Vprdrvr69 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 As part of my graduate capstone project, I have decided to analyze part of the USAF's broken personnel management system. Specifically, I am exploring the potential long-term effects of TAMI-21 (being a victim of this dirty whore myself) on pilot retention. Below, are links to surveymonkey.com for either RPA TAMI dudes or AFSOC TAMI dudes. The survey is one page and should take less than 2 minutes. Most of the TAMI guys that I know are in AFSOC and have already completed the survey. I am really seeking more surveys from the RPA community. Any help that you guys can provide in either completing the survey, or forwarding it to TAMI victims will be much appreciated. After you take the survey, you will see the running results (which perhaps need to be forwarded far up the USAF chain). For all non-survey participants, I will post the results here within two weeks for discussion. RPA link: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/NJ9MCKS AFSOC link: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/NQTW2VM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guineapigfury Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I'm a tanker dude nonvolled into RPAs, so I didn't take your survey as it wasn't meant for me. It's probably too late now, but I'd have included a couple of questions along the lines of "If you plan on separating, why?". Sometimes you really have to spell it out for people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vprdrvr69 Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 I'm a tanker dude nonvolled into RPAs, so I didn't take your survey as it wasn't meant for me. It's probably too late now, but I'd have included a couple of questions along the lines of "If you plan on separating, why?". Sometimes you really have to spell it out for people. I would've liked to put that question in there, but I ran out of options with survey monkey because I refused to sign up and pay the $$$ (that's why I had to have 2 surveys). You are right though, things needs to be spelled out very clearly because even with this data being so easy to analyze, if it were presented to AFPC they wouldn't understand a word of it or why it is what it is. When I was at SOS the O-6 commander from AFPC briefed to us all about personnel issues (including the VSP at that time). She stood by her statement that getting the incredible opportunity to go fly UAVs and leave your fighter MWS was exactly like back in the 70's when guys had to go fly the F-16 or B-1! I had to have her comment on that one after the brief and she stood by it 100%. Absolutely clueless and had no reply to why well over 69% of the applicants for VSP were younger pilots. It made sense that personnelist was her third job specialty since joining the AF. Hopefully she has found a fourth by now; I'm sure she's been promoted. For everyone that has completed the survey, thank you for your time. I will post the results back here in about two weeks when I close it out and compile the data for easier viewing. It's entertaining as hell and even worse (for the USAF) than I thought, if that's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vprdrvr69 Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 Results are in. I surpassed my sample size goal of 25% and need to get to work on my project. I will try to keep this simple. Total TAMI-21 Victims= Approx 150; Total Surveyed= 42 (about 30% sample size, even split between AFSOC/RPA bubbas) Results will be displayed in this format: AFSOC/ RPA What community did you get TAMId from?Fighter (71%/86%)Bomber (29%/14%) What is your current pilot qualification level?AC (10%/14%)IP (33%/29%)EP (57%/57%) How many opportunities are there to go back to your original MWS (or to a manned aircraft for RPA pilots)?Many (0/0)Few (0/5%)Almost zero (100%/95%) How many years of ADSC do you have remaining?1 (5%/5%)2 (19%/ 38%)3 (76%/52%)4+ (5%/5%) Are you staying on active duty in the USAF when your ADSC expires?Yes (0/0)No (48%/67%)Depends on next assignment (52%/33%) How is pilot retention in your current unit? [*]Great (0/0) [*]Fair (19%/14%) [*]Poor (24%/29%) [*]Pilots are leaving at any/all opportunities (57%/57%) Do you expect pilot retention to suffer more as a result of TAMI guys leaving AD? [*]Absolutely (86%/76%) [*]Possibly (10%/5%) [*]Neutral (4%/0) [*]No impact on retention (0/ 19%) If you plan on separating, what motivators might entice you to stay on active duty (select all that apply)? [*]Assignment back to orig. MWS (or manned aircraft for RPA dudes) (19 replies out of 42 total) [*]Increase in Aviation Continuation Pay (13 replies out of 42) [*]Weak economy or lack of jobs outside of the USAF (13 out of 42 total) [*]I am leaving the USAF when my ADSC expires regardless (16 replies out of 42 total). That is the bulk of it, in raw unfiltered form. Pretty impressive work on behalf of the USAF personnel management team. You took some of the best and the brightest, fukked them over to fix a short term problem and completely depleted the value of these long term resources to the USAF. I laugh every time I hear someone say that "our people are our most valuable resource". Actions speak louder than words. Considering how well the USAF is maintaining its most senior and qualified pilots, I am sure nobody will notice when many of the IP's and EP's leave in 2-3 years. Not sure about the RPA world, but at my last unit about 75% of the EPs were TAMI guys. Well, looks like the only fix is for TAMI guys to get back to fighters and the ACP to go up substantially- neither of which will happen. Thanks again to everyone who took the time to fill the survey out as well as the comments I received via PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tac airlifter Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Interesting work, thanks for collecting and posting. That said, that AF will survive. They'll simply upgrade more people who aren't ready and magically replace the EPs who leave. And those new people will mostly do fine. And everything will continue on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BQZip01 Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Interesting work, thanks for collecting and posting. That said, that AF will survive. They'll simply upgrade more people who aren't ready and magically replace the EPs who leave thereby making our core aircrew even less experienced. And those new people will mostly do fine. And everything will continue on. FIFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitteEinBit Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I call BS on the results....the Air Force just surveyed 500 drone pilots and 412 of them want to stay in the career field!! You obviously sampled the wrong people!! You need to do another survey until the numbers reflect what I want to hear! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceman Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 You obviously sampled the wrong people!! You need to do another survey until the numbers reflect what I want to hear! Pretty sure you're just quoting Catch-22 right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcraftllc Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 ... How is pilot retention in your current unit? Great (0/0) Fair (19%/14%) Poor (24%/29%) Pilots are leaving at any/all opportunities (57%/57%) Do you expect pilot retention to suffer more as a result of TAMI guys leaving AD? Absolutely (86%/76%) Possibly (10%/5%) Neutral (4%/0) No impact on retention (0/ 19%)... ...Actions speak louder than words. Considering how well the USAF is maintaining its most senior and qualified pilots, I am sure nobody will notice when many of the IP's and EP's leave in 2-3 years... You know I just came across this thread today and it's interesting to see those poll results given the current issues that the AF is having with retaining experienced pilots today (2-3 years after that poll and thread). It would be interesting to poll all the pilots leaving and ask how much TAMI-21 had to do with it. Also sorry for the folks here with TAMI-21 PTSD, I don't mean to induce flash backs of flesh peddling trauma. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Thread revival......because well....I’m still bitter and what’s going on now makes part of me smile. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShavedDogsAss Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Thread revival......because well....I’m still bitter and what’s going on now makes part of me smile. I like to think of it as the ultimate loss of innocence when dealing with AFPC. Lt's who worked thier asses off to get to their dream job of flying a fighter get it absolutely yanked from underneath them, through absolutely no fault of their own. The justification, execution, and subsequent "re-cat" program all served to irreparably destroy my trust in the Air Force, and every commander who tried to half-heartedly back it up.I don't like putting negative posts up here, but this was absolutely inexcusable. It served only to refocus my priorities on what is best for me and my family, with no allowance for "needs of the Air Force" anymore. Every single pilot retention survey I get, my response begins with "TAMI-21..." 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy pilgrim Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 7 hours ago, ShavedDogsAss said: I like to think of it as the ultimate loss of innocence when dealing with AFPC. Lt's who worked thier asses off to get to their dream job of flying a fighter get it absolutely yanked from underneath them, through absolutely no fault of their own. The justification, execution, and subsequent "re-cat" program all served to irreparably destroy my trust in the Air Force, and every commander who tried to half-heartedly back it up. I don't like putting negative posts up here, but this was absolutely inexcusable. It served only to refocus my priorities on what is best for me and my family, with no allowance for "needs of the Air Force" anymore. Every single pilot retention survey I get, my response begins with "TAMI-21..." This. Saw this firsthand in a fighter squadron. Decided then and there that I would not extend my ADSC via bonus / GI Bill etc... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFM this Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 On 8/15/2012 at 6:55 PM, Vprdrvr69 said: How many opportunities are there to go back to your original MWS (or to a manned aircraft for RPA pilots)? Many (0/0) Few (0/5%) Almost zero (100%/95%) Are you staying on active duty in the USAF when your ADSC expires? Yes (0/0) No (48%/67%) Depends on next assignment (52%/33%) If you plan on separating, what motivators might entice you to stay on active duty (select all that apply)? [*]Assignment back to orig. MWS (or manned aircraft for RPA dudes) (19 replies out of 42 total) [*]Increase in Aviation Continuation Pay (13 replies out of 42) [*]Weak economy or lack of jobs outside of the USAF (13 out of 42 total) [*]I am leaving the USAF when my ADSC expires regardless (16 replies out of 42 total). Well, looks like the only fix is for TAMI guys to get back to fighters and the ACP to go up substantially- neither of which will happen. Thanks again to everyone who took the time to fill the survey out as well as the comments I received via PM. And wouldn't you know it, just a few months later, TAMI dudes started getting TX orders. A few that I know are still in. TAMI was a lesson in values. Shared values. And messaging. And fucking up that messaging...wholesale. Yet, noone was fired, near as I can tell. Back to values... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Our current CSAF was completely against those dudes going back. Don’t forget. You aren’t a pilot. You’re a volunteer. Wonder if he still feels that way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icohftb Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Wonder if that survey was run today how many would be left on AD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShavedDogsAss Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Our current CSAF was completely against those dudes going back. Don’t forget. You aren’t a pilot. You’re a volunteer. Wonder if he still feels that way. Not sure that's 100% accurate. His exec during his time as CFACC was a TAMI guy, who subsequently made it back to a gray jet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 100% actuate. Heard it straight from his mouth. Edit. Plus getting your exec a good gig after a supper painful job seems to be the norm regardless of his beliefs on officership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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