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Casket photo sparks outrage

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Posted

OVERREACTING......Seriously? Pound sand

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Posted

###### these muther######ers...............

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Posted

Time for General Schwartz to be retired. Our Air Force has lost its focus. Too many years at war and ops tempo while leadership and tone has been on service dress jackets, airline stripes, the color and name our our fatigues, a new AF logo, new PFT, new AF motto, new PT uniform, joint bases/everything, new AF chant, and PT civilian testers. And we're disrespecting our brothers and sisters who have given their last breath for our country with landfills and this atrocity. Our service right now can't be trusted with two very sacred acts...returning our heroes and handling nuclear weapons. Leadership has failed us.

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Posted

The NCOs should know better but the brand new A1Cs and below probably didn't know how ######ed up they were being. A brand new Airman might being ignorant but there is no excuse for anyone who has been in the military longer than a year.

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Posted

The NCOs should know better but the brand new A1Cs and below probably didn't know how ######ed up they were being. A brand new Airman might being ignorant but there is no excuse for anyone who has been in the military longer than a year.

I have several friends whose teenagers know better than this.

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Posted

not much else i can say, You all have it correct. These people have killed themselves literally. Time to go occupy Wall Street, we don't want you anymore !!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted (edited)

That is true but when you are a brand new AMN you tend to follow what the NCOs are doing. I have seen numerous occasions when the new airman gets made an example of in front of everyone and they slap the NCO's wrist behind a closed door for the exact same offense. I never understood it.

If an Airman messes up, there is always a NCO who could have stopped it.

Edited by one
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Posted

What do we expect? 95% of the Air Force hasn't been at war in the last 10 years. Unless you count the war against common sense that is waged daily by the shoe clerks. They don't understand or appreciate sacrifice because most of them haven't had to do it like we have. Missing kids births and birthdays, holidays, anniversaries is common for the rated folk and the other guys and gals who make it happen, yet scoffed at by the corporate Air Force.

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Posted

That is true but when you are a brand new AMN you tend to follow what the NCOs are doing. I have seen numerous occasions when the new airman gets made an example of in front of everyone and they slap the NCO's wrist behind a closed door for the exact same offense. I never understood it.

If an Airman messes up, there is always a NCO who could have stopped it.

Oh, I wasn't criticizing your post - mostly piling on...

And, speaking of "corporate AF", it seems most "support" functions are populated largely by civilians these days - many of whom don't give a crap.. For example, our LRS has civilian flight chiefs and it shows based on the condition of some deployment equipment I was recently issued and promptly rejected. Btw, I realize this is a generalization, so just saying'..

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Posted

Wow. Shameful.

This is a graduation picture of the newest class of Air Transportation (2T2X1) airman (not loggies, sorry for being a dick Toro). I had my picture taken behind that very same "C-130" four years ago. And I see my instructor in that picture.

Yup...graduated from that very same course back in 1998 at the Logistics Training Center at LAFB. Back when I was there, the instructors were a no bullshit kind of group. Looks like times have changed.

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Posted

Well, as expected...

Air Force: No criminal wrongdoing in ‘coffin’ photo

PHILIP CAULFIELD

Monday, January 30, 2012

Air Force investigators say that a group of airmen shown in a photo clowning around with a coffin like the ones used to transport America's war dead didn't commit a crime and wouldn't be prosecuted, according to a report in an Air Force newspaper.

The picture, taken at an Air Force training school in Fort Lee, Va., in August and leaked to the Air Force Times late last year, showed a group of fatigue-clad airmen posing around a comrade playing dead inside the casket.

The airman in the casket was wrapped in chains and had a noose around his neck.

The gathered airmen made 'X' signs with their arms, and a cryptic message scrawled on the photo said "Da Dumpt, Da Dumpt…Sucks 2 Be U."

The 16 airmen, a mix of junior staff and noncommissioned officers, were from Lackland Air Force Base, Tex., and were at Fort Lee training to load and unload military planes.

Air Force officials said an investigation found that the photo was meant as an inside joke about the dangers of loading and unloading cargo — not to mock fallen soldiers, the Air Force Times reported.

"The investigation indicated that the photo was intended by those who took it to remind the students that they could be killed if they failed to pay attention while loading and unloading aircraft," Air Force investigators said in statement.

The "Da Dumpt" message was meant as a reference to the sound cargo makes when it it's loaded into an aircraft, and the chains and the rope are used to secure the cargo, a spokesman told the Times.

The Times first reported on the investigation into the photo in December during a particularly sensitive time for the Air Force.

In November, the Washington Post reported that officials at the Dover Air Force base mortuary, the main point of entry for dead soldiers coming from overseas, had dumped cremated remains of some fallen heroes in a Virginia landfill.

Though there was no criminal wrongdoing, the 37th Training Wing at Lackland Air Force Base, which ordered the investigation, said the airmen in the photo received "administrative punishment" for their conduct, the Times said.

This from the same service that concluded in a different investigation "...had Haney not been distracted by trying to breathe, he would have recognized the unusual attitude..." :bash:

Pathetic.

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Posted

Wow... just WOW!!! I can say two things about these ass clowns and the "findings" from Big Blue...

1) I have been moving cargo for my entire career. We definitely use chains and cargo straps to tie stuff down, but I have yet to see rope ever used for anything. Not sure the noose is an approved tie down method for anything for port dawgs or loadmasters!!!

2) If these guys want to joke about this stuff then maybe they need to add a little field trip 4 hrs up the road from Ft Lee to Dover to see what goes on up there. They wouldn't even have to schedule it, just drive up there on any given day and wait for the next hero to be flown home in a transfer case... it shouldn't take long as it tends to be a daily occurrence. Maybe these scum bags could get to see what I've seen far too many times standing on the DV parking spot in front of the Pax Terminal. They could stand in a formation and watch the honor guard carry the flag draped transfer case down the ramp of the C-17. They could see if they had the military bearing to hold it together when the 5 yr old little girl watches them walk by and says to her young crying mother, "Is that Daddy?" The same little girl who won't have Daddy to tell her how proud he is of her at her high school graduation or walk her down the aisle at her wedding. Maybe they won't think its so funny when they see the 10 yr old boy with tears in his eyes salute his Dad when the honor guard passes by wondering who is going to teach him how to throw that curve ball this summer or take him on his camping trip. I wonder how funny they would think it was when they saw a bunch of Navy Seals or Delta Team do everything they can to hold it together as they see their best friends carried off... guys that were killed standing right next to them days before.

This is what happens when AF Management puts some useless masters degree or the length of your socks in a PT uniform on their priority list. I too am “obviously displeased” by what you feel is important these days Big Blue!!!

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Posted

I don't think the casket picture is even remotely acceptable, but are you fellas seriously saying it is a crime?

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Posted

Well put, Rusty. Those cases are not props for your stupid fucking "class photo" after your two-week or however long tech school. They are transfer cases used to carry heroes from the battlefield back home.

It was inappropriate. People have been booted out of the AF for less, and for things that gained a hell of a lot less publicity than this thing.

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Posted

I don't think it was a criminal. I do, however, think it is reprehensible and should result in immediate less than honorable discharge.

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Posted

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Too bad epic stupidity like this isn't terminal...

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Posted

If these guys want to joke about this stuff then maybe they need to add a little field trip 4 hrs up the road from Ft Lee to Dover to see what goes on up there. They wouldn't even have to schedule it, just drive up there on any given day and wait for the next hero to be flown home in a transfer case... it shouldn't take long as it tends to be a daily occurrence. Maybe these scum bags could get to see what I've seen far too many times standing on the DV parking spot in front of the Pax Terminal. They could stand in a formation and watch the honor guard carry the flag draped transfer case down the ramp of the C-17. They could see if they had the military bearing to hold it together when the 5 yr old little girl watches them walk by and says to her young crying mother, "Is that Daddy?" The same little girl who won't have Daddy to tell her how proud he is of her at her high school graduation or walk her down the aisle at her wedding. Maybe they won't think its so funny when they see the 10 yr old boy with tears in his eyes salute his Dad when the honor guard passes by wondering who is going to teach him how to throw that curve ball this summer or take him on his camping trip. I wonder how funny they would think it was when they saw a bunch of Navy Seals or Delta Team do everything they can to hold it together as they see their best friends carried off... guys that were killed standing right next to them days before.

Sounds like a great "administrative punishment" for all involved. Being sure to put the "NCOs" upfront to answer those questions. The SEALS and DELTA operators can handle this situation in their own unique ways I'm sure. That should fix the problem permanently.

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Posted

I don't think the casket picture is even remotely acceptable, but are you fellas seriously saying it is a crime?

Yes, it is a crime against decency and common sense. It was an idiotic thing to do and as has already been pointed out, a lot of people have been drummed out of the USAF who haven't done anything nearly as stupid...

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Posted

Wow... just WOW!!! I can say two things about these ass clowns and the "findings" from Big Blue...

1) I have been moving cargo for my entire career. We definitely use chains and cargo straps to tie stuff down, but I have yet to see rope ever used for anything. Not sure the noose is an approved tie down method for anything for port dawgs or loadmasters!!!

2) If these guys want to joke about this stuff then maybe they need to add a little field trip 4 hrs up the road from Ft Lee to Dover to see what goes on up there. They wouldn't even have to schedule it, just drive up there on any given day and wait for the next hero to be flown home in a transfer case... it shouldn't take long as it tends to be a daily occurrence. Maybe these scum bags could get to see what I've seen far too many times standing on the DV parking spot in front of the Pax Terminal. They could stand in a formation and watch the honor guard carry the flag draped transfer case down the ramp of the C-17. They could see if they had the military bearing to hold it together when the 5 yr old little girl watches them walk by and says to her young crying mother, "Is that Daddy?" The same little girl who won't have Daddy to tell her how proud he is of her at her high school graduation or walk her down the aisle at her wedding. Maybe they won't think its so funny when they see the 10 yr old boy with tears in his eyes salute his Dad when the honor guard passes by wondering who is going to teach him how to throw that curve ball this summer or take him on his camping trip. I wonder how funny they would think it was when they saw a bunch of Navy Seals or Delta Team do everything they can to hold it together as they see their best friends carried off... guys that were killed standing right next to them days before.

This is what happens when AF Management puts some useless masters degree or the length of your socks in a PT uniform on their priority list. I too am “obviously displeased” by what you feel is important these days Big Blue!!!

2

Well said. I am rapidly losing faith in Big Blue's ability to conduct investigations and reach sensible conclusions these days.

First the outlandish findings of the Elmo F-22 AIB (breathing is only a distraction not to be put above recognizing an unusual attitude?)...now this.

WTFO.

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Posted

I don't think the casket picture is even remotely acceptable, but are you fellas seriously saying it is a crime?

I have stood by while caskets were loaded downrange on their way back home many times during the early days at Bagram, including Jason Cunningham. Grown men (TF 11 badasses) totally breaking down.

Aside from being stupid, this is an amazingly disrespectful thing to do.

I went to flight school, not law school so I can't answer the legal question. It is simple for me. They should be gone.

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Posted

It is simple for me. They should be gone.

Agreed.

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Posted (edited)

From the article...

...didn't commit a crime and wouldn't be prosecuted

Neither did the crew that preformed a non-probhitied 1 g maneuver in a certain twin engine plane but they'll meet an FEB to fight for their wings while these clowns get off scott free for an even greater lapse of "discipline"

Edited by M2
Next time don't make it appear those were my words, they were from the article I posted...
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Posted

I still fail to see how people stick to the claim that an aileron roll is a "non-prohibited" maneuver in a transport category aircraft.

FEB? Sounds like a reasonable consequence for a pilot's lack of sound judgment.

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Posted

Neither did the crew that preformed a non-probhitied 1 g maneuver in a certain twin engine plane but they'll meet an FEB to fight for their wings while these clowns get off scott free for an even greater lapse of "discipline"

Are you really comparing rolling an airplane with other crew members on board to these jackasses taking a stupid picture?

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