Jump to content
ClearedHot

Electronic flight bags could boost operational safety, effectiveness

Recommended Posts

Someone explain this ADS-B out stuff to me.

 

I have a new IFF with Mode 5 in the jet. It requires me to be tracking satellites before I turn it on. Does this perform the same function?

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Someone explain this ADS-B out stuff to me.

 

I have a new IFF with Mode 5 in the jet. It requires me to be tracking satellites before I turn it on. Does this perform the same function?

 

 

 

 

 

Not likely unless it has Mode 5 Level 2B.

 

In a nutshell Mode 5 is the replacement for Mode 4 since NSA depreciated it and no longer will provide codes for it soon.

 

But it is possible someone actually ordered something with M5L2-B.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/24/2017 at 7:41 AM, AZwildcat said:

What does it do for you?  Nothing.  Raytheon proprietary, can't tap into it, won't tell you where you are, can't use it for navigation...because it wasn't in the contract. But hey you'll have ADS-B out so everyone except you will know where you are.  Fantastic.

After reading this, I had to go back and make sure this post wasn't in the "WTF" section of BO.net.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, HuggyU2 said:

After reading this, I had to go back and make sure this post wasn't in the "WTF" section of BO.net.  

Meh.

Probably cost $50k+ ($120k+ in gub'mint dollars) a copy to give a useable display, which would probably end up less useful than the garmin slapped into the light bracket.  Unless it's going to include a poor man's datalink via the ADS-B interaction with the rest of the Red side, then why bother?  It fulfills the fed's requirement and keeps the trains running on time.

Not to mention, any talk of an upgrade could increase the threat of a "PMP upgrade".  Yeah, nah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why are we worrying about ADS-B out on mil jets? Why do we spend one cent on NextGen/GATM/CNS-ATM/1801/EABOD compliance versus spending miney on mission equipment? Because we will "not be legal" in whatever host nation were pandering to?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/20/2017 at 7:41 PM, AZwildcat said:

Aero App sucks...and NGA wonders why ForeFlight is far and away their number one app on the NGA app store.  DOD just needs to pay ForeFlight to make a Mil version of their app and put in all the features we want.

If the Jepp charts weren’t on the Aero app would you use it?  What’s the point?  You guys have talked about wanting a military-specific platform... what do you want?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW,  agree with you’re opinion of the Aero App... I wouldn’t want my guys using a second-class platform for SA when there’s so much better capes out there!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why are we worrying about ADS-B out on mil jets? Why do we spend one cent on NextGen/GATM/CNS-ATM/1801/EABOD compliance versus spending miney on mission equipment? Because we will "not be legal" in whatever host nation were pandering to?


Because it is Public Law (ADS-B Out). Because the FAA continues to hold fast on “no military exemptions.” Because of denial to operate in US Class A, B, and C airspace. The list goes on.

Military aircraft that were not properly equipped for airspace they were filed/flying through have already been diverted/rerouted. It will only get worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Because it is Public Law (ADS-B Out). Because the FAA continues to hold fast on “no military exemptions.” Because of denial to operate in US Class A, B, and C airspace. The list goes on.

Military aircraft that were not properly equipped for airspace they were filed/flying through have already been diverted/rerouted. It will only get worse.

 

Well I suppose the U-2 is ok, as long as it is "allowed" to transit through it.

Still don't understand why the military has to beg for waivers from the FAA nerdery.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're still going to run into issues with ICAO. Good luck getting to the AOR when you can't transit the airspace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/25/2017 at 8:23 AM, HuggyU2 said:

After reading this, I had to go back and make sure this post wasn't in the "WTF" section of BO.net.  

Right!  If you really think about it, 95% of the conversations here could be funneled into the WTF section.

On 11/25/2017 at 8:59 AM, BFM this said:

Meh.

Probably cost $50k+ ($120k+ in gub'mint dollars) a copy to give a useable display, which would probably end up less useful than the garmin slapped into the light bracket.  Unless it's going to include a poor man's datalink via the ADS-B interaction with the rest of the Red side, then why bother?  It fulfills the fed's requirement and keeps the trains running on time.

Not to mention, any talk of an upgrade could increase the threat of a "PMP upgrade".  Yeah, nah.

It's all a band aid.  The new IFF will go in the same place as the old IFF, so I'm sure all that water that comes out of the air vent won't be a problem at all...

And yeah ADAIR is the big driver for the T-38A in ACC as they have most of the jets.  They don't have any interest in the C model mostly because of the PMP mod.  Worse performance in the airspace, shorter sortie duration.  What they really want is more A models until T-X or ADAIR-X or whatever can replace it.  Basically zero chance of PMPing the remaining A/B models.  I would think a low cost avionics upgrade using COTS products would be a drop in the bucket and a no brainer.  Hell just steal what NASA already did, they've even offered up all their schematics to get the job done.  I guess for now we have to be happy with  the "Dual UHF upgrade"...if you can call it an upgrade.  More like a Radio Shack weekend project.

22 hours ago, TheJuice said:

If the Jepp charts weren’t on the Aero app would you use it?  What’s the point?  You guys have talked about wanting a military-specific platform... what do you want?

I want ForeFlight...but...I want more features and integration that are tactically useful.  ForeFlight is great, but their biggest customer is civilian and commercial aviation.  They are responsive to military needs but it's not their priority.  We get a great product for flying from A to B, but it COULD be a game changer if we could meld it with tactical overlays.  The interface, charting and overlays on ForeFlight is first rate, now imagine being able to lay down threats, blue force tracker, kill boxes, targeting coords/imagery, whatever you want.  If we could have a MIL ForeFlight product that adapts and gets better at the rate the commercial app does but feature wise is catered to Military, capable of going classified and all that, you'd have an awesome tool.  Instead of throwing money at something like Aero App how about not re-inventing the wheel and work out a contract with the best COTS product which is ForeFlight.  The speed, innovation, adaptability of a commercial product tailored to meet operational and security needs of the military.  Maybe it's a pipe dream but if I was king, that's what I would do.

14 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

Well I suppose the U-2 is ok, as long as it is "allowed" to transit through it.

Still don't understand why the military has to beg for waivers from the FAA nerdery.

 Yeah there's a new INS and new IFF on the horizon for the deuce, not sure about meeting the 2020 deadline though.  The T-38A is actually not projected to meet the 2020 mandate either.  I believe the exact quote was "We hope they'll come through with a waiver" Hope is always a great strategy.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/24/2017 at 8:41 AM, AZwildcat said:

Yeah but that won't happen.  A polished turd is better than a turd at this point.  Randolph developed a pretty good model for an integrated checklist/in-flight guide PDF with touch buttons to navigate around.  Pay a civilian to update it for you every time a change comes out, easy enough.  That said, paper checklists aren't going to die nearly as soon as FLIP. 

Hi.  I am that civilian.  Diligently polishing the turd...

You'd be surprised regarding paper checklists.  When ACC sees the bill for this year's checklist revision for each of the 4 groups of F-16 pubs, they are going to want to get rid of paper as soon as each unit gets their EFBs up and running (which, I guess whatever is going on with Acronis needs to get resolved first).  I expect I'll get buy-in from the MAJCOMs to start slashing paper ID from ETIMS for checklists, and then, once all users have their EFBS, I can rescind the paper.  I'm hoping that day isn't more than 2 years in the future,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, stract said:

Hi.  I am that civilian.  Diligently polishing the turd...

You'd be surprised regarding paper checklists.  When ACC sees the bill for this year's checklist revision for each of the 4 groups of F-16 pubs, they are going to want to get rid of paper as soon as each unit gets their EFBs up and running (which, I guess whatever is going on with Acronis needs to get resolved first).  I expect I'll get buy-in from the MAJCOMs to start slashing paper ID from ETIMS for checklists, and then, once all users have their EFBS, I can rescind the paper.  I'm hoping that day isn't more than 2 years in the future,

Thankless work no doubt.  At least you guys are aware and trying to get ahead of the power curve.  I've been trying to get the U-2 flight manuals folks to add hyperlinks in the PDFs for a year now.  And yes once paper finally does go away it opens up lots of new possibilities for how flight manuals and checklists are constructed and displayed.  It would be great if ACC would throw money at developing an awesome checklist app or something like that but I'll believe it when I see it...like you eluded to once they realize that cost savings I'm sure that money will go somewhere else in a hurry.  I think we'll be stuck with PDFs for checklists for a while.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×