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New BAH rates are out.

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Your BAH isn't going to drop unless you have a significant life event (divorce, birth, PCA). You're grandfathered into your old BAH rate until as such a time as you do have a significant life event or your PCS, in which case your BAH would change regardless.

Edited by Vertigo
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On 12/17/2017 at 4:00 AM, Mark1 said:

What?  That's why BAH rates are regional and COLA exists.  Whether they're effective at making up the regional differences is a different story but I fail to see how that applies at all to getting rid of dependent vs  non-dependent BAH.  If you don't think BAH at Hickam adequately addresses the cost of housing then great, but whatever the correct dollar amount for BAH is there, everybody (at respective ranks) should get the same amount.

Single guys don''t get extra allowance to offset the cost of whore-mongering...guys with 19 kids shouldn't expect extra to afford the mansion necessary to house their family.  Pay should be commensurate with value to the institution (adjusted for locale), and everything else should be a matter of adults making adult decisions on how to deal with the financial consequences of their choices in life.  

To address your question: I don't know your background but unless you're still in UPT I find it hard to believe that you aren't aware that single guys getting ed over by circumstances having to due with squadronmate's dependent related issues is, in fact, a thing.  On that alone the point I was trying to make is valid, regardless of my history.  However, when I was active I belonged to a unit that did not operate on AEF bands.  That meant ~3 deployments per year (if you weren't self-restricted from deploying over the holidays, or during the kid's summer break, or when your wife's PMS was flaring).  That adds up and they start running together so, yes, I literally do not know how many deployments I did in my tenure without consulting my records.  And yes, I've lost count of how many were covering for others although that's probably due primarily to fading memory as I've been out for some years.  It was a handful.

Let me make clear this is not bitching.  At least in my case I enjoyed the deployments.  It was always a kick in the nuts to have to extend a deployment when you were 1 week out from going home, or cancelling plans to take one on short notice, but I generally enjoyed leaving the squadron queep behind to go kill bad guys. 

Nevertheless, my argument remains: IF anybody should get paid extra, it's the unencumbered guys.  However, nobody should get extra.  Everybody should be paid the same amount for the same duty regardless of their personal circumstances.

Bruh, you sound kinda angry.  What's your choice of beer, I'm buying...

 

Our area just dropped by $250.  BS.

Edited by MDDieselPilot

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The "guys with 19 kids"/BAH-is-welfare angle of the argument seems a bit strange to me since there's only a with-dependents rate and a without-dependents rate, i.e. the dependent rate does not increase based on the actual number of dependents. The extra ~$350 a month will surely get stretched pretty thin once the clown car's on the road.

Edited by mb1685
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3 hours ago, Vertigo said:

Your BAH isn't going to drop unless you have a significant life event (divorce, birth, PCA). You're grandfathered into your old BAH rate until as such a time as you do have a significant life event or your PCS, in which case your BAH would change regardless.

For the Guard bubbas out there, you'll be good if you're an AGR.  However, not so for any of you Guard bums who jump from order to order, even if there isn't a break between sets.  At least that's how it went down for me back in the 2012ish time frame.  I came off a set of orders on one day and went right back onto another set the following day and the next paycheck my BAH was the new, lower rate, yay...  That year the w/o dependent dropped ~$90, while the w/ dependent went up ~$150.  

In my area my BAH rate went up $3 while the w/dependent rate went up ~$100.  Jealous assholes hating on the single crowd!  

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19 hours ago, nsplayr said:

We really need standard emojis on BO.net...I'd be using the eyeroll one right about now...

Mark, good luck with your jihad against different BAH rates and thank you for your service.

//break break//

Whoever sold Congress the, "We need more money in readiness funds, let's take it from service member's BAH!" line can suck it. It's not our fault the Pentagon and political leadership has pissed away incalculable blood and treasure with several unending wars, a failure to invest in readiness previously, or that every new weapons system is insanely expensive because of our broken acquisitions process.

I agree with whoever said BAH is a retention issue and I don't care what color the money is (basic pay, bonuses, BAH, etc.). If the amount is lower or not rising at a competitive rate while my cost of living is inevitably higher, that's not a check in the "plus column" when it comes to retention.

Competition? Bad government spending?  You're slipping into conservative territory, bad nsplayr.  Bad,Bad, Bad.     :)

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Dependent rate down $3 in my neck of the woods, but w/o dependent rate up $18.  Seems this Mark1 might be on to something...

Strangely the non-prior O-3's got a $20 raise (both of value/not-value).

Guess I'm worthless to the org.

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So I’ll pitch in with a possibly unpopular opinion that I guarantee will trigger Mark1, but the day to day sacrifice of deployments is exponentially worse on guys with kids than single dudes. I missed my wife’s birthday 4 years in a row, 3 Christmases, and a lot of other kid milestones (First steps, etc). Single guys missed Hangout Fest and the Star Wars premiere. I’m obviously exaggerating here, but when you said that, I was looking for my standardized eyeroll emoji.

 

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So I’ll pitch in with a possibly unpopular opinion that I guarantee will trigger Mark1, but the day to day sacrifice of deployments is exponentially worse on guys with kids than single dudes. I missed my wife’s birthday 4 years in a row, 3 Christmases, and a lot of other kid milestones (First steps, etc). Single guys missed Hangout Fest and the Star Wars premiere. I’m obviously exaggerating here, but when you said that, I was looking for my standardized eyeroll emoji.
 

Great point. I know of guys who came home after one-year remotes to kids who had attempted suicide, severe discipline issues and other side effects of Dad being in a war-zone for a year.

Whenever I mention a “trip” my 8 year old immediately starts crying. It doesn’t help that I missed around 8 months of the first year of her life.

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So I’ll pitch in with a possibly unpopular opinion that I guarantee will trigger Mark1, but the day to day sacrifice of deployments is exponentially worse on guys with kids than single dudes. I missed my wife’s birthday 4 years in a row, 3 Christmases, and a lot of other kid milestones (First steps, etc). Single guys missed Hangout Fest and the Star Wars premiere. I’m obviously exaggerating here, but when you said that, I was looking for my standardized eyeroll emoji.  

 

Yeah but you get an extra $250 a month for family separation so that totally makes up for it. 

I say this as I'm about to say bye to my two month old kid to do a nice non flying six monther... I can't wait to spend that extra $1500 of FSP!

 

Where's my fvckin eye rolling emoji?!

 

 

 

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Quick question.  I'm in the process of a PCS.  We originally planned to check in on 1 Jan.  Our BAH goes down $60/mo from CY17 to CY18.  If I check in on 31 Dec instead, I get the CY17 rate due to being grandfathered, right?

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“Check in” is open to interpretation. You’re going to have to closely flight follow your date arrived station (DAS)with finance and MPF. You can verify it yourself on your SURF and vMPF and then I’d check your BAH rates on your first couple months’ LESes and compare what you get with the CY17/18 rates.

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On 12/21/2017 at 5:22 AM, Danger41 said:

So I’ll pitch in with a possibly unpopular opinion that I guarantee will trigger Mark1, but the day to day sacrifice of deployments is exponentially worse on guys with kids than single dudes. I missed my wife’s birthday 4 years in a row, 3 Christmases, and a lot of other kid milestones (First steps, etc). Single guys missed Hangout Fest and the Star Wars premiere. I’m obviously exaggerating here, but when you said that, I was looking for my standardized eyeroll emoji.

 

Right, I think most of us single guys realize that deployments are tougher on those with wives and/or kids. That's why I and, in my experience, many bachelors try to raise our hands first for trips to the sandbox (as well as stuff like alert weekends, super late or early shows and "bad deal" TDYs). It's a reasonable give and take.

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Right, I think most of us single guys realize that deployments are tougher on those with wives and/or kids. That's why I and, in my experience, many bachelors try to raise our hands first for trips to the sandbox (as well as stuff like alert weekends, super late or early shows and "bad deal" TDYs). It's a reasonable give and take.
It's one thing as a single guy to volunteer to take bad deals so married people can be home for life events, it's another thing when the scheduler puts you on the bad deal without asking because "it doesn't matter if you miss Thanksgiving/Christmas/holiday/weekends because you're single, so you're on the trip/deployment/alert"
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6 hours ago, jazzdude said:
19 hours ago, Splash95 said:
Right, I think most of us single guys realize that deployments are tougher on those with wives and/or kids. That's why I and, in my experience, many bachelors try to raise our hands first for trips to the sandbox (as well as stuff like alert weekends, super late or early shows and "bad deal" TDYs). It's a reasonable give and take.

It's one thing as a single guy to volunteer to take bad deals so married people can be home for life events, it's another thing when the scheduler puts you on the bad deal without asking because "it doesn't matter if you miss Thanksgiving/Christmas/holiday/weekends because you're single, so you're on the trip/deployment/alert"

This is true. This should never be a scheduler’s call. In my case (married, father of 4) I was waiting to go to training for my 365—sent to Al Udeid for a month to cover for a single female in the squadron who had some family issues going on. DO gave me that bit of news. Thanks for nothing Libya. 

Anyway, I’ve covered for single guys plenty. Just as I’m sure they’ve covered for me. It goes both ways. 

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The whole single guys doing more work and deserve more pay is a non starter for me. I’ve paid my price as a married guy (missed one kids birth, missed holidays/birthdays, etc) and done just as many if not more deployments/alert tours/TDYs as anyone else in my MWS and year group. If the married guy in your squadron isn’t sharing the load then that’s your leaderships fault. Saying BAH needs to be changed because your ADOs/DO/CC aren’t managing people well is a pretty big stretch. Notice your base pay is the same, that’s because your doing the same job. BAH has nothing to do how much work your doing, it is merely the fact that your married, so you probably need a bigger house. Sorry for the further thread derail, just had to say my peace.

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BAH has nothing to do how much work your doing, it is merely the fact that your married, so you probably need a bigger house. Sorry for the further thread derail, just had to say my peace.

This. I think this often gets forgotten.

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I have volunteered for the single guys many times in my career. The hot chick at the bar always bring the "bar-mom" with them. I have been pretty successful in running diversion so my single brethren can enjoy being single.

Edited by Duck

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Seriously guys, just admit that you like your entitlement and that they'll have to rip those Obama phones out of your cold dead hands and then we can leave it alone.  But don't try to explain it away logically.  The feeble, reaching, attempts are desperate and that's not a good look.

On 12/23/2017 at 5:40 PM, Splash95 said:

Right, I think most of us single guys realize that deployments are tougher on those with wives and/or kids. That's why I and, in my experience, many bachelors try to raise our hands first for trips to the sandbox (as well as stuff like alert weekends, super late or early shows and "bad deal" TDYs). It's a reasonable give and take.

You pick up the shitty duty, and they get paid more.  I see the give, but where's the take again?

15 hours ago, jazzdude said:

It's one thing as a single guy to volunteer to take bad deals so married people can be home for life events, it's another thing when the scheduler puts you on the bad deal without asking because "it doesn't matter if you miss Thanksgiving/Christmas/holiday/weekends because you're single, so you're on the trip/deployment/alert"

Happens every day.

9 hours ago, baileynme said:

The whole single guys doing more work and deserve more pay is a non starter for me...

Um, yeah.  It's probably a non-starter for everybody, as literally nobody has suggested it.  There is one person in this thread suggesting that there should be parity in pay, but that's the extent of it.

10 hours ago, baileynme said:

If the married guy in your squadron isn’t sharing the load then that’s your leaderships fault. Saying BAH needs to be changed because your ADOs/DO/CC aren’t managing people well is a pretty big stretch.

The word "change" suggests dissimilarity.  We're already there.  A more appropriate word for what I'm suggesting would be "same".

10 hours ago, baileynme said:

 Notice your base pay is the same, that’s because your doing the same job. BAH has nothing to do how much work your doing, it is merely the fact that your married, so you probably need a bigger house. Sorry for the further thread derail, just had to say my peace.

Thanks for making my point for me.  Everybody is doing the same job.   Except w/dependent members have more deposited into their bank account at the end of the month.  You need a big house for your family and think DoD should help you out with that?  Since when did that become your employers problem?  Name one other job on the planet that would supplement your pay explicitly because a couple of meat sacks fell out from between your wife's legs.  What about the single guy who needs a room for his pool table and a 3 car garage for his ATVs and Vette?  Should DoD accommodate his lifestyle with supplemental pay also?  Unless you're prepared to say yes, just admit that you like your entitlement and will resist any attempt to take it from you. 

Although this is an inconsequential contributor to the overall problem, that attitude (which is pervasive, unfortunately), will be the eventual death of this country.  As long as I get mine..

Lets see if you guys can get this post up to 20 trillion downvotes to match the national debt that has resulted from every entitlement beneficiary in the country raising hell with their representatives anytime it's suggested that their specific entitlement shouldn't be kept around.  I just hope that I'm worm food before we get our comeuppance. 

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So...that was aggressive.

Anyway, here’s my plan:

Revamp the pay scale more along the lines of the General Schedule.

Each rank is allotted a set base pay.

This pay includes consideration of housing - much like any normal civilian pay scale.

Base pay is multiplied by a percentage based on your location. Everyone gets a multiplier - might be .1% if you love in Bum, but you get a COLA regardless.

Retirement is based on high 3 plus the national average of COLA.

Only base pay (no multiplier) is taxable.

All AD (or ANG/AFRC on AD orders for that year) get a 5% reduction in tax rate once taxable income is calculated.

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1 hour ago, Mark1 said:

Seriously guys, just admit that you like your entitlement and that they'll have to rip those Obama phones out of your cold dead hands and then we can leave it alone.  But don't try to explain it away logically.  The feeble, reaching, attempts are desperate and that's not a good look.

You pick up the shitty duty, and they get paid more.  I see the give, but where's the take again?

Happens every day.

Um, yeah.  It's probably a non-starter for everybody, as literally nobody has suggested it.  There is one person in this thread suggesting that there should be parity in pay, but that's the extent of it.

The word "change" suggests dissimilarity.  We're already there.  A more appropriate word for what I'm suggesting would be "same".

Thanks for making my point for me.  Everybody is doing the same job.   Except w/dependent members have more deposited into their bank account at the end of the month.  You need a big house for your family and think DoD should help you out with that?  Since when did that become your employers problem?  Name one other job on the planet that would supplement your pay explicitly because a couple of meat sacks fell out from between your wife's legs.  What about the single guy who needs a room for his pool table and a 3 car garage for his ATVs and Vette?  Should DoD accommodate his lifestyle with supplemental pay also?  Unless you're prepared to say yes, just admit that you like your entitlement and will resist any attempt to take it from you. 

Although this is an inconsequential contributor to the overall problem, that attitude (which is pervasive, unfortunately), will be the eventual death of this country.  As long as I get mine..

Lets see if you guys can get this post up to 20 trillion downvotes to match the national debt that has resulted from every entitlement beneficiary in the country raising hell with their representatives anytime it's suggested that their specific entitlement shouldn't be kept around.  I just hope that I'm worm food before we get our comeuppance. 

Who’s the entitled one in this thread? Probably the one posting too-long-to-read whining diatribes about F-ing fairness.  Grow up.  Merry Christmas, by the way.

Edited by flyusaf83
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for most people that have a family, few things are more important. when you have dependents, many of your values and choices are different than they'd be if you are single. those choices tend to be more measured, more conservative, and less motivated by self-interest. the above example of a single guy owning a garage full of atvs and a corvette supports this. 

every civilization every nation and therefore our af benefits from a large proportion of its members having the characteristics of a person "with dependents".  there's nothing wrong with being single, but having a family brings balance to the force, is critical, and should be rewarded.

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11 hours ago, Mark1 said:

Seriously guys, just admit that you like your entitlement and that they'll have to rip those Obama phones out of your cold dead hands and then we can leave it alone.  But don't try to explain it away logically.  The feeble, reaching, attempts are desperate and that's not a good look.

You pick up the shitty duty, and they get paid more.  I see the give, but where's the take again?

Happens every day.

Um, yeah.  It's probably a non-starter for everybody, as literally nobody has suggested it.  There is one person in this thread suggesting that there should be parity in pay, but that's the extent of it.

The word "change" suggests dissimilarity.  We're already there.  A more appropriate word for what I'm suggesting would be "same".

Thanks for making my point for me.  Everybody is doing the same job.   Except w/dependent members have more deposited into their bank account at the end of the month.  You need a big house for your family and think DoD should help you out with that?  Since when did that become your employers problem?  Name one other job on the planet that would supplement your pay explicitly because a couple of meat sacks fell out from between your wife's legs.  What about the single guy who needs a room for his pool table and a 3 car garage for his ATVs and Vette?  Should DoD accommodate his lifestyle with supplemental pay also?  Unless you're prepared to say yes, just admit that you like your entitlement and will resist any attempt to take it from you. 

Although this is an inconsequential contributor to the overall problem, that attitude (which is pervasive, unfortunately), will be the eventual death of this country.  As long as I get mine..

Lets see if you guys can get this post up to 20 trillion downvotes to match the national debt that has resulted from every entitlement beneficiary in the country raising hell with their representatives anytime it's suggested that their specific entitlement shouldn't be kept around.  I just hope that I'm worm food before we get our comeuppance. 

Jeeeezus.....but at least we know where you stand. 

1) BAH should be the same. Increase all rates to th w/dependent amounts and be done with it. 

2) BAH has always been this way. Comparing to other jobs is irrelevant. Name another job that forces fathers to go and die in their country’s wars. Incentive pays to keep fathers (and mothers) in the fight longer. Otherwise we are just sending our single men (and women) to die. Yes, I realize war isn’t the same nowadays. 

3) BAH is pennies. That Congress is willing to screw with pennies while billions are wasted elsewhere under corrupt circumstances is telling. 

4) You can quit the line of BS that married don’t carry their weight. Not sure what your life and professional experience has been but with some exceptions I’m willing to bet that most married men and women do their equal share. If you have experienced otherwise I’m sorry. But like I said before there are enough times where I’ve covered for singles at high personal cost that I basically don’t agree with your complaint. 

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