joe1234 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I have. But I don't think that risk to self is the only motivator for having pride in your work. Nor do I think RPA self loathing has much to do with not getting shot at, either. If we as an AF can't be proud that this weapons system has had a profound impact on the current enemy then will we ever? Probably need to fire a few more CSAFs and SECAFs before it starts to catch on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17D_guy Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 If it's like "cyber" leadership not until you've got guys who started at the bottom and worked up in the weapon system and can tell what it contributes, where it has been, and been through the suck together. As it appears on this board you've got leadership waiting to retire, or go back to "real" flying and not interested in leading in this new (and awesome) capability. I'm really happy we have missilers still running cyber.. makes total sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravedigger Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) I'm really happy we have missilers still running cyber.. makes total sense. Getting rid of Gen Kehler (missileer) and getting Gen Shelton (career space/astro engineer) was the best thing that could have happened to Air Force Space Command. Gen Chilton was a great leader and working some good things, until the missileers crapped on everything he accomplished when he left. In the last 2 years we have ditched flightsuits, cut ties with ICBMs, increased training requirements/difficulty, raised the standards for people entering the career field, and increased the capabilities we provide to the warfighter. Unfortunately, with the budget the way it is, it might be a while before you guys get your own MAJCOM. Hopefully though you will get some new leaders that understand cyber as an actual warfighting (even kinetically) domain. I do feel bad for you guys though, because now that missiles is its own AFSC and separate from space, they are going to be looking for a lot of places to send the excess missileers after their first assignment...guess which career field is looking for bodies? Edited March 20, 2013 by Gravedigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf424 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Right, so you're cool with giving cyber dudes Air Medals then? No, they shouldn't get AIR medals (nor AAMs for that matter). I'm not arguing medal precedence here But you are. You said: Your anger towards this medal in the name of injured soldiers shows that you have no clue what cyber tactics are being employed in theater today. That's the point everyone is trying to make. It shouldn't be as high as it is. I'm not as upset as some and I'm not going to lose sleep at night over it...but I completely agree that this medal should not be above the purple heart or bronze star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravedigger Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 No, they shouldn't get AIR medals (nor AAMs for that matter). So what should they get? That's what this whole discussion is about. You said pilots who saved lives were given Air Medals. What about non-pilots? That's the point everyone is trying to make. It shouldn't be as high as it is. I'm not as upset as some and I'm not going to lose sleep at night over it...but I completely agree that this medal should not be above the purple heart or bronze star. I never once said where it should fall in order of precedence, but I do think it is supposed to be difficult to earn and rarely awarded. You can't honestly believe that falls bellow the Bronze Star, which without valor means little more than you are a Lt Col or Chief that deployed. Also, this medal doesn't diminish the sacrifice of a guy that has been injured during combat, in any way. You guys are comparing apples to oranges here. A LOM doesn't diminish a Purple Heart's significance because they are completely unrelated. Where does an achievement that has a significant impact on the safety of our nation and/or saving the lives of others fall? To me, it's above a Bronze Star, and has nothing to do with valor. It is entirely effects-based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf424 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Copy...let's put it just below the medal of honor...since comparing them is apples and oranges. Put it in line with an Air Medal and the AAM. End of story and everyone would be fine with it. I get the whole "V" device argument...but when it comes down to it, this medal still outranks the Bronze Star with V device. I'm sorry, that's not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HU&W Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I get the whole "V" device argument...but when it comes down to it, this medal still outranks the Bronze Star with V device. I'm sorry, that's not right. I'd like to know if you think the AFCAM placement is appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravedigger Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I'd like to know if you think the AFCAM placement is appropriate. My personal favorite is the Prisoner of War Medal, which falls directly behind Organizational Excellence and just above Combat Readiness and Good Conduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB Stacker Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Copy...let's put it just below the medal of honor...since comparing them is apples and oranges. Put it in line with an Air Medal and the AAM. End of story and everyone would be fine with it. I get the whole "V" device argument...but when it comes down to it, this medal still outranks the Bronze Star with V device. I'm sorry, that's not right. So something that is supposed to be for an achievement equivalent to that required to earn a DFC (and for which the USAF has identified something like a whopping 6 individuals it is even considering for award, going back retroactively for over a decade of war) should be in-line/below something that you get for boring holes in the sky in a "combat zone." Got it. Remember that half of every MQ-1/9 crew is enlisted (not sure what the breakdown is on the cyber side but I'm sure it's not all officers) and that decs, and more specifically the precedence/points associated with decs, play a role in promotion. This isn't just an academic argument over which fiddly bits of ribbon the O's get to wear on their chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnimalMother Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Our entire medal/recognition program is an embarrassment. Like so many other aspects of our military, it has been perverted to serve the interests of careerist. Our modern generals look more like third world dictators than leaders of the "free world." Dig up a picture of General Eisenhower, conqueror of half the world, and see how many medals he wore on his chest. Just another symptom of the dysfunction that exists in our military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruckerstud Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Do dudes who get DFCs get this much static? The only DFCs I have heard in the last couple of years were for rescue guys who ended up flying two or three helos (after the others were shot up bad enough to not be airworthy) into a fight to get some army guys out. But what they didn't do was personally get shot/burned/die/etc. So, because they didn't have as much risk or pay as high a price as a dude who got a purple heart or a lot of the guys who get BSMs w/ a V, should their DFCs be worth less that those medals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrodgsxr Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Remember that half of every MQ-1/9 crew is enlisted (not sure what the breakdown is on the cyber side but I'm sure it's not all officers) and that decs, and more specifically the precedence/points associated with decs, play a role in promotion. This isn't just an academic argument over which fiddly bits of ribbon the O's get to wear on their chest. Doesn't matter for enlisted mq1/9 sensor operators. They max out on dec points very quickly in their first tour from AAMs unless they cross train as a senior nco and are in a leadership position. . But the dec points stop mattering for them at that point anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breckey Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Do dudes who get DFCs get this much static? The only DFCs I have heard in the last couple of years were for rescue guys who ended up flying two or three helos (after the others were shot up bad enough to not be airworthy) into a fight to get some army guys out. But what they didn't do was personally get shot/burned/die/etc. So, because they didn't have as much risk or pay as high a price as a dude who got a purple heart or a lot of the guys who get BSMs w/ a V, should their DFCs be worth less that those medals? The Pedro guys (83/84 if i remember correctly) all got DFC's w/ Valor and the AC's got Silver Stars. http://www.afcent.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123254042 has the story when it first broke. Two of the FE's got shot. //historical threadjack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azimuth Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Do dudes who get DFCs get this much static? Some do. http://www.af.mil/information/bios/bio.asp?bioID=7912 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17D_guy Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Whoa, he totally earned that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RASH Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Northern people. http://m.youtube.com...h?v=RuGQKwbExo8 Wrong thread bro... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backseatdriver Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Some do. http://www.af.mil/information/bios/bio.asp?bioID=7912 5,000+ hours - he must be an incredible leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiFlyer Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 5,000+ hours - he must be an incredible leader. Why do you think lots of hours has anything to do with being a good (or bad) leader?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backseatdriver Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Why do you think lots of hours has anything to do with being a good (or bad) leader?? I don't. I was being sarcastic - highlighting the hole in the logic of the discussion in another thread on how those with low hours can't be good/credible leaders while here's someone with a ton of hours that does not seem to have many fans in the MAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf424 Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) So something that is supposed to be for an achievement equivalent to that required to earn a DFC (and for which the USAF has identified something like a whopping 6 individuals it is even considering for award, going back retroactively for over a decade of war) should be in-line/below something that you get for boring holes in the sky in a "combat zone." Got it. Remember that half of every MQ-1/9 crew is enlisted (not sure what the breakdown is on the cyber side but I'm sure it's not all officers) and that decs, and more specifically the precedence/points associated with decs, play a role in promotion. This isn't just an academic argument over which fiddly bits of ribbon the O's get to wear on their chest. Jesus Tap-dancing Christ, no one is talking about the broken promotion system. I have two E's on every sortie I fly...so pipe down Nancy. I know how important points are. Make it above the AM and AAM. It just shouldn't be where it is. I could literally not care less about how many merit badges adorn my service dress. No one is saying that the medal is a bad idea, it's strictly the placement of it. Are there other medals that maybe should be lower than they are? Sure. Take it up with your congressman. Keep in mind, some guys do get AMs for missions in those "combat zones" that you speak of, but they still have 100% more of a chance of getting a SA-7 up their ass then you do. edit: grammar Edited March 25, 2013 by Wolf424 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breckey Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 And its CANX'd Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel has decided to scrap the controversial Distinguished Warfare Medal that was intended to honor drone pilots and other high-tech troops. Just two months after its creation, Hagel said the Pentagon will replace the DWM with a device that can be attached to other previously existing medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurelySerious Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 And its CANX'd Glad we can just get on with life now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Scourge Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Common sense? Glad to hear it, was a stupid idea to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 minus one for the rest.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22691991#TWEET770810 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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