'll organize as semi-autonomous regions, doubt it but the idea is out there.

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That analysis is clearly flawed; Texas falls into four separate regions!

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Moral hazard or just getting the break that you got after a big screw up? The case for a German write off of a shit ton of Greek debt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/08/business/economy/germanys-debt-history-echoed-in-greece.html?_r=0

Not convinced but cutting them a break may be the least bad move.

Edit: grammar

Edited by Clark Griswold
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Greece is in financial trouble not because of post-large war (like the progressive article compares), but rather due to irresponsible social spending and poor internal monetary policies. Very little will change in Greece as their Sunday vote showed that they want the socialism that they can't afford. Right now giving them more money is throwing good money after bad. Either way, this hurts the Euro, which is a good thing.

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  • 2 years later...

Guess we are shutting down, hope people have a rainy day fund. I found out the other day this is the 19th government shutdown, most of the presidents going back to Carter had them.  I think amnesty is a bridge a bit to far for the electorate, even further if they knew the history and President Reagan's amnesty in the 80's and how the Democrats didn't follow through on their part of the bargain, they'll just do the same thing again.

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I've had a beer or two since, but didn't USAA still pay it's members their normal  paycheck on payday when the last shutdown took place?


I remember discussions about that but I don’t remember if it happened or not. This time it’s shut down on the 20th. I’ll be surprised if it’s still shut down on the 30th (pay day).
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I've had a beer or two since, but didn't USAA still pay it's members their normal  paycheck on payday when the last shutdown took place?

IIRC, it never actually came to that with the last shutdown. They funded military pay separately so as to avoid looking like the ass clowns they are. I do recall though, when we had a pending shutdown (maybe in 2011?), where DFAS jumped the gun and fûcked up everyone’s paychecks.
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There was already a bill proposed late last night to fund mil pay separately from the rest of the shutdown and also halt Congressional pay until the government reopens. Hopefully something like this passes, or better yet, the shutdown ends quickly early next week.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/369829-trump-state-dems-introduce-bill-to-withhold-lawmaker-pay-during-shutdown

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1 hour ago, SCRIMP said:

Will this cancel all currently planned/scheduled TDYs? I have orders for a trip on 31 Jan.

It depends on what the TDY is. There is amplifying information released by the DoD outlining what TDYs will proceed or be cancelled. Bottomline, if it is mission essential expect to press. If it isn't, the TDY will probably be cancelled. I know a couple of people being recalled from TDY IAW the DoD guidance detailing TDY actions in the shut down.

Edited by Right Seat Driver
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17 minutes ago, Right Seat Driver said:

It depends on what the TDY is. There is amplifying information released by the DoD outlining what TDYs will proceed or be cancelled. Bottomline, if it is mission essential expect to press. If it isn't, the TDY will probably be cancelled. I know a couple of people being recalled from TDY IAW the DoD guidance detailing TDY actions in the shut down.

+2.  Saw this discussion taking place in our front office.  JAG had to come explain how the 2-star's trip the the Puzzle Palace to brief was still on, but the 1-star's trip to officiate a retirement would have to be out of pocket if the gov't shutdown remained.

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2 minutes ago, NKAWTG said:

No clue what mission essential actually means.  Do we recall folks from SOS and upgrade at the FTU?  Do contract maintainers show up Monday to preflight aircraft?  

That is a great question. AFAIK, SOS and FTU guys are good. Unknown about contract maintainers. Some were furloughed in 2013. The DoD did not seem prepared for this shut down based on the vague guidance they've released.

Edited by Right Seat Driver
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1 hour ago, Right Seat Driver said:

That is a great question. AFAIK, SOS and FTU guys are good. Unknown about contract maintainers. Some were furloughed in 2013. The DoD did not seem prepared for this shut down based on the vague guidance they've released.

Do you think DoD leadership actually had faith that a budget would get passed, or do they just have to look like they have faith in front of the elected officials?

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2 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Do you think DoD leadership actually had faith that a budget would get passed, or do they just have to look like they have faith in front of the elected officials?

I think the leadership had faith a CR would get passed because it seems to be standard ops now. IIRC, the DoD had guidance in-place prior to the 2013 shut down so everyone was prepared when congress failed to act.

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13 hours ago, BADFNZ said:

I've had a beer or two since, but didn't USAA still pay it's members their normal  paycheck on payday when the last shutdown took place?

They're doing it again this time if it lasts that long...

 

https://communities.usaa.com/t5/USAA-News/USAA-to-Help-Members-in-Event-of-Government-Shutdown/ba-p/159635

 

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