Drone Pilots: We Don’t Get No Respect

[Clark Griswold]

3 hours ago, guineapigfury said:

Option C is to promote officers in severly undermanned AFSCs to Major the same way we do Captain and 1Lt.  That might help retention in the career fields that are truly hurting.  Unfortunately that would foil the "get passed over so I can get out of my UPT ADSC early" technique.

Fine by me.  There has to be a reason for people to want to go RPAs, not just being forced too.  RPA assignment = virtually automatic promotion is not bad.

I have heard of the technique of career self-sabotage but didn't realize it was actually being practiced at an appreciable level and in the RPA world to shorten the time in by circumventing the ADSC, that is a helluva canary in the cole mine for how bad it is.

ISR getting pulled out of ACC (sts) is the only way to actually fix the RPA enterprise, revise AF Intelligence Command and let RPA, JSTARS, AWACS and RIVET have their own treehouse to play by their own rules rather than keeping them in an abusive relationship with ACC.

Edited May 31, 2016 by Clark Griswold

[ViperStud]

9 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

Valid points.  My solution that has negative 6.9% chance of ever being adopted would be to put these likely Captains and some Majors on a specific assignment profile and probably administratively assigned to a different squadron (OSS or the like) than the regular squadrons in the OG.  This could prevent the potential problem at the squadron level and/or mitigate it as at the Wing level as they would eventually come into competition.  Not perfect but something.

Make more attached guys that would fly the bare min and always put in availability for only 2nd go, but never after 3? F that. 

How about we just have our own promotion boards so dudes Tripping over their johnson to compete against the finance Capt or pharmacy tech with an extra 20 hrs a week to throw towards planning parties or being the Asian Pacific Islander heritage month POC?

[Clark Griswold]

9 hours ago, ViperStud said:

Make more attached guys that would fly the bare min and always put in availability for only 2nd go, but never after 3? F that. 

How about we just have our own promotion boards so dudes Tripping over their johnson to compete against the finance Capt or pharmacy tech with an extra 20 hrs a week to throw towards planning parties or being the Asian Pacific Islander heritage month POC?

Yep, discussed earlier in the thread but that is a huge fly in the ointment, was that way also in AMC but was more obnoxious in my RPA assignment. 

Do you mean promotion boards restricted to a certain AFSC(s) so RPA pilots are only competing against other RPA guys? 

Lots of good ideas brought out lately in this thread that are feasible if the AF really wants to solve the RPA morale blackhole, it could act on them with Congressional approval, that will be the rub to tell Congress we want to go 180 out from where we have been going with this career field and get it approved.

Better base locations and dispersed across way more time zones, manned aircraft companion program, career incentives for attracting fast swimmers, etc...

Edited May 31, 2016 by Clark Griswold
parting shot

[HU&W]

Two words; Active Associates.  There are tons of guard units in great spots.  Put an active associate squadron at every single guard base and disperse all the caps among them.  Each location ends up with ~4 caps.  PCS options.  Leadership opportunities.  Infrastructure's already in place, so it's fairly low budget.  Might even be a few other fringe benefits too...

[pawnman]

On 5/30/2016 at 9:19 PM, Azimuth said:

Then how to FTU/RTU squadron's function without any Lt's?

We use the students.

[pawnman]

15 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

Yep, discussed earlier in the thread but that is a huge fly in the ointment, was that way also in AMC but was more obnoxious in my RPA assignment. 

Do you mean promotion boards restricted to a certain AFSC(s) so RPA pilots are only competing against other RPA guys? 

Lots of good ideas brought out lately in this thread that are feasible if the AF really wants to solve the RPA morale blackhole, it could act on them with Congressional approval, that will be the rub to tell Congress we want to go 180 out from where we have been going with this career field and get it approved.

Better base locations and dispersed across way more time zones, manned aircraft companion program, career incentives for attracting fast swimmers, etc...

How about if we separate rated promotion boards from non-rated, similar to the way medical and JAG boards are separate from the rest of the AF?

[Clark Griswold]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

How about if we separate rated promotion boards from non-rated, similar to the way medical and JAG boards are separate from the rest of the AF?

Sounds good to me.

[Clark Griswold]

Had an idea and wanted to see the opinion of current RPA bubbas on the utility / feasibility on it...

It seems that there are a few really bad things to RPA assignments right now that greatly detract from the QOL, one of them being the mid shift that drains a person pretty quickly, thinking about this what about a program for 365 day orders for Guard/Reserve RPA aircrew with a 50K bonus for a year of mid shifts?

Rough estimation would be for:

60 CAPs x 4 crews on 365 day orders with a 50K bonus comes to about 85 million, a big number but actually feasible and worth the money if you could keep just about 85 pilots from punching out and figuring it costs in total $1 million per pilot (conservative WAG) and just figuring you keep 45 or more SOs from leaving at a WAG of 250K, that is another 9 million added on top.

There are a lot of good ideas to improve QOL but without rearranging the basing structure, adding a companion manned aircraft, doing things that would require major coordination & approval, etc.... what could you get done relatively quickly?  Throwing a shit ton of money at a problem doesn't always work but most of the time it does, not elegant but it usually gets it done.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Clark Griswold

[matmacwc]

The ANG RPA's get AGRs, they probably consider that a bonus.  We are and have tried the flying RPA thing in AZ but it got shot down for now, I bet it will happen in the future.  The idea being you are a F-16 RTU instructor and 3-4 days a month you fly a RPA cap, don't think its that bad of a deal, especially for ARTs or DSG (TRs) getting thrown some extra money/days at them.  Either way, I think it will happen here first, 3 squadrons of F-16s and a pred squadron all in one Wing, the writing is on the wall.

[brabus]

Fly an RPA instead of sit SOF/Top 3, why not. Its surprising this hasn't happened yet. I doubt the burn out would happen if it was only a few days per month and theres still real flying to be had.  Too good of a solution, the ANG might, but AD will continue to insist on taking the worst possible COAs.

[Clark Griswold]

1 hour ago, matmacwc said:

The ANG RPA's get AGRs, they probably consider that a bonus.  We are and have tried the flying RPA thing in AZ but it got shot down for now, I bet it will happen in the future.  The idea being you are a F-16 RTU instructor and 3-4 days a month you fly a RPA cap, don't think its that bad of a deal, especially for ARTs or DSG (TRs) getting thrown some extra money/days at them.  Either way, I think it will happen here first, 3 squadrons of F-16s and a pred squadron all in one Wing, the writing is on the wall.

Dual qual should be no big deal for the Guard / Reserve as a lot of dudes are de facto dual qual'd with an airline/ charter / corporate job.  Distributing more of the RPA enterprise into the Guard / Reserve is a good move to keep the bum force gainfully employed / interested in high participation via good prospects for employment.  Pushing niche capabilities together at Wings could serve this purpose too, e.g.  LAAR & RPA, JCA & RPA, etc...

 

[war007afa]

I've looked around the Puzzle Palace and wondered why we can't leverage an infrastructure to allow the rated force here to fly a CAP or two. There are more than enough radiators and snowflakes here to relieve the Wings of a bit of burden. And they could benefit from continued exposure to one of the more daunting missions in the enterprise. They're drawing ACIP and/or flight pay.

Most offices can spare a guy for a day or two a month. Currency and training concerns? It's a good-deal TDY for guys stuck in garrison at the garden spots we've chosen to base these assets. And after this long I'll fly damn near anything. 

[Learjetter]

An attached flyer often is a burden, not an asset, to a squadron. He can't deploy, must fly x events on the exact day or two he's in town, usually tying up an IP, and almost always needs some ground training item.

Not that these are insurmountable, but when you also factor in that squadrons support themselves, it's fairly easy to understand why attached staff flyers aren't always wanted in ops squadrons.

[war007afa]

15 minutes ago, Learjetter said:

An attached flyer often is a burden, not an asset, to a squadron. He can't deploy, must fly x events on the exact day or two he's in town, usually tying up an IP, and almost always needs some ground training item.

Not that these are insurmountable, but when you also factor in that squadrons support themselves, it's fairly easy to understand why attached staff flyers aren't always wanted in ops squadrons.

I get the negative aspects of attached guys, but if me flying a line every two weeks means the guys flying the line get some semblance of normalcy in their lives, sign me up. You could easily schedule 3:1 against a CAP with the bodies in this building and round-robin seat swap as required (and also guarantee coverage when some bubba has to nug out that .ppt for the boss by COB). 

We can shoot holes in it all day long, or we can get pseudo-creative and find some relief where it exists.  I don't necessarily need to be qualified to strike (seeing-eye guy can have all of the RIFLEs he wants).

I know I'm not alone when I say I'd do it (so long as you don't RECAT me for getting qualified and helping your community out).  Not married to the idea, but I've seen firsthand how beat up this community gets and if even a minor assist helps, if it gives one more day back to bubbas burning out and not knowing what day of the week it is, I'm for it.

Edited June 23, 2016 by war007afa
Grammar

[guineapigfury]

Not sure that attached staff guys helping out is a valid COA.  I've seen situations go from "nothing to see here" gathering PoL to impacts in less than 2 minutes.  A guy flying twice a month probably cannot deliver that consistently.  There isn't always time to do a seat swap or even send a safety observer.  We could put those guys to use doing transit or on a quiet line, but sometimes even your best crews are worn out and they need the easy flight for the night.

[Clark Griswold]

4 hours ago, guineapigfury said:

Not sure that attached staff guys helping out is a valid COA.  I've seen situations go from "nothing to see here" gathering PoL to impacts in less than 2 minutes.  A guy flying twice a month probably cannot deliver that consistently.  There isn't always time to do a seat swap or even send a safety observer.  We could put those guys to use doing transit or on a quiet line, but sometimes even your best crews are worn out and they need the easy flight for the night.

2

I have been an attached flyer and I came back to fly as often as I could (about once a quarter) all broke and non-current, it was usually NBD to get a quick bounce and go but it was still a problem to be solved. 

I do think letting dudes at the Building fly the RPA maybe in a dedicated status for short periods of time, thinking 2 weeks parole to man the shelter would be good as that recency of experience might by proximity educate the HAF on problems, challenges and the reality of 24-7-365 CAPs even if done in garrison.

There's plenty of space at KADW for an ops building, shelter(s) and downlink station...

[Champ Kind]

The ANG RPA's get AGRs, they probably consider that a bonus.  We are and have tried the flying RPA thing in AZ but it got shot down for now, I bet it will happen in the future.  The idea being you are a F-16 RTU instructor and 3-4 days a month you fly a RPA cap, don't think its that bad of a deal, especially for ARTs or DSG (TRs) getting thrown some extra money/days at them.  Either way, I think it will happen here first, 3 squadrons of F-16s and a pred squadron all in one Wing, the writing is on the wall.

Best idea I've heard yet.

[Jaded]

That's just what I need in the f-16, another mission to be mediocre at. 

[Duck]

At least you admit you are mediocre.... That's the first step I hear... Kidding!

[Azimuth]

Guy at my base (non-vol) just had his Creech assignment turned off because the pipeline is too full?

[viper154]

3 minutes ago, Azimuth said:

Guy at my base (non-vol) just had his Creech assignment turned off because the pipeline is too full?

Not suprised. Holloman was backed up before the manning push. I was there 180 days, only worked about 70 of them. With the classes at Randolph for the 18x ers almost doublimg in size and 6 UPT guys every six weeks, the new classes at Holloman were beimg told 8-9 months to complete the couse. 

[BFM this]

But it's okay, because you are required to stay on base, so at least you have that going for you.

[ned1]

Demand off base living.

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[guineapigfury]

I believe HMN is getting a new Wing/CC soon, hopefully the lodging policy will change.  The way they sold it was as if students were sitting at the on-base hotel on alert, waiting for the call to go do an EP sim.  I would have a lot more respect for the outgoing CC if he had said "My hotel is rundown.  I need money to fix it and the only source for that money is people using that hotel.  Therefore I am requiring you to stay there because I need the money."  On the plus side, taking away normal lodging options from FTU students should acclimate them to the fact that the USAF does not care about quality of life for RPA aircrew.

[ViperMan]

How is forcing 18Xers to live on base different from forcing 92T0s from living on base? I went through pilot training and had to live in quarters (mandatory) until it reached a certain level of occupancy.

Edited June 29, 2016 by ViperMan