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Electronic flight bags could boost operational safety, effectiveness

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...but we all know they'll buy a less capable POS from the lowest bidder owned by a minority chick.

Hate to admit it but your probably right...it will be hard for the program office to justify a brand name purchase (iPad) when you have so much competition out there.....unless the correct software is only available to certain devices, or the justification could be written that only brand X tablet processes fast enough to respond within a certain limit during EP's, etc... that might be a saving grace....

Then you could buy iPads from the POS minority chick owned small business

Edit:

My buddy(C-21 pilot) just sent me this:

http://www.aviationt...leet_74793.html

Edited by MattS

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Can you use the GPS to display your current position on a sectional or approach plate? That would be cool.

I've seen it work with Sectionals but not approach plates. The only problem I noted with the Sectionals was the trying to reference points on the ground from FL350 but it was still very, very cool.

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ThreeHoler, this might be a dumb question, but what exactly do you guys use it for, other than "hey, this is really cool!" Is it just the better SA that comes with having a moving map? Or do you use it for more than that? Considering they're not officially approved for use in the cockpit....I'm just imagining a pilot standing in front of an accident investigation board saying "well, my ipad told me the localizer frequncy was 123.69, but it turns out they updated it to 169.23 and I didn't have my charts out cause the ipad is always right..."

Edited by LoneWolf121188
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Previously, we used it for worldwide ops, under specific command guidance authorizing their use.

However, it is a great SA tool right now, due to FAA/USAF considerations. While I'm not an AIS nerd who can point out all the teeny tiny errors in Jepp plates, I can give my experience using them: the only incorrect plate I've had was a DoD plate and the Jepp plate was right.

People will shout things down until they've actually tried them.

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People will shout things down until they've actually tried them.

Shack.

I remember when fighter guys said NVGs were stupid and not worth wearing before they had ever even tried them on.

The dimmest setting on the iPad is a little too bright in some instances but it can get dimmed down pretty well within the application software. ANVIS compatble? probably not.

That's what a sheet of Glendale Green is for.

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Interesting factoids from Gen. Johns at a deployed location; the iPad (with case and window mount as he wants to buy it) will cost about $735 per crew member, same as a pair of boots and a flight suit. Total cost comes in around 10 mil (for AMC), and the part that really sells it to the shoes? The fuel savings alone will recoup the costs in six months. Also, another of his goals is to keep it from being like issued Blackberries (aka completely locked up). If he gets us iPads he will try to keep them as unlocked as possible, we'll see how long that lasts.

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ThreeHoler, this might be a dumb question, but what exactly do you guys use it for, other than "hey, this is really cool!" Is it just the better SA that comes with having a moving map? Or do you use it for more than that? Considering they're not officially approved for use in the cockpit....I'm just imagining a pilot standing in front of an accident investigation board saying "well, my ipad told me the localizer frequncy was 123.69, but it turns out they updated it to 169.23 and I didn't have my charts out cause the ipad is always right..."

In the 130J community we have moving maps for JOGs and such. Mostly used for tac. For other flying, it's a great SA builder because we can overlay our position and our flight plan. I'd imagine the iPad moving map would be similar. Mostly just an SA builder, and a way to keep organized.

As for your frequency dilemma, I'd imaging that we would be backing up our iPad for a while. Similar to how we still back up GPS with ground based nav-aids. (Is that still done in most communities? Our GPS isn't certified so we have to back it up to be legal).

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We are allowed willy-nilly RNAV substitution in the 10.

Edit: fucking iPad autocorrect. Truly the only LIMFAC of this device.

Edited by ThreeHoler

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I'm a Beta testor for the new NGA FLIP app and will post a few screen shots and such after figuring it all out. Downloading and installing everything in the next few days

Discovered that iOS 5.x or greater is mandatory upon first installation attempt.

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We are allowed willy-nilly RNAV substitution in the 10.

Edit: ######ing iPad autocorrect. Truly the only LIMFAC of this device.

Settings > General > Keyboard > Auto-Correct: OFF

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$735 per crew member, same as a pair of boots and a flight suit.

What the hell kind of boots are you getting? I know flight suit costs are getting stupid, but those must be some hella boots.

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Interesting factoids from Gen. Johns at a deployed location; the iPad (with case and window mount as he wants to buy it) will cost about $735 per crew member, same as a pair of boots and a flight suit. Total cost comes in around 10 mil (for AMC), and the part that really sells it to the shoes? The fuel savings alone will recoup the costs in six months. Also, another of his goals is to keep it from being like issued Blackberries (aka completely locked up). If he gets us iPads he will try to keep them as unlocked as possible, we'll see how long that lasts.

Hell, our base spends close to $50k a year on printing safety supplements and checklist changes... There is a lot of savings out there using these devices. My 3500 page T.O. has to be expensive to print. I think we totaled the weight of the pubs on a C-5 at somewhere in the 175 to 200 pound range and that is not counting the 52 volumes (3" binders) of maintenance T.O.s we carry as well.

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Hell, our base spends close to $50k a year on printing safety supplements and checklist changes... There is a lot of savings out there using these devices. My 3500 page T.O. has to be expensive to print. I think we totaled the weight of the pubs on a C-5 at somewhere in the 175 to 200 pound range and that is not counting the 52 volumes (3" binders) of maintenance T.O.s we carry as well.

American Airlines put out an estimate that removing the 35lb kit bags and replacing them with 1.5lb iPads would save in the neighborhood of $1.2 million dollars per year in fuel costs.

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American Airlines put out an estimate that removing the 35lb kit bags and replacing them with 1.5lb iPads would save in the neighborhood of $1.2 million dollars per year in fuel costs.

Is that $1.2M savings after the purchase of the ~$500 iPads?

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American Airlines put out an estimate that removing the 35lb kit bags and replacing them with 1.5lb iPads would save in the neighborhood of $1.2 million dollars per year in fuel costs.

The USAF dumps more fuel in one week to make the cost savings from fuel savings irrelevant. I think the true cost savings will come from reduced paper purchase and consumption. Heck, the base recycling contract could shrink as well if ops doesn't have to recycle FLIP every month or so.

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I have no idea how they calculated savings with the iPads, they just said $1.2 million in fuel. Not sure how much could be saved with no longer purchasing Jepps. I think Jepps charges for information, not paper. Not printing paper ops manuals will save a ton. One direction I haven't heard mentioned at the airline is moving away from printing flight plans which includes route, notams, takeoff data, and weather. If that information could be linked into the iPad, the savings on paper, printers, and ink would be huge.

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When the CMSgt of the Air Force visited our squadron he talked about how the Air Force was trying to look into a way to be able to put all Air Force training materials on a kindle like device. He said that Airman would issued a Kindle and could expect to get all training manuals, CDCs, and anything else that is usually printed out on the Kindle. He said the Air Force is doing research and is trying to make the requirements for it. They are also trying to find out what company is going to give them the best deal on the electronic reader. He made it seem like it was in the works to be implemented soon.

I know it is a little off topic but it adds to the Air Force trying to get rid of having to pay so much for paper and printing when the electronic solutions are so much cheaper.

Edited to add: It would be awesome to be issued a device with all Air Force AFIs and AF Forms already loaded on it. It would save so much time for frontline supervisors.

Edited by one

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Edited to add: It would be awesome to be issued a device with all Air Force AFIs and AF Forms already loaded on it. It would save so much time for frontline supervisors.

They already are. It's called AFPUBS.

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When the CMSgt of the Air Force visited our squadron he talked about how the Air Force was trying to look into a way to be able to put all Air Force training materials on a kindle like device. He said that Airman would issued a Kindle and could expect to get all training manuals, CDCs, and anything else that is usually printed out on the Kindle. He said the Air Force is doing research and is trying to make the requirements for it. They are also trying to find out what company is going to give them the best deal on the electronic reader. He made it seem like it was in the works to be implemented soon.

I know it is a little off topic but it adds to the Air Force trying to get rid of having to pay so much for paper and printing when the electronic solutions are so much cheaper.

Edited to add: It would be awesome to be issued a device with all Air Force AFIs and AF Forms already loaded on it. It would save so much time for frontline supervisors.

E-ink readers like the kindle in their current form are not ideal for viewing afis and tech orders. The screens are too small to display a full size pdf at a readable size, and the slow processor and refresh rate make searching for text cumbersome. A full-on tablet offers a much better experience.

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They already are. It's called AFPUBS.

Where I work, we have about 1 NIPR for every 100 people. It would be nice not to have to wait in line for an hour to get to AF Forms and AFI pubs just to reference something real quick while at work.

E-ink readers like the kindle in their current form are not ideal for viewing afis and tech orders. The screens are too small to display a full size pdf at a readable size, and the slow processor and refresh rate make searching for text cumbersome. A full-on tablet offers a much better experience.

I agree but I do not think that the Air Force will spend that much for every enlisted person in the Air Force. Maybe a cheaper tablet but not an IPAD quality tablet.

Edited by one

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So I haven't loaded the whole, new FLIP library yet, but will soon. Just got the NGA App installed upon my iPad 2 after updating to iOS 5 (app requirement).

(edit: this would've been so much easier with Gallery permissions...)

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Edited by Swizzle

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I'll post a review of the app after testing it on a few missions.

My first request would be to integrate the FCG if DoS wants to play. Ramstein uses the FCG alot being OCONUS based, but can someone say how often CONUS based airlifters use it - especially heavie?

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I'll post a review of the app after testing it on a few missions.

My first request would be to integrate the FCG if DoS wants to play. Ramstein uses the FCG alot being OCONUS based, but can someone say how often CONUS based airlifters use it - especially heavie?

As an AC in the 17 (McChord 08-10) I would reference it going to non-standard locations (which didn't happen very often for me) but nonetheless I think it would be a good addition to the app. Even better would be integration of Jeppesen SDP and Ops Data if that were possible...

Edited by bucky60k

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I have no idea how they calculated savings with the iPads, they just said $1.2 million in fuel. Not sure how much could be saved with no longer purchasing Jepps. I think Jepps charges for information, not paper. Not printing paper ops manuals will save a ton. One direction I haven't heard mentioned at the airline is moving away from printing flight plans which includes route, notams, takeoff data, and weather. If that information could be linked into the iPad, the savings on paper, printers, and ink would be huge.

Sure, the AF will realize a reasonable amount of savings by ditching paper FLIP in printing costs and not having to haul a 69 pound FLIP kit. The real savings comes from shipping a metric shit-ton of FLIP every month or two. I was talking to a Crew COMM guy when the last shipment arrived and it weighed around 4,000 pounds and was shipped two-day UPS. My iPhone cost $69 for two-day UPS, I can't imagine how much 4,000 pounds cost. Fuel is expensive, but so is UPS.

While I am not a fan of FLIP on an iPad and would prefer old-school paper FLIP, I would support going to electronic FLIP, etc to keep more of our jets in the air and more of our bros in Big Blue.

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