The Mother of all CGOCs

[HU&W]

Really glad I got you guys talking. As the first post referred to my bio, I'm prior enlisted medical, for 12 years, working 12 to 14 hour shifts easy, and still volunteering with my community and delivering cookies to the flyers, working with thier spouses and visiting SFS on the gate. I see a lot of excuses in the post after mine. I'm a fighter squadron (deployed) finance officer/ fighter wing (home station), finance officer working super long hours is the norm for me. Find the time to help out ALL of your community, even if its an hour a month. Don't lump me or others into one group, we're all deploying, all different and definitely ALL minimal manned. By the Way Comptroller/Finance Officers are the MOST deployed in the Air Force, Check your stats and stop blindly putting your fellow sisters and brothers down.

[nsplayr]

I'm a girl, no d**k measuring, and tell my deployed finance officers that bull. We're 6 months to a year minimum. They'll send you a personal email from their locations. Try Air Force times as a statistical resource has a super great article on the subject (we ARE #1 deployed). But you're right gray beard, this forum is definitely used to continue a crazy hate on hate against your support officers and enlisted. With that said, I'll take my briefcase and leave (wink). Small Air Force, I'm sure I'll see you around before I retire, you definitely know my name. Cheers!

Look, you came in here guns blazin' saying we should "stop bashing support" and that you and your fellow finance officers are the #1 deployed career field. If you'd stuck around a little while before opening up your pie hole, you'd have seen there are several members here from support career fields that provide good info and perspective to a mostly ops crowd. On your deployment claim, I provided a link that showed, with data straight from Big Blue, that the 65FX career field is nowhere near the most deployed career field. So not only are you barking up the wrong tree with a deployment dick measuring contest in a room full of frequent deployers, you were wrong.

So here's some takeaways from this debrief:

1. Talk in complete, coherent sentences.

2. Know your audience.

3. Get the facts right.

You and your briefcase are welcome back when you're digested those three lessons. It's not about being ops vs support or about your gender or your rank or your political beliefs or whatever...you came in here talking sh*t for no real good reason and couldn't back it up with the facts.

[kaccs]

Enough with the hate, since we both deploy quite often, I'll see you around! Cheers!

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2012/03/air-force-ground-based-airmen-2011-most-deployed-031712w/

Also high on the list of the longest deployed are airmen who focus on capabilities such as finance, contracting and acquisition. The officers with the longest deployments were financial management airmen, who deployed for an average of 263 days in 2011, showing that those who wage war behind a desk are just as valuable as those who can drop a deep penetrator on a hardened underground bunker

[Azimuth]

It's sorta douchey to like your own post.

Technique Only

[17D_guy]

Enough with the hate, since we both deploy quite often, I'll see you around! Cheers!

http://www.airforcet...ployed-031712w/

Also high on the list of the longest deployed are airmen who focus on capabilities such as finance, contracting and acquisition. The officers with the longest deployments were financial management airmen, who deployed for an average of 263 days in 2011, showing that those who wage war behind a desk are just as valuable as those who can drop a deep penetrator on a hardened underground bunker

You forgot these sections:

Among the airmen who deployed for the longest in 2011 were explosive ordnance disposal technicians, tactical air control party airmen, vehicle and vehicular maintenance airmen, and security forces

On the enlisted side, cyberspace superintendents were deployed the most — an average of 216 days last year.

and finally

The figures show unique deployments, so an airman who deployed more than once is only counted once.

Finance using not accurate numbers.

[nsplayr]

Stop liking your own posts. Know your audience...no one cares if your dick is longer than anyone else's WRT deploying. You are not helping your states cause to get ops people to "stop hating on support."

And I think I found the problem with the AF Crimes' data:

The figures show unique deployments, so an airman who deployed more than once is only counted once.

That's not going to be very friendly to the typical aircrew deployment cycle. Multiple shorter deployments (60-120 days at a go) per year. My community until very recently did 75-on, 75-off so everyone got multiple trips per year but it seems like the way that data is crunched, they'd show up once with 75 days as the "average deployment length" which ends up being meaningless.

[herkbum]

I would think numbers from AFPC would be more accurate than numbers provided by Air Force Times' crack research staff.

[Apollo]

Enough with the hate, since we both deploy quite often, I'll see you around! Cheers!

http://www.airforcet...ployed-031712w/

Also high on the list of the longest deployed are airmen who focus on capabilities such as finance, contracting and acquisition. The officers with the longest deployments were financial management airmen, who deployed for an average of 263 days in 2011, showing that those who wage war behind a desk are just as valuable as those who can drop a deep penetrator on a hardened underground bunker

As mentioned previously, "unique deployments" is a skewed data point. This article also does not account for TDYs, especially on the mobility side.

[Guest]

I can't even pitch into this fight because I am laughing so hard I'm crying. Then I realized I'm really crying because she actually believes the things she is saying.

She believes she is experiencing greater stress and greater risks than people who are risking their own lives and taking the lives of others. Not only has she never fired a weapon in anger, she's never even heard a weapon fired in anger...not to mention engaging in direct combat with the enemy.

How sad is this? I'm crying, that's how sad it is.

[Slander]

So a couple weeks ago the runway here was closed. The fighter squadron verified some clearances and gave about 69 support people incentive sims. They were UTDs -- cockpit replicators with a flat screen but all the switches and everything work. Some of the bros taught them how to takeoff and land, fly an ILS, whatever. I tried to show them how their job fit into killing North Koreans, and why pilots (in general) are so grumpy when we have to walk over to a building and are turned away for "Training Days" every Tuesday from 1200-1630. Then afterwards, I took them over to a map and said "Here's Kunsan. Here's Osan. Here's Seoul. Here's where the North Koreans have 1000s of pieces of artillery pointed at Seoul. Here's where we are going on night 1 of the war. Here's where the North Koreans have SAMs pointed at us."

The look on their faces when I showed to them how to shoot an AMRAAM, then avoid the SAM rings to drop 2 JDAMS and then get themselves and 3 of their best friends home out of harm's way said it all. One of them even said "I had no idea how hard this is, I had no concept of what you guys do. This is amazing."

She got it.

"What" (nice self naming of yourself, by the way), you should go get some perspective from those pilots you're deploying more than. Go find out what they do every day and what they train to do. If you show genuine interest, I guarantee it any pilot over there will explain it to you.

Please figure out how you can do your job better so that they have more time to train to kill the enemy and protect your ability to donate your time on the weekends. If everyone did that, if everyone figured out how their job fits into the machine, then we wouldn't bitch. The problem is when people lose that perspective, lose the idea that their job is not the most important one on base and the world doesn't revolve around you. I'm sure you feel like you work hard, and you probably work long hours, so do we. But it sounds like you need a serious adjustment in perspective.

Or don't, and continue to be part of the problem.

Caveat: One CAF punk's idea. Got it, no MAF stuff, maybe a MAF dude can offer his opinion too but I don't want to spew some made up bullshit about what the MAF does.

[Cap-10]

AFPC stats vs AF Crimes with only unique deployments....WOW!

JTACS / EOD / SFS have been 6 on/6 off for some time now...please tell me what is the deployment to dwell ratio for you and the other fighter squadron finance officers?

How many times during a normal 3 year assignment do you typically deploy? Do you know many people that then get a 1yr remote / 365TDY just becuase it's "their time"?

Sh!t, I was deployed/TDY 200+ plus days and that was back in 2004...welcome to the fight!

MC-12's are 210 boots on the ground, and that's after 3 months of stateside TDY's away from their families.

Finance is the MOST deployed my ass!

Like Rainman, I am crying!

Cheers,

Cap-10

[HU&W]

I'm a girl

Your profile says "Gender: Male"

[17D_guy]

Please figure out how you can do your job better so that they have more time to train to kill the enemy and protect your ability to donate your time on the weekends. If everyone did that, if everyone figured out how their job fits into the machine, then we wouldn't bitch. The problem is when people lose that perspective, lose the idea that their job is not the most important one on base and the world doesn't revolve around you. I'm sure you feel like you work hard, and you probably work long hours, so do we. But it sounds like you need a serious adjustment in perspective.

Best thing for my career in the AF was figuring out that email really wasn't that important. Servers, routers, switches, etc - not important of themselves, or because I worked on them. Before Comm went Ops the important stuff was the UAV video, ATO's, emergency orders and that sort of enabling that was our real mission.

We had a Wing CC - BG Wright, who's slogan was "Where are you in the kill chain". Sounds lame, especially since we were at Beale, but he pushed it and people started to come around and realize what the real mission was about. He'd do Sq tours and ask the Amn where they were and they'd have to answer.

I still think about it when I'm trying to explain to Senior Leaders that stuff, does in fact, just break and we can't tell them when it will happen or why, or how long it'll take to fix.

Especially blackberry's, damn those things to hell.

Edited October 8, 2012 by 17D_guy

[WeatherManC130]

Caveat: One CAF punk's idea. Got it, no MAF stuff, maybe a MAF dude can offer his opinion too but I don't want to spew some made up bullshit about what the MAF does.

Pretty much the same in the MAF world. I was no joke deploying in 2 days and I had to finish my AFCENT checklist. When I went to the agency to get a section signed off they were closed for training. At Salem last year we put together a "be aircrew for a day" event and after 10 minutes in the 120+ degree heat they were ready to go back to their air conditioned offices. We reminded them that our MX bros spend 12+ hours turning wrenches in the heat. We also asked what they thought the mission of the C-130s were and most replied: deliver the mail and food. I guess they failed to realize that there was still a war going on just north of them. I had the chance to sit in on a Comm Sq/CC COC and one of his citations read: upgraded the morale drive with over XX gbs of movies. REALLY???

[amcflyboy]

OMFG....Are these people really that out of touch??!!

[Guest]

Stop talking to her or they will all be over here soon. They probably already are. There's no way they will have any perspective on what is being said. They will think all pilots hate non-pilots when all they really hate is navs.

[tac airlifter]

The officers with the longest deployments were financial management airmen, who deployed for an average of 263 days in 2011, showing that those who wage war behind a desk are just as valuable as those who can drop a deep penetrator on a hardened underground bunker

numerous flaws in your data have already been mentioned, so I won't pile on except to say maybe you should read the comments in the article you linked. Lots of the same feedback you've heard here. I will say though, in reference to the statement above, this exhibits exactly the false logic so many of your support brethren manifest..... Simply 'being there' does NOT equate to value.

Caveat: One CAF punk's idea. Got it, no MAF stuff, maybe a MAF dude can offer his opinion too but I don't want to spew some made up bullshit about what the MAF does.

All valid from both a SOF and MAF perspective. Good post.

We had a Wing CC - BG Wright, who's slogan was "Where are you in the kill chain". Sounds lame, especially since we were at Beale, but he pushed it and people started to come around and realize what the real mission was about. He'd do Sq tours and ask the Amn where they were and they'd have to answer.

Doesn't sound lame to me at all, sounds like that CC knew what was most important in his organization.

I was no joke deploying in 2 days and I had to finish my AFCENT checklist. When I went to the agency to get a section signed off they were closed for training.

You actually do those checklists? I recommend reading rainmans posts about knowing which rules you can BFM instead of complaining about them (caveat, I'm not a fighter guy but I still get the concept). I used to send one member of my crew to get his signed, then photocopy for everyone. Then I figured out I could sign them all myself and no one was the wiser. Finally I learned that if I turn it in blank, they still let me on the rotator; so I've pretty much achieved enlightenment WRT out processing checklists.

Edit to add: notice I'm not "liking" my own post? It's a bit cheesy.

Edited October 8, 2012 by tac airlifter

[Hacker]

It's sorta douchey to like your own post.

Technique Only

Twice, even.

She believes she is experiencing greater stress and greater risks than people who are risking their own lives and taking the lives of others. Not only has she never fired a weapon in anger, she's never even heard a weapon fired in anger...not to mention engaging in direct combat with the enemy.

...or, more importantly, been shot at by the enemy.

This is typical of the problem with the "support warrior" self-reinforcing mindset. There is no perspective to show them just how asinine their beliefs are, and worse yet the 'leaders' have such a belief and cultivate it in their young'uns. Until we have another war in which large numbers of folks are coming home in flag-draped caskets, the USAF is not going to be able to shake this "I'm a warrior, too1!!111!" mindset.

[HU&W]

"I'm a warrior, too1!!111!" mindset.

Intermittent shift key?

[ThreeHoler]

Intermittent shift key?

Internet meme.

[capt4fans]

I'm a girl, no d**k measuring, and tell my deployed finance officers that bull. We're 6 months to a year minimum. They'll send you a personal email from their locations. Try Air Force times as a statistical resource has a super great article on the subject (we ARE #1 deployed). But you're right gray beard, this forum is definitely used to continue a crazy hate on hate against your support officers and enlisted. With that said, I'll take my briefcase and leave (wink). Small Air Force, I'm sure I'll see you around before I retire, you definitely know my name. Cheers!

You might have missed it, but I did use AF times, and like I said...it's dated....but I doubt we've swung so far that ops are deployed less than finance.

[capt4fans]

Not to overly pile on, but read this carefully. This talks about deployment length for those that deployed, n

We have a winner.....you're not the most deployed...you just get the longest ones.....one does not equal the other....but then again, we're talking numbers to Finance. That was our first problem.

[TarHeelPilot]

It's tough sitting behind an iron cage from 0900-1500 M-F in the middle of Camp Cupcake. They close for combat lunch from 1100-1300.

[Danny Noonin]

Enough with the hate, since we both deploy quite often, I'll see you around! Cheers!

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2012/03/air-force-ground-based-airmen-2011-most-deployed-031712w/ The officers with the longest deployments were financial management airmen, who deployed for an average of 263 days in 2011

Not to overly pile on, but read this quote you posted carefully then think this through.

This talks about deployment length for those that deployed, not average days deployed per person per year for the entire career field. So even if the 263 is accurate, it only accounts for those that actually deployed, not an average for each finance officer. So even if finance averages the longest deployments, that is not remotely close to the same as being the most deployed.

[Vetter]

I'm going to like all her posts and hope she's a 1. We all know that a good "support" troop can make a shitty deployment into a mediocre one. With all her deployments, maybe I'll see her downrange!