sqwatch Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Anyone else think the underlying issue is that no one will stem the insatiable appetite for RPAs? We're almost unable to sustain the number of CAPs we have now, but do we actually need all of the CAPs we have or are told we need? Are the COCOMs demanding something unnecessarily? nope, they are amazing for the fight we put ourselves in. speaking from the perspective of a guy who spent 3 years in the uav community and has gone back to the manned world and been fortunate enough to fly combat sorties post uav life, they bring so much to the AO. But I would not go back to uav land even knowing the positive affect they have on the fight because the quality of life for my family was poor and i love flying like William loves interns. The UAV mission undoubtedly helps the fights we choose to involve ourselves in, I just don't want to be the guy doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Griswold Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) nope, they are amazing for the fight we put ourselves in. speaking from the perspective of a guy who spent 3 years in the uav community and has gone back to the manned world and been fortunate enough to fly combat sorties post uav life, they bring so much to the AO. But I would not go back to uav land even knowing the positive affect they have on the fight because the quality of life for my family was poor and i love flying like William loves interns. The UAV mission undoubtedly helps the fights we choose to involve ourselves in, I just don't want to be the guy doing it. 2 I did a UAV assignment then got back to the manned world and would not go back, it's important but not why I joined, I have no doubt that if they attached a golden apple to it like an ACE program and an emphasis on QOL to keep dudes from getting burned out and pissed off (non-vol centric perspective) they would take the RPA job with more enthusiasm Expanding on the idea they are good for the fight we are currently in, the anti-UAV systems are starting to come online too, move counter-move. http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/british-smes-develop-system-to-counter-uavs-412481/ http://www.uasvision.com/2015/06/10/thales-developing-counter-uav-technology/ http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/2014/03/army-focusing-on-counter-uav-weapons.html http://www.popsci.com/south-korea-gets-ready-drone-drone-warfare Minor edit. Edited June 14, 2015 by Clark Griswold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guineapigfury Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Anyone else think the underlying issue is that no one will stem the insatiable appetite for RPAs? We're almost unable to sustain the number of CAPs we have now, but do we actually need all of the CAPs we have or are told we need? Are the COCOMs demanding something unnecessarily? We're not "almost unable to sustain the number of CAPs we have now", we are unable. We're cutting from 65 to 60 CAPs and that won't even begin to fix the problem. The number of pilots talented enough to do job well and willing to do the job long term on Active Duty might properly man 15 CAPs IMHO. The Air Force erred grievously in letting this niche capability expand to it's current level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurelySerious Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 The number of pilots talented enough to do job well Yes, there's a difference even in UAVs, folks; more things on the doc statement than letting it self-wheel itself*. *Pop culture reference for those unfamiliar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hercster Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 So...despite the RPA bashing, what would some of your collective advice be for a guy like me? Low time legacy C-130 background, 1 flying tour, 1 CAOC tour, now on my 2nd non flying deployment. I'm not competitive for the airlines and with my low hours, I have a feeling it would be awkward to go back and cross train to J's. I'm seriously considering going drones, which would possibly open up contractor/law enforcement opportunities down the road if/when the AF decides to RIF folks once again, or I get passed over for not planning the last Christmas party. Thoughts? Much thanks in advance, commence the sarcasm and ridicule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guineapigfury Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I did one RPA tour and am now at the FTU to be an instructor. Ops as a line RPA flyer was the worst experience of my life. That already miserable existence is going to get much worse in 2016 and 2017 for those flying the line. As we nearly double instructor manning at the FTU, ops squadrons are going to pay the bill. So already undermanned and overworked units are going to be undermanned even further. The squadron I came from has a bill for 18 IPs and there weren't 18 IPs in the entire squadron when I left. You can see where that is going. If (and this is a gigantic if) we can double production at the FTU while maintaining quality, things should improve in Ops squadrons around early 2018. That assumes the USAF can identify a previously undiscovered pool of talented folks who want to do this job. That is a very questionable assumption IMHO. If you are going to volunteer for this to improve your quality of life then you are making an uninformed decision. If your number 1 priority is avoiding TDYs and deployments, you're making a good decision. Understand that if you come to RPAs you are probably never leaving. I will add that my worst day flying was better than my best day in RPAs. TLDR: timing is everything, things are going to get significantly worse before they might get better, flying RPAs is miserable. Overall, I do not recommend this job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaff Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 If you are interested in getting RIF'd RPAs is probably not the place you want to be, at least for the near future. There are plenty of people in RPAs who wanted out last go and would have gotten released had they been in another MWS. I agree with guineapigfury. If you want to TDY and deploy as little as possible it's a good place. There are plenty of low time C-130 dudes around Creech. Most are pissed off non-vols. The ones who volunteered seem happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Griswold Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I did one RPA tour and am now at the FTU to be an instructor. Ops as a line RPA flyer was the worst experience of my life. That already miserable existence is going to get much worse in 2016 and 2017 for those flying the line. As we nearly double instructor manning at the FTU, ops squadrons are going to pay the bill. So already undermanned and overworked units are going to be undermanned even further. The squadron I came from has a bill for 18 IPs and there weren't 18 IPs in the entire squadron when I left. You can see where that is going. If (and this is a gigantic if) we can double production at the FTU while maintaining quality, things should improve in Ops squadrons around early 2018. That assumes the USAF can identify a previously undiscovered pool of talented folks who want to do this job. That is a very questionable assumption IMHO. If you are going to volunteer for this to improve your quality of life then you are making an uninformed decision. If your number 1 priority is avoiding TDYs and deployments, you're making a good decision. Understand that if you come to RPAs you are probably never leaving. I will add that my worst day flying was better than my best day in RPAs. TLDR: timing is everything, things are going to get significantly worse before they might get better, flying RPAs is miserable. Overall, I do not recommend this job. Are there proposals for tours for ANG / AFR for RPAs to fill the gaps until the manning is on a better footing? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guineapigfury Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Are there proposals for tours for ANG / AFR for RPAs to fill the gaps until the manning is on a better footing? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk This is already happening. My old unit had a significant Guard and Reserve presence. My captain level understanding of the deal was "we'll get em through MQT if you come back and fly with us periodically until you get your CAP." This significantly increased IP workload upfront but paid dividends later when they came back and helped out. The real bonus was networking with the guys in the lifeboats because the Titanic hit the iceberg and there aren't enough seats for everyone. There are rumors of involuntary activations for RPA ANG/AFR units. My understanding from talking to the Guard and Reserve guys is that you can be on orders for as long as you want right now. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clark Griswold Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 This is already happening. My old unit had a significant Guard and Reserve presence. My captain level understanding of the deal was "we'll get em through MQT if you come back and fly with us periodically until you get your CAP." This significantly increased IP workload upfront but paid dividends later when they came back and helped out. The real bonus was networking with the guys in the lifeboats because the Titanic hit the iceberg and there aren't enough seats for everyone. There are rumors of involuntary activations for RPA ANG/AFR units. My understanding from talking to the Guard and Reserve guys is that you can be on orders for as long as you want right now. YMMV. Copy that - thanks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herkbum Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Have not heard a single word on ANG invols Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herkasaurus Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'm not competitive for the airlines and with my low hours, I have a feeling it would be awkward to go back and cross train to J's. . I don't understand this rationale...you have 130 experience. You would go to the J, get 50hrs, and upgrade to AC if you were previously an AC. What's awkward about it? Unless you're worried about hitting your PRF as a copilot, but that hasn't affected the community since 2010 ish with that round of RIFs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hercster Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 What I meant by that is that if I go back, I'll have more time as a J co-pilot than I do as an AC from E/H's. I'll be that major (hopefully by then) that they don't know what to do with, an ADO perhaps that gets the misc projects. Haven't even deployed as an AC yet, so I feel like I'll have no credibility to boot. At least that's my perception... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 No one will care as long as you're not a douche. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooseAg03 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 No kidding, if I even had the slightest opportunity to stay in an actual cockpit, I would jump on it. RPAs are a black hole that you will probably never make it out of. Keep building your C-130 experience, and remember there are quite a few guard units available when you're ready to make the jump off active duty. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinGrunt Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Hercster, I have had a similar experience in the gunship world, though perhaps (IDK?) with more hours involved. I would equate the slick J differences up front/performance to the legacy/PSP differences in the gunpig world, though I do not pretend to lecture you about your own community there. The question is: do you understand the mission, and how to manage it? If so, I'm with with MooseAg, press for that J and volunteer for everything. If you're a good AC and encourage your crew's inputs on systems, I can't imagine why you wouldn't be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaputt Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 UPT Students sitting casual waiting for class start are being briefed that RPAs are going to be dropping from UPT again. Not sure what classes might be the first but it seems they will be spread out amongst all four bases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12xu2a3x3 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) UPT Students sitting casual waiting for class start are being briefed that RPAs are going to be dropping from UPT again. Not sure what classes might be the first but it seems they will be spread out amongst all four bases. awesome wouldn't adding people to a pipeline that already can't keep up with demand simply exacerbate the problem? Edited June 22, 2015 by 12xu2a3x3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosuper Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Went back 12 pages to make sure wasn't posted before but I saw this today, so RPA guys boo their commanders. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/20/how-america-broke-its-drone-force.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFM this Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Words fail me. UPT direct was a worse idea than the "one way door" mantra peddled when I got my assignment. The AF's inability to turn the simplest of Lessons Learned into practice is breathtaking. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaff Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Why is opening a second RIQ/RFC squadron at Randolph and giving more RPA slots to ROTC and the academy not a better solution? They don't even need to pull RPA dudes to run the squadron. Most of the instructors are contractors and it didn't seem to hard to find Air Force pilots willing to live in San Antonio and teach dudes how to fly IFR in the sim. Edited June 23, 2015 by Chaff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HU&W Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Why is opening a second RIQ/RFC squadron at Randolph and giving more RPA slots to ROTC and the academy not a better solution? They don't even need to pull RPA dudes to run the squadron. Most of the instructors are contractors and it didn't seem to hard to find Air Force pilots willing to live in San Antonio and teach dudes how to fly IFR in the sim. Completely agree with the first part, but I disagree with the second. I think we need folks that are experienced in RPA ops training up the next generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox two Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Words fail me. UPT direct was a worse idea than the "one way door" mantra peddled when I got my assignment. The AF's inability to turn the simplest of Lessons Learned into practice is breathtaking. Wasn't around when that happened, what made it worse than the current situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurelySerious Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Why is opening a second RIQ/RFC squadron at Randolph and giving more RPA slots to ROTC and the academy not a better solution? They don't even need to pull RPA dudes to run the squadron. Most of the instructors are contractors and it didn't seem to hard to find Air Force pilots willing to live in San Antonio and teach dudes how to fly IFR in the sim. URT isn't a great solution in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFM this Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Wasn't around when that happened, what made it worse than the current situation?Not sure if I'm following your question, but it's kind of like your company commander turning to you and saying: "Buck up, Soldier. It will work this time, I'm sure of it!" ...oh, and he's telling you that while you're getting off the boat at Gallipoli. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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